Don’t Judge Islam by Acts of a Few

As an Egyptian Muslim living and working in the West, I am keenly aware of the growing tensions afflicting Western-Islamic … Continued

As an Egyptian Muslim living and working in the West, I am keenly aware of the growing tensions afflicting Western-Islamic relations. Contributing to these tensions is the western assumption that somehow Islam, as a faith and as a way of life encourages or at least tolerates violence as a means of achieving political, spiritual or other objectives. This is in stark contrast to the prevailing view shared by one billion followers of Islam who see themselves as peaceful adherents of a great faith who have been the victims of western exploitation and domination over the years.

Addressing this schism necessitates dispelling the myth that an entire faith can be so simplistically held responsible for the evils of terrorism and violence. Propagating such a fallacy serves no one. The crimes of crusaders should not be attributed to the core philosophy of Christianity just as the violence of modern day Muslim radicals should not be the term of reference for judging the Islamic faith.

The Quran, the sayings of the prophet and the legal construction developed by Muslim scholars over the years, collectively shape the framework of Islamic thought and practice and spell out in unambiguous terms the Peaceful compassionate, nature of Islam. This is what one billion Muslims believe in.

A few radical Muslims along with many in the West seem to share a common tactic. They intentionally interpret texts out of context and claim that that is what Islam represents. Neither should be allowed to impose their distorted reading nor to define this great faith.

A sober, scientific discussion encompassing, inter-alia, the three Abrahamic faiths, may lead to a better understanding of the realities and the nuances surrounding this vital issue.

Nabil Fahmy has been ambassador of the Arab Republic of Egypt to the United States since October 1999. He also has served as Egypt’s Ambassador to Japan. He received his bachelor’s degree in physics/mathematics from the American University in Cairo in 1974 and his Master’s in management in 1976.

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  • Glen

    The big difference is that in the US we practice a robust freedom of religion. Thomas Jefferson was the father of freedom of religion and here is what he had to say about religious leaders: “History, I believe, furnishes no example of a priest-ridden people maintaining a free civil government”, and, “In every country and in every age, the priest has been hostile to liberty. He is always in alliance with the despot, abetting his abuses in return for protection to his own.” It does not matter if the priest is called an Imam or if he is called a preacher or a Rabbi; you have to get them out of government. This is the problem in Iran, Saudi Arabia, and virtually every Islamic nation in the world. You have religious leaders meddling in government. You have laws that discriminate against religions other than Islam. You have thugs who kill Christians for distributing Bibles. To protect their positions of power you have Islamic religious leaders not only approving of violence but supporting violence, if it promotes their ideology. You want to change this? Then advocate robust freedom of religion and separation of Church and state in all Islamic nations. Advocate real freedom of religion the allows Christians to operate freely on the streets in Iran. Be a Jefferson to the Islamic world and stop living in the past.

  • frank collins

    acts of a few? why do you islamics constantly lie about history and your religion? i dont understadn it. is it cultural? do you think no one will actually read the koran and the hadith? do you think we dont see islamic violence in the name of islam every day? or do you just think we are all stupid and we just accept a lie if you repeat it often enough?well here is what the koran demands, and this is not an inclusive list – just a few.”4.90″: Except those who reach a people between whom and you there is an alliance, or who come to you, their hearts shrinking from fighting you or fighting their own people; and if Allah had pleased, He would have given them power over you, so that they should have certainly fought you; therefore if they withdraw from you and do not fight you and offer you peace, then Allah has not given you a way against them. “4.91”: You will find others who desire that they should be safe from you and secure from their own people; as often as they are sent back to the mischief they get thrown into it headlong; therefore if they do not withdraw from you, and (do not) offer you peace and restrain their hands, then seize them and kill them wherever you find them; and against these We have given you a clear authority. here is what islam did prior to the crusades:The first Crusade began in 1095… 460 years after the first Christian city was overrun by Muslim armies, 457 years after Jerusalem was conquered by Muslim armies, 453 years after Egypt was taken by Muslim armies, 443 after Muslims first plundered Italy, 427 years after Muslim armies first laid siege to the Christian capital of Constantinople, 380 years after Spain was conquered by Muslim armies, 363 years after France was first attacked by Muslim armies, 249 years after Rome itself was sacked by a Muslim army, and only after centuries of church burnings, killings, enslavement and forced conversions of Christians.here is the love of islam with indians:here is a outline of the love and peace showered on india by their peace loving islamic brothers. a good number of these accounts have come from the writings of ISLAMIC writers extoling the victory [?] over the lowly hindus: the Islamic invasion actually attempted to decimate the Indian religions of Dharma and the Culture of Bhaaratvarsha, but they did not succeed. (From the accounts of arikh-i-Yamini of Utbi the secretary of Mahmud of Gaznavi) talking about killing indians and battles.Around 1140, the Islamized Turko-Mongol chiefs of the Shansabanid tribe occupied Ghor in Afghanistan. Initially it was a vassal of the Ghaznavid Sultans, but around 1130 it came into conflict with them, after one of the leading Shansabanid nobles was murdered by the Ghaznavid Sultan, Bahram. A ferocious war ensued between the Sultans of Ghor and Ghazni, till Alla-ud-din Ghori invaded Ghazni with his entire cavalry and wrested it from Bahram. Alla-ud-din sacked the Indian spoils that Mahmud had placed there, massacred the city’s population in a 7-day killing spree and subsequently burnt it down. The next Ghaznavid Sultan, Khushro Maliq was driven out of Afghanistan by a coalition of Oghuz Turks and the Ghorids in 1157, and the Oghuz took Ghazni. The sons of Alla-ud-din, Ghiyas-ud-din Mu’azz-ud-din Ghori and Shihab-ud-din Muhammad Ghori defeated the Oghuz and annexed Ghazni in 1174. Ghiyas-ud-din, crowned himself Sultan, and appointed his brother Sultankalka. Shihab-ud-din was assigned the task of extending the kingdom to the East and he naturally gravitated towards India. 13 bloody campaigns that ravaged Northern India followed:• Early in 1175 he invaded Punjab and sacked and burned Uch…(1)• In 1178 he advanced south and marched towards Gujarat, but here the Indians acted quickly and rallying under the western chAlukya king MUlarAja II routed the Islamic forces completely forcing him to retreat…(2)• In 1179 Ghori sent a message to PrithivirAja chAhamAna to make common cause with him against the Chalukyas. Prithivaraj however, wise disregarding his foolish minister, kadambavAsa’s advise to make a common cause with Ghori, preemptively attacked NaDDula and reconquered it from the Moslems.• Shihab recovered in 1180 and invaded Sindh and ravaged the population carrying away much loot…(3)• Then Shihabuddin Muhammad, quickly followed it up in 1181 and 1184 with two invasions of Lavapura (Lahore) accompanied with much slaughter…(4+5)• In 1186 he invaded the Ghaznavid occupied Punjab and defeated the Sultan Khushro Maliq and wrested Punjab…(6)• 1188 The Ghur Sultankalka invaded the ChAhamAna kingdom and sacked the fort of Tabarhindah killing the Hindu male populace and raping the women. Hindu refugees flocked around Delhi alarming the ChAhamAnas…(7)• 1191 PrithivirAj advanced to meet Shihabuddin’s raid and routed him in the great battle of Tarai. While the Muslims suffered a crushing defeat, the Indians failed to butcher them to man and allowed Shihab to get away unharmed. He fled back to Central Asia leaving Punjab completely undefended…(8)• 1191 PrithivirAj attacked Tabarhindah and took it back from the Muslims. Here the biggest mistake of the Hindus was not to reconquer and arm Punjab suitably.• 1192 Shihab returned and sacked Tabarhindah again. This was followed by the second battle of Tarai, the ChAhamAna army was crushed and Prithiviraj was captured and brutally tortured to death…(9)• 1192 the Ghur Sultankalka made a second trust towards Ajayamerupura (Ajmer) and sacked it smashing Hindu temples and a Hindu university in course of this invasion. The Hindus captured in this expedition caused slave prices to fall to a few Dirhams in the Muslim markets…(10)• 1193 The sultankalka invaded Kannauj and slew the GAhadwala king Jayachandra. He followed this up with an invasion of vArANsipura slaughtering Hindus with great savagery and desecrating the holy city…(11+12)After this, his viceroy Kutub-ud-din (also his lover?) and the Turkish adventurer Ikhtiyaruddin Khalji furthered the violence of Islam in the land of Hind. Meanwhile Shihab’s brother died in Ghazna and he crowned himself Sultan and immediately launched himself into another Jihad on the infidels of Hindustan in 1206. The exact course of this campaign is not clear. While on the North-western reaches of the Sindhu, he was ambushed by the Khokar chiefs and shot down by an arrow…(13). Thus ended the carrier of the Moslem brigand who brought misery to the whole of northern India through his 13 invasions. Aurangazeb (1658 – 1707 )From: Maasi-i-AlamgiriIssued general order to destroy all centers of Hindu learnings including Varnasi and destroyed the temple at Mathura and renamed it as Islamabad Zahiru’d-Din Muhammed Babur (1526 – 1520 )From Baburnama, the Memoires of Babur Himself:Guru Nanak on Babur’s atrocities: On the condition of Hindu women in Babur’s monster rule: On the nature of Mughal rule under Babur:From an article by Dr. Harsh Narain on Muslim Testimony (Indian Express 2/26/90):Jahangir (1605 – 1628)Jahangir’s torture of Guru Arjun Dev ji: Guru was imprisoned at Lahore fort. He was chained to a post in an open place exposed to the sun from morning to evening in the summer months of May to June. Below his feet a heap of sand was put which burnt like a furnace. Boiling water was poured on his naked body at intervals. His body was covered with blisters all over. In this agony Guru used to utter. Tera Kiya Metha lage, naam padarath Nanak mange(whatever you ordain appears sweet. I supplicate for the gift of name)The Guru was ordercd to be executed. In addition a fine of Rupees two lakhs was imposed on him. Some historians say that, as a measure of clemency at the intervention of Mian Mir, this fine was imposed in lieu of the sentence of death. The Sikhs offered to pay the fine themselves but the Guru forbade them to do so. He replied to the Emperor, “Whatever money I have is for the poor, the friendless and the stranger. If thou ask for money thou mayest take what I have; but if thou ask for it by way of fine, I shall not give thee even a Kaurz (penny).” The Guru accepted death by torture.Shah Jahan (1658 – 1707)Shahjahan put enormous eonomic pressure on Hindus particularly peasents to become Muslims. The criminals too were forced to become Muslims. Source: Badshah Nama, Qazinivi & Badshah Nama , LahoriWhen Shuja was appointed as governor of Kabul he carried on a ruthless war in the Hindu territory beyond Indus…The sword of Islam yielded a rich crop of converts….Most of the women (to save their honour) burnt themselves to death. Those captured were distributed among Muslim Mansabdars.Source: Manucci, Storia do Mogor vol-II p.451 & Travels of Frey Sebastian ManriqueUnder Shahjahan peasents were compelled to sell their women and children to meet their revenue requirements….The peasents were carried off to various Markets and fairs to be sold with their poor unhappy wives carrying their small children crying and lamenting. According to Qaznivi Shahjagan had decreed they should be sold to Muslim lords. and here is what islamics did in 2006 to spread peace and the love of islam: and you can use the same link but make it 2005 and it works too: ” The List ” of Islamic Terror Attacks in 2006

  • Russell D.

    Frank:If you are such an expert when it comes to history, please give us some accounts of Christian wrongdoings. Can you? Do you want to? Or would that totally negate the point you are trying to make?And quit putting that dang list on every thread, it is annoying and slows up the page. You obviously don’t study FTP or HTML. Maybe you should look into that instead of polluting these threads with that long list.

  • rebel

    It amazes me no end that the most learned , pious so called scholars of Islam stay in the hedonistic , immoral , corrupt , profit taking , capitalist west. Isnt it hypocritical to preach your religion in US , UK , France , Germany and stop otherrs from preaching their religion in Egypt , Saudi Arabia , Iran , Afghanistan and Pakistan . Mr Nabil go back to your home and live amongst your fellow believers.

  • frank collins

    there are a lot of people who call themselves christians that have done some pretty vile things. but the difference is that when they do them they go against the teachings of christ and when an islamic does them, they are following the teachings of islam.” The List ” of Islamic Terror Attacks in 2005

  • rebel

    As an Indian and a Hindu who has not even harmed a fly in his life let me tell you first hand hand how these bastard muslims destroyed our golden bird nation in 500 years. Our best universities like Nalanda and takshshila comparable to harvards and whartons of today were raised to ground.Our people were enslaved and sold in central asian markets like dogs . The mountain range Hindu Kush in Afghanistan literaly means blood of Hindus because millions of Hindus were slaughtered there and after satiating their thirst and ruling us for 600 years and pushing us to dark ages these muslims partitioned our nation into 3 parts. India will never rise but remember America you are the golden bird of todays age. Nalandas and Takshshilas will never come back but Harvards and Whartons still remain. These Muslims are now targetting America with their bloodlust just as they targetted India but America is not India of 12th century – prosperous but militarily weak.America use your military force to defend yourself.

  • Anonymous

    Ok, I’m not trying to be mean, or argumentative at all; I have a genuine question. I understand when I see the Muslims write in here that we shouldn’t base our perceptions of all Muslims on what we see of the few extremists. I do get that. But, who are the Muslims we see on TV rioting and burning American flags? Are they part of the few extremists? I just get concerned about how many extremists there really are.

  • Danny B.

    You know, I tip-toed in here today to cancel my account with the Post. There is no way (at least not an obvious way) to do so. I would find a Hearst paper more credible at this point.I was surprised to see the posting by Mr Fahmy, a new voice for the Muslim side of the debate. Thank you sir, for your post.Gee, what a surprise! There’s Frank, straight away, with more garbage. Not even NEW garbage…thanks for clogging the pipes!Frank,I would ask if I can be “frank”, but I would rather just be candid now.I could scour the internet and compile all the instances of people being struck by lightning, or eaten alive by alligators/crocodiles and it would suddenly appear that it happens constantly.However, the odds of you (well, normal people) being struck by lightning are on a level with the odds you will win the lottery.You’ve been making the same point for weeks now, and I think everyone gets it. It’s old and stale. Your adamant unwillingness to engage in an actual civil debate only proves to me that your OPINIONS are pre-determined and that you only seek information that supports your ignorant preconceived bias.That is not scholarship.Ms. Taylor, Mr. Esposito, and Mr. Fahmy provide credentials as to why they are qualified to speak, as they do, on the subject at hand.You do not. You accuse them of all manner of things, lecture, and insult. That is the way extremists behave. A bit hypocriitical, wouldn’t you say?Are you speaking on behalf of someone? I am a Christian, Catholic, American, and many other things, but you certainly are not speaking on MY behalf. For that matter, you aren’t speaknig for anyone I actually know. Outside of cyber-space, you are like those idiots downtown that we cross the BOULEVARD to avoid!The only thing you should really be throwing out here, is a bottle with a note in it that says; SOS. You really could use some help.

  • frank collins

    i speak on my own behalf, and no one elses.

  • Michael Babcock

    As a Hindu, I concur with Rebel and also take note of the “lumping of Xtians and Jews” with Hindus in Frank’s post. Both Muslims and Christians have a history of blood and forced conversion on their hands, albeit the Xtians are less violent in their modern day approach. Islam IS a religion of violence and subjugation (most notably of their own women). Frank’s post is relevent in its length – The world should know that the “few” in Islam are really those who are trying to work for change.

  • Todd

    Frank please save your laundry list of violence. would you be swayed that christianity is a barabaric religion by a laundry list of atrocities from the old testament? from the occupation army in iraq? (i.e. HADITHA) Of course not.

  • nico

    religion of peace (TM) eh? Funny how they keep killing people, eh? real peaceful, huh?

  • Jeff Blaine

    What Mr. Collins fails to realize is that anyone could selectively go through the Bible and find passages that showJudaism and Christianity in a bad light, just as he has done with the Quran. Does the fact that Protestants and Catholics have spent decades killing each other in Northern Ireland invalidate all the teachings of Christianity? Certainly not. Mr. Collins exhibits the same intolerance of which he accuses all Muslims.

  • gregor

    May be the very concept of organized religion needs to be re-examined. People of course should be allowed to believe in whatever they want, just as they can find pleasure in whatever books they want to read or whatever movies they want to watch. But the state should not support religion of any form. History has given us ample evidence that organized religion causes more troubles that it’s worth, and it encourages people to be irrational in thought, dogmatic in belief, and infantile if not evil in action.

  • Dude

    I think the Muslims should have killed more Hindu’s, what a waste of human flesh those people are and they smell funny too.

  • JBE

    Here’s the problem.In the west if we see a terrorist (Tim McVeigh, the Unibomber Ted Kazinski for examples) we put them in jail or kill them while hunting them down.In the muslim world you say “its not all of us and besides you’ve been dominating us unfairly” and then do nothing.I have muslims in my immediate family who are good americans, good muslims, honest people, hard working, brilliant, loving, and sincere. They also make excuses for Hezbollah saying Nasrallah was “tricked” into attacking israel, kidnapping a soldier and launching 100 rockets into civillian neighborhoods in a single day. While I think the occupation is entirely Israels problem to fix, Nasrallah is a murderous liar and anathma to Allah’s peaceful desires for us.Stop making excuses, condemn violence and killing in the name of Allah… AND THEN TURN ON THE KILLERS – YES YOUR NEIGHBORS- THAT YOU KNOW ARE DOING THE EVIL IN THE NAME OF ALLAH.When I meet a criminal I turn them in to the authorities and send them to jail. Every time. And no, I don’t ask which party they belong to or religion they practice before I turn them in.

  • Jack

    Boy…this is a new definition on the term `Crusaders` If I remember correctly from my History, the Crusaders didn`t maim and kill their own daily for the cause, did they?

  • JBE

    Here’s the problem.In the west if we see a terrorist (Tim McVeigh, the Unibomber Ted Kazinski for examples) we put them in jail or kill them while hunting them down.In the muslim world you say “its not all of us and besides you’ve been dominating us unfairly” and then do nothing.I have muslims in my immediate family who are good americans, good muslims, honest people, hard working, brilliant, loving, and sincere. They also make excuses for Hezbollah saying Nasrallah was “tricked” into attacking israel, kidnapping a soldier and launching 100 rockets into civillian neighborhoods in a single day. While I think the occupation is entirely Israels problem to fix, Nasrallah is a murderous liar and anathma to Allah’s peaceful desires for us.Stop making excuses, condemn violence and killing in the name of Allah… AND THEN TURN ON THE KILLERS – YES YOUR NEIGHBORS- THAT YOU KNOW ARE DOING THE EVIL IN THE NAME OF ALLAH.When I meet a criminal I turn them in to the authorities and send them to jail. Every time. And no, I don’t ask which party they belong to or religion they practice before I turn them in.ALL GOOD AND TRUE MUSLIMS MUST SPEAK OUT LOUDER THAN THE KILLERS IN THEIR MIDST OR THEY ARE CONSIDERED TO BE IN TACIT APPROVAL OF THE KILLING BY THE REST OF THE ENTIRE WORLD.

  • Mohamed MALLECK, Swift Current, Canada

    Mr. Fahmy,Assalaamu-‘Alaikum wa Rahmatu’-Allahi wa Barakatuhu!You argue that the violence of modern day Muslim radicals should not be the terms of reference for judging the Islamic faith.Who are the ‘modern day Muslim radicals’? Since when did a critical mass of these radicals arise? Did the Governments of their countries of origin notice when these trends originally developed? Were there other supra-national or possibly even imperialist forces at work encouraging the formation of these radical groups possibly to harness their religious zeal or their greed or a combination of the two to, let say (but of course that is a supposition that is calumnious of the most enlightened country in the world), be cannon-fodder to drive the Soviets out of a strategically-located Muslim country that, additionally, would be instrumental in the geostrategic rivalries to control both the energy resources (gas and oil) of Central Asia, but also the pipelines to distribute these resources to consuming countries? Was-salaam.

  • Natan Amir

    First They’ll take Berlin and the World to follow.

  • Leni

    One hopes that the Muslim world is as Amb. Fahmy describes. But the constant news reports from around the world of Muslims attacking Muslims and others is building a very different image. It is far past the time when the silent majority must not only speak out but take action. Money to radical violent groups must stop flowing. Organize demonstrations that will be seen on TV around the world. Stop the teaching of hate in your schools and denying that it takes place. Yes, Christianity once behaved badly and was taken to a horrible low point during WWII. But it realized the terrible path it had taken and through Vatican II and the hard work of many lay and Church leaders in all denominations changed the course of the religion. It is LONG past the time for the believers of Islam to take the same hard stand to save their faith.

  • Caesar

    I don’t Judge Islam by Acts of a Few. The MAJORITY of Muslims do NOT speak UP, nor, STOP & OSTRACIZE their criminal, homicidal brethren, they are ENABLERS. I DO believe my lying eyes.

  • Brent

    Islam needs a reformation. One that separates church and state. In Iran, they just freed six men who killed anyone that they “thought” was offending the honor of Islam. In other words, no due process at all, just the subjective perceptions of the most zealous zealot are provide a license to kill.I do judge Islam for this insult to human dignity and the rule of law.

  • greg depaul

    The difference is that the Crusades, like the Muslim invasion of Spain and the Balkans, ocurred hundreds of years ago. But Islamic extremists are committing terrorism now. And it’s not just the tiny percentage who are terrorists, it’s the much larger percentage in Arab countries who condone the terrorism, such as the mobs in Gaza who cheer the murders of Israeli and American civilians. Stop lecturing Americans about tolerance and understanding — we already have freedom of religion here. Go tell the Arabs to try it as well. And Islam — in text — is unambiguously violent. Muhammed preaches much that is tolerant in his book but he also clearly exhorts his followers to conquer in the name of religion and, in some cases, kill unbelievers who refuse to convert.

  • homer

    Fahmy,Moslems are judged by their deeds.So the game is. To convert people you recite the peaceful Mo years. Once convinced and converted to Islam they have to prove by following the second part of Koran, which deals with how to treat none believers ie holy war. To claim few Moslems are extremist? That’s the biggest lie. The entire Moslem’s world survives on extremism.How come all the Moslem’s countries from Bangladesh[not including India] to Turkey call themselves, Islamic countries. You terrorise the minorities in your countries. Murder them under some pretext.How many Moslems protested about the Mo’s cartoons ?How many people were murdered?What do you call none Moslems. Pigs, donkeys, infidels, kafirs.. As if God gave the Moslems his land registry to his kingdom.

  • Feneduck

    What would be the peaceful interpretation of: “Kill the idolaters wherever you find them, imprison them, besiege them, ambush them” Just curious.

  • Pamela

    The problem with numbers is this: 1.5 billion muslims worldwide. (give or take.)take 1 % of that… what do you get. 15 million. That’s a huge number, even though it is a tiny percentage. Even half that — 7.5 million is a huge number. I doubt there are actually 7.5 million extremist jihadi radical Muslims bent on violence worldwide, so we’re lokoing at percentages of less than 1/2 of 1 percent. This is why it seems like violence and radicalism is so prevalent in the Muslim community. And why we say it is a tiny minority.This perception is further compounded by the fact that some people (like Frank) take war situations and portray them as acts of unprovoked violence as though their perpetrators were walking down the streets of Albequerque or Syracuse rather than in the midst of a war our government initiated under false pretenses…The sad thing is that when Muslims actually do stand up and say, not in our name, or this is not Islamic, we are told we can’t do that by the very same folks who demand a reform in Islam. You can’t beg for reform and then tell the reformers they are being inauthentic, but that is what those of us trying to promote the humane side of Islam encounter all the time.That and 58,000 word manifestos (yes, I cut and pasted Franks “comments” in to word and did a word count). 137 pages in standard manuscript format — an entire book passed off as a comment! Anyway, thank you Ambassador for adding one more voice of sanity to the conversation.Pamela

  • Morry

    The posts by Glen and Caesar say it all. I do not see throngs of muslims protesting the suicide bombings. All I see are throngs calling for more of the same. Sad but until mankind can finally put religion (superstition and primitivism) to rest, we shall replay these ghastly situations over and over.

  • frank collins

    jeff, jeff, jeff, will you never learn?

  • gregor

    I think religious debates are futile exercises, just as all religious activities are, but if we follow the logic of some of the posters above, since we do not see the majority of Americans crowding on the streets to protest the killing of thousands of innocents in Iraq in a war based on lies of our poltical leaders, are we to assume that Christianity, the majority religion of USA, is to blame for these deaths?

  • Jeremy

    This was the first time I have actually come in here to read the posts following one of the religion editorials, and I am pleasantly surprised. I’m an atheist. It really really heartens me to see someone like Frank pummel people with the truth of the problems with Islam. The fact the list is huge is irrelevant. It is the sort of list that can’t be ignored or simply waved away if one is going to have a serious discussion of islam. All of you who claim that he is misrepresenting islam has to deal with those lists in some fashin. Clearly, saying that those events are the work of a few misguided souls, which is what the author of the post has said, is rendered utterly rediculous when you look at the list.For those who try to wave the list away by saying one could do the same about Christianity, you have missed the point…it is certainly true Christianity has done evil things, but in 2007 it is very rare that Christians kill non Christians IN THE NAME OF CHRISTIANITY. It has evolved and learned to adapt. Islam has not. And the very first comment nails the exact problem with Islam: Islam itself. Islam demands that any government be an islaminc one. The sharia, the laws in the Koran, are to be the laws that drive governance and not just daily living. This is why democracy is so atithetical to traditional Muslims. This will never change because it is such an inherent part of islam.–Jeremy

  • Russell D.

    Frank:Did you just liken the Bible to a history book? Yea, you just lost ALL credibility on this thread……….

  • Daniel

    Maybe Moslems don’t speak up about violence in the name of Islam because they are afraid of mafia-like retaliation. It is a complicated web in which we are all trapped. A previous emailer said that the same argument could be made about Christianity, that just because we can cite many examples of Christian violence throughout history, does that make Christianity bad? Well, yes it does, doens’t it? Christianity is hypocritical, as well. My main gripe with Islam is their categorization of all non-Islamic people as infidels. I hate that word. And the treatment of women is pretty bad. They can say that this mistreatment of women is their religion, but such a religion can hardly claim any credibility, with a modern educated person.

  • Rita

    Oh, don’t give me this “but we never killed people like this” hooey.The US has been killing people and terrorizing the world for YEARS. The American Indians, for starters, the contras. Have we forgotten that we put Saddam, a brutal dictator, in power in the first place? Our enormous commercial power has allowed and is still allowing debt slavery from produce pickers to factory laborers to take place in other countries, because we want to consume consume consume. We’re not a christian nation, we’re a nation of buyers and eaters and polluters and complacency. We worship the dollar, we worship the Hummer, we worship Walmart.We do not have the moral high ground, and never will if we continue on this path. Islam may need an awakening, but America needs one too!

  • David

    Anon wrote: “Ok, I’m not trying to be mean, … But, who are the Muslims we see on TV rioting and burning American flags? Are they part of the few extremists? I just get concerned about how many extremists there really are.”The few, the proud, the brave? 😉

  • frank collins

    no gregor its not a religious war, and i dont buy your 100’s of thousands statement.

  • Bob

    The main problem with the Koran is simple: There is no interpreting allowed. What is says is exactly what it means….the Koran is verbatum the word of God, no human interpretation ever took place, nor ever will. That is a stark contrast to the Bible, which is not the word of God, but what people say and interpret is the word of God. Big difference. We know the Gospels were written by people…But Mohammad was little more than a scribe for God, jotting down what he was saying word for word. The Hadiths are the closest thing in Islam to the the Gospels….however, nothing compares to the Koran itself. My point being: If the Koran is verbatum the word of God, why are there so many contradictions? There are definitely some unambigiously peaceful words in there, no doubt. But there are also many unambigiously violent words in there as well. Which should the people pay attention to? Both are equally valid. The extremests have choosen to adhere to the violent aspects of the Koran….while most others have chosen to follow the peaceful aspects of it…..but are either really wrong when it is the exact word of God advocating both?

  • George

    Anyone who thinks Muslims are the peaceable “why can’t all get along?” types, should look no further than Minneapolis, MN. First, the Somalis take over the taxi trade and then impose Quranic restrictions on passengers (No alcohol, no dogs, no pork). Give them an inch and they’ll take your mile. Under the pretext of their religious freedom, they’ll take your civil liberties away from you–in your own country. How many ‘few’ does it take to make a ‘lot’?

  • Dan Storm

    Once again when people want to assert that Christianity is violent they pull a thousand year old event out of the closet, namely, the Crusades. This so-called Muslim minority is comprised of millions of hate-filled devotees plus millions more cheering them on. They may be a minority, but they are a sizable one. Very few Muslims decry these people.I’m sick of the political correctness. Islam is not a religion of peace. Can’t we just acknowledge this already and stop debasing ourselves with lies?

  • Viejita del oeste

    GregorI was reluctant to check back here this morning since this site crashed my internet link last time. Obviously Frank has not been following the advice (from me and from others) to post no more than he can type in by hand. I am happy to see comments by an Egyptian Muslim. The American and British representatives of any position besides Christianity or secular humanism are by definition giving a minority view. This minority status gives them a markedly different perspective than someone who grew up and developed his attitudes in Egypt. Violence in any religion is closely linked to identity and politics.It would be nice if Mr. Fahmy was able to talk about the governance of the various Arab and other Islamic-majority countries. Some of the posts here imply that those governments have been enablers of the kind of words and actions that he disavows…Sort of like how Bush favors the most inflammatory Christian rhetoric. Is there a politically successful way of standing up to the extremists without threatening the stability of an elected government?

  • CB

    Though I try not to let my prejudices color my perceptions of individuals who are Muslim, I do not percieve Islam to be a peaceful religion. My negative perceptions come not only from acts of violence in the news, but the following:There is much violence in the world of late related to Islamic extremism — 9/11, Indonesian bombings, Darfur, Iraqi insurgents, etc. I have not often heard prominent clerics denouncing that violence. I have, however, heard Christian, Jewish, and ecumenical groups preaching peace. I do not agree with the ethics of Islamic law or the other laws of Muslim countries. My primary disagreements have to do with the way women are treated. It saddens me to think that there are entire countries where women can’t be professionals or even drive. It horrifies me to hear about honor killings or women who were raped being stoned to death. No other modern religion supports that garbage right now. Though terrorists are in the minortiy of Muslims, there is no other one faith in the modern world that is currently turning out so many extremists — from training camps in Pakistan, to insurgents in Iraq, to hate-preaching clerics all over the world. Yes, there have been nuts from Judeo-Christian backgrounds such as Jim Jones and David Koresh. However, they didn’t have anywhere near as many followers as some violent Muslim clerics have and they didn’t manage to kill as many poeople. Koresh and Jones also weren’t preaching a religion that was anything like Christianity as it is accepted by most Christians. My hopes for the western world’s reconcilliation with Muslims are also dashed when I hear of how unyielding adherents of the faith can be — the Autralian who wants a parallel court system to function based on Islamic law and the Muslims who want to control how their prophet is represented in art (as if there have never been offensive cartoons about other faith’s prophets and gods).

  • Its the Cat again

    To Pamela, Muslims are non-violent and peaceful? That is not a sane voice, it is F@#*ING INSANE! You gotto be kidding me. And giving STUPID numbers, like total number of muslims, what 1% of that is (Thank you very much, but we can do our maths, however complicated that is, and believe me, figuring out 1% of a number is rocket science), how many words are there in some crazy persons’ post (though his msg is clear: majority of muslims are VIOLENT, RADICAL, FUNDAMENTALISTS out to convert or kill! ALL OF “THEM” SUFFERING FROM A MASS SCHIZOPHRENIA characterized by SEVERE PARANOIA & DELUSIONS OF PERSECUTION, not to mention A DISTINCT MEGALOMANIA AND DELUSIONS OF PERSECUTION!To Mohamed MALLECK,You also say: “We need, not a new Caliphate, not terrorism (whatever that term may mean),…”

  • Viejita del oeste

    Oops, maybe I belong on Post Global.

  • Viejita del oeste

    …and please don’t throw around words like “jihad” if you do not understand them. According to most Arabic scholars, jihad means conversion of the heart (to better follow Allah) and evangelization to the world. How is that different from our Christian imperative to convert our hearts in order to be more Christlike, and to bring the good news to the world? You people need to stop letting the extremists define the terms for you. Didn’t you even read Fahmy’s column?

  • Viejita del oeste

    Gregor

  • Justin

    I am in agreement with some of the more moderate and even-headed voices in here. Some good points have been made pointing toward a direction of evolution and healing of this weighty issue. Some lengthy vitriol has been spewed, serving only as further fuel for extremism. Extremism does not seem to exist well without a counterbalancing form of extremism. For instance islamic fundamentalists do not rise to more powerful positions socially without having an “evil” perpetrator to rally their flocks behind. Just as christian fundamentalists do not become powerful without having the support of millions of like-minded christians aligned against it’s presumed “evil” perpetrator. The hate spewers, like our Frank Collins here, serve only to heat up hatred and fan the flames and fuel the fire of continuing fundamentalist friction between tribes. There is no healing there, and no change. Actions of turning in your neighbors, as JBE suggests, is interesting in that it is at it’s root suggesting that ‘peace-loving’ adherants of a religion should stand up for what they believe instead of be silenced by their fear. It is just passing on the action to the police, but that is in support of maintainance of social laws then it is proper.

  • Anonymous

    WOW.. I am stunned. The silence of the Muslim world is ridiculous– But what does anyone say about the Silence of the west on the atrocities commited in the name of freedom? Are they any less horrendous. If people kill in the name of religion, it is condemened and you all say– “away w/ religion”. Whan they kill in the name of democracy , you stay silent? Let me tell you all something. The Muslims accuse the west of the very thing you accuse them of. Why are the Americans so silent? The whole world knew Iraq war was wrong, but Americans were so keen to go in. The pics of dismembered bodies caused by suicide bombing are nothing compared to the amount of destruction caused by US. Can Hiroshima, Nagasaki, Fallujah, Baghdad, Afghanistan, Lebanon and so on be compared w/ the number of suicide killings? Oh ofcourse, We use the weapons of good destruction. We only destroy the guilty. You say they do not protest on suicide bombings, at least their leader offer some lip service of condemnation. What does this nation do, when the poor Muslims are bombed–maintain silence and offer silent support to the crooks in the White house. Did Bush not win a second term? And by teh way, for those quoting stuff from Quran, have you ever studied the Bible? or Torah? Those books appear far more Blood-thirsty. But as a a great priest said, “you need to consult a scholar when reading these verses and not jump to your own conclusion”. As for Mr. hindu, please do not leave the crimes of Hindus out. Who is burning Christian alive in Goa.

  • D

    Mr. Fahmy,Westerners’ suspicion that Islam tolerates violence comes from the APPEARANCE that the followers of Islam insufficiently condemn those that carry out violence. I stress “appearance” because I use it subjectively and you may disagree. Many of these acts of violence strike Westerners as so incredibly abhorrent that they must be aggressively condemned and aggressive action be taken against the organizers. Anything less (equivocating, lip service or half-hearted action) would be interpreted as condoning those violent acts.Finally, many governments in Muslim nations have been extremely helpful in investigating and combating terrorism and that is appreciated. However, the notion seems to not be shared by some influential people. I think you and I would agree that the reason most people of any creed do not steal or kill is not because of governments’ laws prohibiting it it but because of the unwritten societal laws against it. Regards,

  • Oscarmayer

    Frank’s history of violence by the followers of Islam is well known but often ignored by the pseudo-liberals. I think a key point here is there has always been violence when religious demagoguery has prevailed. You will see reference to it in the Old Testament and even the Bible. Most religions become accomodating with maturity and through contacts with different societies. Islam does not seem capable of making that path to accomodation. The Koran is basically the work of a semi-literate man, a shrewd politician, who used religion to secure a large following among the nomadic tribes of Arabia. References in the Koran to the acceptability of raping, killing and enslavement of non-muslims was a clever way to appeal to the natural greed of the populance. It’s no different than any other shrewd dictaor would do. I suspect in the end the West will either have to contain Islam or be overun. Bush, unfortunately has failed miserably. One needs an abler politician while the West still has the economic and military superiority. China could be an ally as it too has fears of an Islamic scourge.

  • RS

    In Iraq, the party with the most votes was the Supreme Council for the Islamic Revolution, which is known to run death squads. The Palestinians voted for Hamas. Ahmadinejad won in Iran (though in defense of Iranian voters, it must be said the clergy cherry-picked which candidates were allowed to run at all). Polls show confidence in al-Qaeda is a mainstream opinion in many Muslim countries. A significant minority of British Muslims supported the London terrorist attacks. It is demonstrably a lie to say that only a tiny fringe of Muslims sympathises with extremists. This doesn’t mean moderation in the Islamic world is ncessarily doomed (after all, a plurality of Germans voted for the Nazis), but extremism, like Fascism in Europe in the 1930s is a genuine mass movement, not the work of a handful of people. To deny this is both untenable and counterproductive.

  • gregor

    I will begin worrying about ‘the silence of the Muslim world’ as soon as approval rating of the architects of the Iraq war goes down to 1% or less in our country.

  • Russell D.

    Anon:I wanna give you a hug man, that was beautiful. But a manly hug, cool?

  • Mohamed MALLECK, Swift Current, Canada

    HOMER,Your post of April 24 at 1:14 p.m.The first time you heard the great wisdom that a little knowledge is a dangerous thing, you must have been eight years old or younger. Yet, up to now you don’t appreicate how true it is and you don’t apply it to yourself.When the Jews welcomed Muhammad, p.b.u.h. and his companions to Yathrib after their exile (Hijra) from Mecca, they listened to his message and got converted to Islam just, in 860 more than 1 million Kharakanids got converted in the largest single mass conversion act ever recorded in history and just as Timur the Lame and his legions got converted when Timur met an Imam on the banks of the river Amu Darya. The episode is recounted, with original souces cited in Marozzi’s book Tamerlane (published 2006).As for your claims of Muhammad p.b.u.h. waging war on caravans, it was Khadidja’s caravans travelling between Damascus and Mecca and carrying precious silks and damasks (exquisite textile material so called because they came from Damascus) that were being ambushed by those who had persecuted Muhammad p.b.u.h. and his companions earlier. The companions defended themselves with Islamic fervour. It was that sincerity, that fervour which in those days already prevailed over the numerical superiority of the adversary (and which today again prevails over the most sophisticated and technologically-advanced war machines of Baus and Blair), that won the admiration of on-lookers and got them converted to Islam the same way thatmy great grandfather got converted to Islam and I am so full of fervour for Islam.

  • katrina

    Many postings here have greatly saddened me. I wonder how many of the posters have any depth of experience in any foreign nation let alone a Muslim nation? The news that we see, some of which Frank posted in his 58,000 words, is certainly overwhelming as is the prison population any given day in the U.S. and annual violent crime rate from any major U.S. city. Growing up in a foreign nation and living abroad as an adult taught me something at a most fundamental level…most people around the world care about the following first and foremost — finding love, providing for their families, and some form of personal satisfaction be it a hobby or job or dream. This can be said of a peasant in Indonesia, a Moroccan shop clerk, a Portuguese diver, a Tongan radio announcer, a sheepherder in New Zealand, an Ethiopian school principal, a Japanese schoolboy or an American homeless woman on a blanket in Southwest Washington,DC. I hope that some of the posters have the opportunity to experience the joy of getting to know other cultures even within their own country…it seems that some of these folks have such terrible bias that they have eluded this joy. What a travesty.

  • Jeff Blaine

    Frank, Frank, Frank, you don’t have to ask me when I’ll ever learn. After all, I do have a degree in Middle Eastern studies and am well aware of the Armenian massacre committed by the Ottomans. What about the more recent massacres of Muslims by Christians in the Balkans? But it’s no use trying to reason with close-minded bigots, be they Muslim, Christian, Jewish or what-not. Rant as much as you like. I’ll take comfort in two other maxims: Love thy neighbor as thyself and If someone strikes thee on thy right cheek, offer him thy left.

  • Zain

    Dan Storm:”Once again when people want to assert that Christianity is violent they pull a thousand year old event out of the closet, namely, the Crusades.”Oh ok, hold on a sec..What about the native Americans, millions of whom were decimated by European “Christian” colonizers?What about the conflicts and ensuing dictatorships the U.S promoted in El Salvador, Nicaragua, Chile, Guatemala, that left millions dead? How about the Vietnam war? Almost two hundred thousand dead because of the great “brainfart” the neo-cons had about “reshaping” (colonising?) the Middle East.Just more “Collateral damage” in the U.S’s pursuit of “free market, democracies? Seems to me that this “Democratic free market” god is more bloodthirsty than those worshiped by the followers of the three monotheisms.Now granted that not all of the above conflicts were done in “Gods name” (though one particular president has invoked heavenly guidance as partial explanation of his actions), but is violence committed in the name of religion worse than that committed in the name of any other? Murder is murder and the use of barbarism and violence in the pursuit of any objective (anti-communism, democracy, Islam, Christianity, saving puppies stuck in trees) is condemnable. (Well maybe the people who put the puppy in the tree deserve a kick or two in the rear…)

  • Jeremy

    Victoria, the simple answer to you question may be that many radical or even moderate Muslims do not read this section of the Washington Post’s site. This does not mean that they don’t exist.More to the point, your defense of Islam, which is akin to saying “Look, no Muslim has posted anything nasty here, so maybe we aren’t so bad after all” ignores the sizable list of atrocities committed by Muslims in the name of Islam that Frank has posted.That list, as infuritating as it may be, simply can’t be ignored or brushed away if you expect people to believe you represent a religion of peace. It must be answered. It must be dealt with.A person can show me thousands of atrocities commited by Christians in the past, and I would say no one commits those acts today in the name of Christioanity. You can say, “Look at all the evil America has done!” and I would point out America’s involvement in Somalia and Bosnia which were designed specifically to prevent the slaughter of Muslims, something which Muslims themselves would not even do.So how do you respond to Frank’s list?

  • Anonymous

    SubhanAllah.

  • Anonymous

    OSCARMAYER: obviously you know nothing about Islam. As for its Leader, here’s what Bernard Shaw, and some other great men have said. The list goes on I am merely quoting 3. Should we believe them or a slanderer like you. No religion that preaches violence can ever spread so fast, b/c ppl by default look for peace when choosing a religion. T George Bernard Shaw: Michael H. Hart of USA, compiled a ranking list of the 100 most influential persons in the history of the entire humanity, who authored book “The 100 most influential persons”, published in 1978 by Hart Publishing Company Inc. He ranked Muhammad peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him, as the number one, at the top of his list. Following are brief excerpts from the chapter on Muhammad.

  • Madrone

    Reply to: Americans crowding on the streets to protest the killing of thousands of innocents in Iraq in a war based on lies of our poltical leaders, are we to assume that Christianity, the majority religion of USA, is to blame for these deaths?_____________________________________ If the US government was engaging in direct, wholesale slaughter of Iraqi civilians, you’d have a point.However, nearly all of the deaths in Iraq are now perpetrated by Muslims, against Muslims.(That said, I’m not adbdicatng the US of responsibility for the war, but your comparision is foolish)

  • victoria

    it is what it is-jeremy- since you can find no contradiction to my point- that the overwhelmingly reasonable responses of muslims is an indication of their respectful attitude towards others, i will continue to define myself- it is simply an observable trend i see in these posts- should we surmise that extremists of other ilk reply here? what could be the reason some submit really malicious posts? whatever frank posted or didnt( i dodnt read it) peace

  • Anonymous

    MADRONE: Whenever we create divisions, we create disorder. If somebody comes and starts handing positions based on race in US, then soon blacks, whites, hispanics etc will be killing each other. Add to it a system of insecurity and fear. America introduced a dumb system. Read Nir rosen, (who is Jewish) “Crimes of US’ Shaihs and Sunnis are killing every day, but that killing does not come even close to what US achieved via intensive bombing. The current situation is a direct result of power vaccum and US strategy. If you do this in a christian, hindu, or a secular society, the result will be the same. Tart seeing HUman ans humans and not on the basis of religion, sect or creed. You will see they are essentially all the same.

  • Saeed

    Fearing the freedom of the west, Islamic radicalism is supported everywhere, and in this line also does the west know Islam through radicalism or moderation? The comparison between crusaders and Muslim radicals as they do not present their respective true faith, is exactly as saying that the Muslim radicals reflect middle ages mentalities and never our modern time – true. In this line also this question is asked, which voices are supported more in the Muslim world, that of the radicals or that of the moderates? The best way to keep the chairs and divert attention from the social ills like unemployment, low income, dissatisfaction, etc. is the anti-west Islamic radicalism that has a magical power in blaming the west for all the troubles – Muslim governments cannot take this stand openly. To give a very simple demonstration in support, how many Arabic stations are directed against the US and how many stand in support? Do the radicals dare to stand against their respective governments? As for the three Abrahamic faiths the problem is far greater than any single solution – one drop of green paint can never paint the black sea green.

  • Jeremy:

    Gregor, while some of the political support from the war in Iraq comes from conservative Christians, the soldiers doing the fighting and the majority of Americans who support the war are not apocolyptical Christans. There are certainly a large number of them, but I think it is rediculous to say that we have gone into iraq for religious reasons. As ignorant as Bush and Cheney are, I do believe they seriously thought that they would bring a domino effect of Democracy in the middle east by making iraq stable.Seriously, if I was a Christian president and really, SERIOUSLY wanted to bring about an apocolypitcal battle with Islam, a small nuclear device detonated over Mecca during the Hajj would do the trick.The difference, again, between Christianity and islam is that few people in this world commit acts like suicide bombs and brutal beheadings and so forth in the name of Christianity. It certainly happens now and then, but if you think that there’s no signifigant difference between modern Islam and Christianity you are mistaken.

  • Zain

    RS:1. Hamas was voted in because of the failure of Fatah to not only get Israel to negotiate upon a final settlement, but also because Hamas, in its role as a social organization, delivered on providing basic necessities and services to a lot of people in Gaza. You think, autocrat, dictator, violent group… the people who have to live in the inhuman, degrading life under occupation think; food, drinking, water, shelter etc. That is the paradox of a lot of “extremist” organizations.2. The SCIRI, reasons same as above, and do not forget that the death squads really exploded after waves of suicide bombings kept targeting Shia neighborhoods, with the explosion of Shia violence occurring after the Samarra shrine bombing.3. A recent poll also shows that a very small minority of Muslims believe violence against civilians in pursuit of political objectives is justified. That same poll also talks about a “perception” amongst Muslims that Al Qaeda was not responsible for attacks on the WTC, perhaps explaining why there continues to be support for this organization.WorldPublicOpinion.org.

  • Daniel

    It is not a good defense of Islam to point out that Christianity has done just as many bad things. In fact, it is easy to see that Christianity and Islam are mirror religions, in mirroring cultures. Both have had pretty malevalent influences on history, extinding right up until the present day. It has taken Europe a long time to tame its malevalent religion; is it too much to expect the Islamic people to do the same?

  • josiah

    Frank don’t take any crap from these towel headed Hos!

  • Sam

    Thanks you Josiah for expressing the views of all REAL AMERICANS!

  • Akbar

    All those who have skewed views about Islam needs further study of the religion. Truly, there are very few who follow Islam exactly. But that does not mean that Islam is not a good religion. Islam does not preach violence. PERIOD. All those who cites verses of Holy Quran about violence, do not observe the right context.

  • Suresh

    According to a famous and credible author, Robert Spencer: Mohamed was a pedophile, a very violent human being and a terrorist. He copies mostly from Jews and Christians to write his book of terror called Koran.

  • horace

    Zain you are a piece of crap and I hope you DIE!

  • Ras-I

    A Christian minister and pastor once told me that religion is a man made concept that is used to control people. He also said faithfulness is knowing your God without evidence and hoping that the peace that all human desires will one day be understood by your limited mine. This statement was made when I asked, what the difference between being religious and faithful is. I see a lot about different faiths mentioned in the discussion. Islam, Christianity, Hindu, Jews are all mentioned in the discussion and debates are going on about how all religions has, one time or another, kill and destroy people; how much destruction and killing was done by one or another. It really amazes me that no one wants to acknowledge that the innate evil that exists in man allows for such beastly acts. All wants to point to their God and how good and faithful their religion is. I guess what you are telling me is that the control that you are put under by a man is about the goodness of God. How crazy you all sound. Defending a man made concept to justify God’s approval. Who has seen God, Mohammed, Abraham, Moses, Jesus, Budha, etc. Every evil man will cry I am peaceful and is under the authority of God, when all they are after is to satisfy their own truth and lust for power. If my God created heaven and earth and let the rain fall on the just as well as the unjust then why does he need mans concept of what He desire. You hypocrites…If God is all powerful and your religion states you must follow this direction or this concept to be good or just…where is God’s control?….The desire for power is what it is all about and don’t you dear deny it. Any fool knows that we have killed more people in the name of religion than any natural disaster or calamity. We want to claim that one religion is better than another. Yeshua, the anointed one, called a group of believers to His teaching of how to be God-like. Man created Christianity to ensure they control the people under their authority. Answer this, why does people of religious faith always have a man for a leader that guides their faith and can direct them to do things in the name of God or belief system….things they won’t or can’t do themselves. Are you that dumb? People defend themselves but why must I defend a religion when man made the concept up. Judaism, Islam, Christianity are religions. What is God’s religion? I trust in my God’s pure spirit to guide me and not some man concept of what God wants. You can try to justify your religions but deep inside you know it is about your race or ethnicity. Why kill other in a different land in the name of God? Answer, they don’t look or talk like me. Hypocrites, face the truth. You are control by a man-made concept and not God’s. I remember Abraham the father of the major three religions once defended a city’s destruction. When he asked God, if there 10 righteous in the city, will you still destroy it and God said no. Sodom was destroyed…could not find 10….be prepared all who defend a religion…you too might not be just as you think. Remember, your father Abraham knew his God. Do any of you today?

  • RSL

    An Islamic spin artist? He’s as believable as the Bushies…which is to say zero credibility on just about every topic imaginable.Fahmy might be able to spell and do math, but he’s nothing more than spin doctor. He’d just as soon cut your throat than blow you a kiss.The spin doctors do nothing against their own..except make excuses. The sad thing is, probably 2/3rd’s of the worlds population is influenced by misinformation like Fahmy’s.I say to Fahmy – proof is in the pudding. Tell your brethern to “take back” your religion and stop blaming it’s violence on the West. Take a look at what the Methodists, Baptists, Lutherans, etc did when the Roman Catholic church ran amuck…they left. Well, not as easy as that, but you get the point. What is stopping the moderate Islamists from denouncing those who murder and starting a “new” faith?Too hard? Too smart? Too democratic?To those who buy into this spin…I have a bridge to sell you.

  • Justin

    Hey Jeff,

  • Ras-I

    By the way…that minister was my dad who pass away several years ago…

  • A.M.

    A formidable list indeed! Frank’s list overlooked the 6 million of Jews Muslims killed in Europe. The 22,062,427 people Muslims killed in WWI. And the 72,725,100 in WWII. Not to mention other pre-WWI violence. Such as? The European wars between 1450 (the War of the Roses) and the Napoleonic wars after 1789. These Muslims are real killers! Why should we debate them?

  • Zain

    Horace:Horace, thx for the well wishes, perhaps ill get my seventy virgins….

  • Zain

    Homer:Your posts…they’re all Greek to me….

  • Jeremy

    Victoria: Please read my post again. I made two points, directly addressing yours:1) The lack of vitriolic comments in this message board by Muslims bears no relation in any way to the amount of atrocities perpetrated by Muslims in the world. There is no relation. There is no reason to base the peacefullness of a religion Islam by the existance of or lack thereof of comments by Muslims, peacefull or otherwise, on a tiny message board buried int he corner of an online newspaper.You asked why there are no comparable responses by Muslims on this board, and i answered you in my post. Please reread it.2) You should read Frank’s comments before continuing. His comments, the very long large list of atrocities (there are two lists recently posted) is the reason why you must scroll down so far to read the messages.There are a lot of attacks on Islam here, vitrioloc or otherwise. But I have a suspcion that you would take ignore most of the points of s harsh, critical attacks against islam rather than deal with the points made. Most posters hear, myself included, feel that islam is a terrible religion and bad for humanity. I’m sorry you disagree. Just because you may respond peacefully to that or other staments here does not make yours the better religion for mankind, I’m sorry to say.

  • Truthful

    All religions are nothing but the tool of a particular cultist to control the mind of his people. The followers of almost all religions have recovered from this sad reality. There is lot of garbage in all religious books including the Quran. But Christians have ignored all the garbage in the Bible and only talk about the good things. Jews have done the same vis-à-vis their book as have Hindus. Mormons have given up polygamy. Only Muslims continue to believe in all their Quran junk. Has any Muslim ever thought of Muhammad’s true nature? I think he was a cultist, a sex-maniac and a bigot. He had sex with any thing moving. He convinced his associate Sidik to hand over his 8 years old daughter whom he married. A 50+ years old man marrying an eight year old girl! And Muslims are proud of this child molestation. Shame on them! This Mohammad-Sidik conspiracy against a little girl was nothing more than an act of a mad cult. It is about time Muslim stop quoting Quran and start to ignore the garbage it preaches, and only focus on good things that it encompasses, and there are some good things in it. Like taking care of orphans, charity, etc.

  • RE: Franks List

    In response to Franks list: Where is the mention of politics when mentioning all these events, or do you easily grant these events as ‘islamic’? I could spend the entire day building my own ‘christian’, communist, or socialist list that will double anything you copy and paste continuously. The fact is that Islam is here to stay, sorry haters. Poor leadership and lack of education is at the root of the Muslim problem. They were once in the Golden Age but have wanned into the darkness. God has granted them great wealth and they have sqaundered it. God has given them RESPONSBILITY and they are failing at it. The West cannot bring much solution to their political and social problems, so I suggest they best learn that democracy cannot be implanted in their societies. For all those posters who fear Islam no matter how much moderate Muslims speak up it will NEVER be enough for you, so why do you even attempt to communicate in these forums when you already have an agenda of lies, deception, and ignorance? Civilizations wax and wane all the time and we are caught in the middle of a huge global event. Finger pointing will not solve anything.

  • OscarMayer

    OscarMayer RespondsI suspect Shaw would recant if he saw Islam and the violence it has generated. Only Hitler and Stalin have demonstrated greater virulence. I believe containing Islam would be at least an order of magnitude more difficult than the effort it took to defeat Hitler and Stalin. The followers of Hitler and Stalin were at least members of a civilized society with all the restraint that implies. Even the fanatical SS soldiers could not be convinced that dying in battle granted them the exclusive rights to 72 virgins in the next Kingdom. Any semi-literate sex-starved youth becomes a potential convert, for where other religions offer restraint, Islam appeals to their purient, immoral and lecherous basic instincts. You gotta admire Muhammad for his genius. What other man has appealed to a man’s baser instincts more convincingly and with greater success while offering him the keys to the Kingdom of Heaven. Unfortunately, in a nuclear age Muhammed’s philosophy becomes impractical if not extremely dangerous. Besides, from a practical viewpoint, Allah would have difficuly finding 36 billion virgins if all 500 million Islamic males decided they wanted to become martyrs.

  • Zain

    “What is stopping the moderate Islamists from denouncing those who murder and starting a “new” faith?”Well for one thing the extremists are much better armed, so you are liable to probably get you and your family killed, and the majority of Muslim countries do not have effective law enforcement (or the rulers choose to look the other way when extremists threaten violence). Taking out a procession against the ideas promoted by these people is not so easy as marching on Washington D.C. I do have to commend the thousands of people who came to the streets in Pakistan in protest against a bunch of radicals threatening to enforce Shariah. The response of the government, let the radicals block roads, kidnap people accused of “moral depravity”, and harass and threaten owners of “objectionable businesses”. If I were a moderate without the means to start life in another country (as unfortunately the majority of Muslims are), I would be very, very afraid to open my mouth to protest these goons as the Govt. pampers them and looks the other way..

  • RE: Truthful

    So the christians only talk about good things but yet they wage plenty of world wars and disrupt cultures on every continent? As for your attempt to put down Muhammed in regards to his relationship with Aisha that is nothing new, nice try. Be a little more original in your attempts to ‘change the world’ you pathetic child.

  • Jim

    I understand Franks view of Islam. I don’t agree with it but I understand it. If you look at the history of Abrahams three religions you see lots of violence in Gods name until some liberal political philosophies are injected. The Israelis prior to domination by others were warriors, Christianity has a long bloody history(when not crusading they were killing each other), and of course the spasms of Islam as reacts to the despots of the middle east. So maybe with a little luck and persuasion Islam can grow through this.

  • Anti-Muslims Without Borders

    Why don’t you speak of the muslim invasion of Spain over 300 years BEFORE the First Crusade? No one believes your lies except the idiots who swallowed the twaddle of peaceful Islam. The police will not always protect you in the West and then you will have to deal with anti-muslim “activists” who want to “talk” to you, sooner or later.

  • RE: Meyer

    I think God is above all math equations and can grant those who deserve rewards their compensation.

  • steve

    Rita,

  • Truthful

    OK. nothing new about Aisha! But where is your answer? Was he a child-molester or not? Answer the question, you intellectual coward! Where is the originality in your avoiding the answer, like most Muslims do, even many eductaed ones. They are intellectual cowards, hence, thier perpetual misery. it is easier to behead an innocent captive than answer an argument.

  • Anon 2

    Victoria — so, exactly how is Islam not a violent religion when its founder & the one whose example you are required to emulate — killed people who did not convert? Again, there is no corollary in Christianity. Jesus killed no one and never urged his followers to do so.

  • A.M.

    Clarification:The 22,062,427 people killed by Muslims in WWI does include the 6 Million Jews also killed by Muslims. We don’t want anyone to accuse us of inflating Muslim violence.

  • Anonymous

    Homer you are playing an evil game. Anybody can take references out of history and spin. These references mean nothing by themselves. what matters is a detailed understanding of the events. Bible has the most blood-thirsty, horrendous verses, that i do not feel comfortable quoting as they will be taken out of context. Quran offers nothing in comparison. heck, my own brother-in-law left christianity b/c of the violence it talks about and the extre wrath of God. Stop this silly game.

  • Li-Lo

    Lord have mercy, by the time I got down to the part where you make a comment I forgot what I was going to say! Seriously people cut the crap out, specially those way too long comments about how much you know about Islam and how long you’ve studied the Qu’ran! No one cares specially when it’s clear you have no business talking about the subject. For starters unless you’ve read the Qu’ran in arabic you’re probably misinterpreting every single word and the context. Secondly Mohammed did not write the Qu’ran to be Frank he wasn’t around when it was written. Lastly an Islamic Nation Minister isn’t going to have the same interpretation of Islam as say an Imam (a true man of Islam) will have. Islam isn’t anymore violent than any other religion or their people. It’s all in the context that the media and the people choose to interpret it and feed it to the masses.

  • Zain

    Truthful:I agree with you on Islam reinterpreting itself. One of the first things that needs to be done is throw out the Shariah and Hadith. They are full of contradictions. The Quran does not need to be changed, just have some portions reinterpreted from a more humanistic point of view. Recently a woman (U.S or Canada, I cannot remember excactly) offered a new interpretation of a controversial verse that talks about a man being able to gently beat his wife if she “behaves badly” (some might prefer a wife being “bad”). She researched the word that translated to mean “beat” and found that it had 20 plus meanings, one of which was to “ignore”. The majority of the interpretations of the Quran come from scholars who lived in patriarchal societies and most likely interpreted the Quran to support their own prejudices, which happened to coincide with the customs prevalent in those cultures. This would have made accepting Islam much easier for the general populace. Take Somalia for instance, I have not heard of the Quran advocating female circumcision, yet this barbaric custom is justified as “Islamic” by so many clerics in Somalia. The practice is more “African” than it is “Islamic”, though a large part of the areas where it is practiced mey be inhabited by Muslims (a subtle difference but a difference none the less). This illustrates the power of culture over religion in my opinion and the ability of culture to morph religion to fit its parameters.

  • BlaiseP

    I grew up in Niger Republic. I have spoken Arabic and Hausa for 40 years. Islam now wishes to call itself a religion of peace, and say the vast majority of its adherents do not believe what the Qu’ran has to say about Christians and other kuffār.I am a Christian. My mother, father and myself have been spit on by Muslims and threatened with death. Nobody rose to our rescue. Inside the دار الإسلام things are different for us non-Muslims. We were among the first NGO people into Kabul Afghanistan, setting up the first women’s clinic. We got no help from Muslims.Islam is roughly 600 years younger than Christianity. Six hundred years ago, Christianity was doing what Islam is doing now, and it would all culminate in the Thirty Years War, in which a third of Europe would die in religious wars. The Treaty of Westphalia emerged from that war, the first notion of international law. Like Christianity, Islam must put a dividing line between Mosque and State, or the line will be drawn for it. There will be consequences for Islam, as there were consequences for Christianity, if this line is not drawn.The central problem with militant Islam arises from the teachings of Sayyid Qutb. In Islam, nobody may criticise another person’s It is simply untrue to say Islam is a religion of peace, the دار الحرب dar al-Harb, the House of War, is what Islam calls all lands not under its control. All religions, when they interfere in politics, make trouble. The Prophet (pbuh) was a king in his time, and he did what kings do: he made war, made laws, executed his enemies, and left behind wives and children, who made war with each other. Muslim on Muslim violence consumes Iraq, Palestine, Afghanistan, Egypt, the list goes on and on.Now we look at Christianity, meek and mild, as if butter wouldn’t melt in its mouth. It was not always that way, as others have observed. What changed, between now and then? The same things must change with Islam, and it must be done from within. For the world will not tolerate the Religion of Qutb much longer: already

  • Mo

    No one of us where there when all these things are said to have happened. How do we know it’s true?

  • Anonymous

    Ok guys!

  • Patrick

    To the poster who asked about Christian crusaders attacking each other, look up the sacking of Byzantium or Antioch.There is a fundamental problem with this question and that is a monolithic idea of Islam. Just like monolithic Communism was a disastrous mistake, it is foolish to lump Lebanese Shiite religious organizations like Hezbollah with Palestinian Sunni religious groups like Hamas with Persian Shii Islamic governments like Iran with Afghani Sunni groups like the Taliban. Those groups all have similar interests at the moment and will aid each other as long as it serves them, but they have fundamentally different and mutually exclusive goals. The U.S. didn’t seem to learn anything after the Sino-Soviet split.All killing is political. The reason modern Christians aren’t killing each other as much anymore is because our nation states have become more or less defined. In places where they are not (see Africa and Northern Ireland) see violent struggles, most appealing to Christianity. In contrast, most Muslim states rely on poorly crafted Colonial borders with little to no natural esprit de corps of the people, thus plenty of turmoil and violence. Introduce the U.S. supporting undesirable governments and poof, global terrorism.

  • Hussein

    This is such a tiresome debate.Fellow Muslims should give up on trying to reach out to non-Muslims. A “can’t we all just get along” attitude will do no good with people who harbor dogmatic and rabid anti-Muslim opinions.Christianity’s sins and the Matzoh Ball Republic’s crimes preceded Islamic terrorism by ions. Not only can Jews nurse a 2000-year old discriminatory belief that Palestine belongs to them (displacing the Palestinians, who had nothing to do with the Diaspora) and Christians harbor a 2000-year canard that Jesus is the only way (justifying centuries of murder, mayhem, colonization and slavery), but they can concretely benefit from such self-serving propaganda and mythology. I do not see who in the Muslim world has similarly benefited from terrorism. In fact, it seems that innocent Muslim bystanders have suffered both from Islamic terrorism and the West’s unhinged response to it.I have never carried out a terrorist act nor encouraged any one to do so in my name, yet I am expected to “speak up” against atrocities committed by other Muslims? Get a life.And let’s put Muhammed’s behavior in the context of his time, not in the shade of post-enlightenment ideals. When he showed up on the scene, the world had already suffered six hundred years of Christian butchery, more than 1000 years of Jewish xenophobia and timeless pagan failure. So I am glad that Muhammed was a realist who understood the balance of power and kindness and was not the failed prophet of ‘love.’

  • Julie

    Thank you, Ambassador Fahmy, for promoting dialogue regarding these important issues. I regret the lack of civility that is apparent in many of the responses. I believe that better understanding will come only when we all learn to talk less and listen more. I am from a Christian background and, in my experiences traveling in predominantly Muslim countries, I have been impressed with the compassion, hospitality and love of wisdom that people have drawn from their Muslim faith. Thank you for sharing your perspective.

  • CMB

    About the only “religious” tenant that has ever made sense is The Golden Rule…treat others as you would wish to be treated. In other words, BE NICE TO EACH OTHER. That’s it…plain and simple. BE NICE TO EACH OTHER. You don’t need some old, white-bearded man living in the sky to tell you to…BE NICE TO EACH OTHER. Religion is overrated as an explanation for man’s inhumanity to man. Doesn’t matter what you want to practice as long as your right to worship whatever you want stops at my nose. Muslim, Christian, Jew, Hindu, etc….dream your little dreams and leave everyone else alone. Just BE NICE TO EACH OTHER.

  • Daniel

    Patrick said that Western Christians aren’t as violent as they used to be because we have our nation-states pretty well-defined. That is exactly right. And how did we get the point of well-defined nation-states? By way of World War I and World War II. Millions and millions of people died in these 2 brief wars, so that Europe could takes its present form. And that is the way, I am afraid, the problems of the fragmented Islamic and Arab world must be solved, as well. But I am afraid, this time, the world may not survive.

  • Truthful

    You nameless intellectual coward!

  • Colorado Kool Aid

    “A few radical Muslims along with many in the West seem to share a common tactic. They intentionally interpret texts out of context and claim that that is what Islam represents. Neither should be allowed to impose their distorted reading nor to define this great faith.”This gets to the crux of the problem with Islam today — you are in deep, deep denial about what has happened to your faith. “A few” is simply not true, unless you count tens of thousands of Imans and millions of followers as “a few.” I will accept that these radicals have hijacked your religion and are not true to its teachings and its roots — but there are millions of Muslims who have accepted the teachings of these radicals and who USE Islam to justify their beliefs. Your notion that it is a “few Muslims” and “many westerners” indicates you want to blame the west for YOUR problems. That won’t fly with we westerners, nor will it put you in a position to do something about the millions who are using Islam to advance their aims. You need to do something about the thousands of Imans who are preaching this hate, who are misuing your faith and who are misleading their followers. There is NOTHING that I as a westerner can do to stop them — it is all up to YOU to fix. You can start by stop denying the size and danger of the radical Muslim element that defames your religion and puts the West in jeopardy. Until you realize the magnitiude of the problem and start dealing with it, you are part of the problem!

  • dritchie

    I have to admit that I have not read the Quran and I have not lived in the Middle East, so I am basically an ignorant Westerner. Maybe that is why I don’t understand why it is, if there are about a billion Muslims, that we rarely ever hear even a murmur from the hundreds of millions of so-called moderate Muslims when one of the “few” extremists decides to blow him or herself up and take out men, women, children, household pets, schools, police stations, open markets, Christians, Jews, other Muslims, aetheists, and maybe even a few soldiers. Yes, a relatively small number of extremists are tainting the name of Islam, but it appears that very few Muslims seem to even care…

  • Volodya

    I would be much less concerned if the mainstream thinkers of modern-day Islam were moving away from interpreting the basic concept of Jihad in a war-like, aggressive, intolerant sense. But this is not happening. I can barely tell apart the vicious pronouncements of Osama bin Laden from the supposedly liberal writings of Tariq Ramadan. Here lies the real issue, and everything else (including quite irrelevant references to Christianity) is just a verbal smokescreen.

  • First Time viewer

    Wow that was a great list of everything bad that a muslim has did. I wonder how long a list of rapists and child molestors that are christian/catholic or any other religion. I’m not saying that Christians or any other religion is wrong. That would be ignorant, much like Frank Collins is. I just would like to show how brainless his tacktics are. First thanks for the list, i could do the same for any religion but i will just sum things up. Some of the greatest evils known to man: Nazi Germany/Holocaust, Slavery, Salem witch trials, the stripping of the native american’s land and claiming them as their own… the list goes on. My point being is non of these were the works of muslims. Also, all of these were done by different religions and different races. The whole point is you can’t generalize people as evil because of religion or anything else. Everyman has sinned and every man has done good on this earth. You hating another man will never bring peace. So enuff listing the wrongs of others and do something more productive with your time. Please stop spreading hate.

  • Zain

    Hussein:I was perusing a “how to” site once and saw the alluring link “How to stop yourself from blogging”. One of the pearls of wisdom put forth was that the majority of bloggers post precisely because they have entrenched, unwavering opinions. So the idea that one may make a “difference”, foster an understanding and appeal to the “other side’s” sense of fairness and empathy by articulating ones own perspective and views, while an extremely enticing proposition, is doomed from the get go as you suggested.

  • Volodya

    To First Time Viewer: you probably realize that those whom you call “Christian rapists and child molesters” did not rape and molest in the name of Christianity. This makes for some difference, doesn’t it?

  • OL’ HARRY

    AS ONE WHO HAS LIVED LONG ENOUGH I HAVE TO SAY THIS TO ALL MSULIMS–DON’T WORRY FOLKS. WE LOVE HATING PEOPLE. WE HATED THE NATIVES AMERICANS, THE BALCKS, THE GERMANS, THE JAPS, THE RUSSIANS, AND SO ON. NOW IT IS YOU. IN THOSE DAYS, WE CALLED THEM TERRORISTS OR SOMETHING SIMILAR. TODAY IT IS YOUR TURN. ALAS! THE BUSHIES HAVE EXPOSED US. OTHERWISE WE WOULD HAVE GOTTEN AWAY WITH MAKING MORE ENEMIES. NOW THE ENTIRE WORLD HATES US. ‘YOU SHALL REAP AS YOU SOW”. AND WE ARE……PEACE TO YOU ALL.

  • Alexandra

    Rather than castigating Westerners for grouping all Muslims under the terrorism umbrella, Nabil and other moderates should show us by example and by interpreting the Quran in a peaceful fashion that Islam is a religion of peace. Otherwise, the castigations will not serve to change the current stereotypes.

  • George

    Viejita del oeste, of course you’re catholic:) On the web anyone can be anything.Your comparison of what the Somalis are doing with pharmacists and religious right types at school boards is disingenuous. It sort of reminds me of a well worn muslim argument that they should be allowed to bullhorn the muezzin’s call (5 times a day) because church bells are rung. Pharmacists and school boards make a lot of noise until a lawsuit appears. Build an anatomically correct Christ in chocolate or display the crucifix in urine, you get strong verbal reactions. Make movie (Theo van Gogh) or write a book (Salman Rushdie) you get a strong physical reaction. Still don’t see the difference? Here’s a trick: next time you’re in Minnesota, go to any of the Somali cabbies and say you find their behavior ‘troubling’…Report back.

  • Jeremy

    BLAISEP:The proof is in the pudding. All manner of rationalizations and defenses can’t hold a candle to the experiences under Islamic rule that is the reality for many people today. “A few bad Muslims”, my tookus. One could easily argue that those of you who take up a moderate approach to Islam are being bad Muslims, because the Koran so clearly states how non-believers, those not of the Umma, are to be treated.Christianity has become mild in comparison because it had it’s civil war…the Reformation. In America many sects lived together under one government (Baptist, Presbyterian, Quaker, even Jew) because those people had just left a continet wracked by religious warfare.Islam has not yet had its internal squabbling. In my opinion, it may be best to let the Shia and Sunni kill each other, so that Muslims left over will be foreced to see the value of religious tolerance.

  • Kamal Rahman

    While some terrorists giving fatwa to kill non-believers while hiding in the caves in the name of Islam, we see prominant Christian politicians openly calling for bombing and destroying a Muslim country in the name of long term security!! We hear everyday religious TV leaders introducing hatred with lies. Misunderstanding of Islam by a few Muslims does not need to be seen as an opportunity to settle scores for the past.There are too many differences in religions; Let us seek the common ground and save lives if we can or just abstain from encouraging more violence.After all, the largest killing of Christians, Muslims and Jews were not carried out by none other than The Hitler; Although insignificant, I am not sure of his religion. You see, it matters more when we come forward to save lives and seek least confrontational way to do this.

  • Tarig

    Islam!

  • RE: Truthful

    Do you want my name? Come get it. You read things hear and there, what an intellectual you are! Fantastic! In today’s world if you were to say such things toward politicians, athletes, or clergy you’d find yourself playing a nice fine for slander or doing some time in the local prison getting reamed from behind.

  • RE: Tarig

    “Its followers, and I am one of them and hate myself for that” Then you aren’t one you fool.

  • susan a

    Can’t they put a maximum limit on the post size?But here’s the questions: Do majority moderate Muslims fail to speak out against terror because:I suspect its #1, but if the US doesn’t clean up our act and the Muslims wise up, it will soon be #2

  • Jeremy

    Kamal:In the case of my government bombing Muslim countries, our current leader is an idiot. But he will be replaced by the vote within two years, probably by a Democrat who remove us from Iraq. We will thus have corrected out stance.The point of Franks long post and those of others is to show that the eveils perpetrated by Islam are not limited to a “few terrorists in some caves” but worldwide assaults by Muslims against non-muslims on a regular basis. You are ignoring reality. We can certainly find common ground, but the debate becomes fruitless until you admit the current extent of Islamic atrocities, ESPECIALLY those commited by one Muslims ect aaginst another. Will you blame America for the Sunni driving a chlorine bomb into a Shia market?

  • Peligius

    I agree that if you posted something about people getting hit by lighting each day in chronological order it would appear to happen all the time. But is that really a good analogy here? What if there were a racially motivated killing of a black by a white in our country every day by a group of christian fundamentalists. Would it ring true to say “well there are millions of christians and you can’t just judge us all by the extremists?” No, I think there would (rightly) be a hue and a cry. People would wonder what it is about christianity that makes some so violent. I would say it this way: Islam, just like Christianity, is not inherently (or at least no necessarily) violent but it has gone through periods of history of peaceful tendencies and violent tendencies. We are in a period of history where Islam is a violent religion as practiced, even though the teachings don’t necessarily mean there has to be violence. Your typical muslim is not a suicide bomber, but he is either sympathetic with or afraid to speak out against the suicide bomber. I think that reflects the reality.

  • William

    The history of Islam is routed in violence. This dates back to the death of Muhammad. After which the expansion of Islam took place by forcing people to convert or be killed. The actual cause of the crusades was a reaction to the murdering of African Christians during this expansion period who cried out for help. It was ordinary Christians that came to fight Islam as a way of defending their fellow believers. (ironically this Islamic violence in Africa has been a contemporary problem in places like Sudan)Islamic violence grew international acclaim again after world war II when the Jewish Zionist lobbied to get the nation of Israel established at its current location. The neighboring Islamic countries invaded 3 times vowing to wipe Israel off the face of the map. After 3 invasions Israel learned to read the signs of aggression and successfully attacked and destroyed the enemy that had gathered together on its borders. At some point during these 4 wars, they took the Gaza strip. I will give Egypt credit for leading the way in recognizing Israel as a nation and working toward peace between the two nations despite strong opposition by the rest of the Islamic world. Then in the late 70’s Islamic terrorism began it’s cycle of violence against the western world by hijackings killing,and bombings from the U.S., the U.K. and elsewhere. You name it, Anywhere Islamic people live there is Islamic terrorism taking place. There is a culture of death and violence that follows them and cannot be ignored any longer. The western world has tried everything from negotiating, capitulation and even war. I do not know why, but Islam has become a plague on the world like cancer.The true nature of Isam can be found in it’s loudest voice. Iran. If Islam is to be known as peaceful religion, a louder voice must come from somewhere or someone.

  • Peter Brawley

    Nabil Fahmy,The Quran demands that infidels be murdered, that apostates from Islam be murdered, that women be murdered for any one of a number of disobediences to their male “masters”, and so on. Islam is not the only religion whose “holy book” recommends such atrocities. But other religions have become more tolerant, and Islam, by and large, has not. The world is not now suffering a wave of terrorism from Norwegian protestants or Argentinian catholics. It is suffering a wave of terrorism from Islamic terrorists. Rather than try to persuade us into believing, absurdly, that this epidemic of lunatic Islamic violence is not driven by Islam, why don’t you try to persuade violent Muslims to become more peaceful?

  • Daniel

    Wow. This comment forum is a mess. I think we have all demonstrated how utterly depraved religion is. Too bad for us all, I suppose.

  • Zain

    Jeremy:”The proof is in the pudding. All manner of rationalizations and defenses can’t hold a candle to the experiences under Islamic rule that is the reality for many people today.”You are correct, life is hard for Muslims in quite a few Muslim countries, but with the exception of Iraq and Afghanistan (arguably messes made worse because of U.S and Soviet intervention) the problems are not worse than say the violence in non-Muslim African countries (Rwanda, Uganda, Sierra Leone etc.), Latin American countries (FARC, Guatemala, El Salvador etc). The reason for bringing this up is not that violence and poor governance should be excused in Muslim countries (Which is an argument Richard Cohen used in his op piece to exonerate Israeli abuses), but that there are underlying social, economic and political issues that these conflict ridden regions have in common. Religion is but a tool used to exploit and exacerbate the situation by extremists. Someone else implied that Tariq Ramadan was an extremist masquerading as a liberal. Any quotes or writings you can attribute to him to back that up? I only heard about him recently and am interested in finding out what exactly he said that makes some in the West think he is two faced.

  • RE: Jeremy

    I will blame American for bringing war to the Iraqi people and the region. how about that?

  • Hussein

    Okay, you all got me. There are over one billion Muslims and they are all either terrorists or supportive of terrorism. With the exception of myself.I am still not going to speak up.But I promise I’ll speak up when ALL present-day Christians and Jews apologize for their ancestors’ atrocities against Muslims and start making raparations.Until then, keep yapping.

  • Hinda Blas

    Don’t judge an entirety based on the actions of a few. I agree with this HOWEVER, there is one small difference. During WWII, many Japanese as well as Germans did everything they could to show their patriotism for their adopted country, the US. Many even volunteered to work as interpreters for the US Military and even to expose those who were working for the Nazis and the Japanese Government. But where is the condemnation today? Where are the millions who are condemning the actions of those who support suicide bomb belters, CAIR and other well-known supporters of Islamic Terrorism?I do not want to judge the actions of a few for a whole faith, yet why are the masses so silent? There is a direct distinction between Islamics within the US and many other religionists. Except for the partners of the Islamic Jihadists, the KKK/Neo-Nazis, most other people who have their faith will stand up against any extremist within their midsts. The late Rabbi Meir Kahane may have had followers, but he also had many within the Jewish communities of the US who condemned him. Father Conklin, who was verily anti-semitic during the 1930s had people condemning him who were Catholic. But where are those condemning the terrorist supporters of CAIR, Hatem Bazian (UC-Berkeley Professor), the late Edward Said, the late Yassir Arafat, the late Sheikh Yassin, etc. Absent.Like the partners of Islamic terrorists of over 60+ years ago, the appeasement made to the Nazis by Europe proved that appeasement does not work. As the late Winston Churchill stated, “IF one appeases the enemy, then one deserves to get a knife in the back from the enemy.”So, in closing, Mr. Nabil Fahmy, I ask you to show me how to trust you and yours. How do I, a person who is of a faith that depending on who’s the interpretation deserves to be murdered by trees and rocks. Please explain to me the honor in murdering a child in the name of Honor Killing. Explain how the lies of Arafat is being taught as truth by your bretheren who somehow became professors in our universities, along with others who appease Nazis.I will stop judging when you and others finally do stand up and say “NOT IN THE NAME OF MY FAITH, AND NOT ON THE HEAD OF MY CHILD WILL I ALLOW YOU TO DESTROY WHAT IS HOLY TO ME.” Until then – it’s not a go.

  • James Michael

    Muslims need to just get over the hatred and spite. There may be very few killing, but there are millions allowing it to happen, without say one word. I don’t think this religion is peaceful, kind or tollerant. One just need look at how this religion treats members within Islam to know that they only know intollerence and hate. It is time for the majority of Islam to condemn what is going on and then start doing something about it.

  • Kathleen Anne Degelder

    I have read the Quaran, even in it’s moderated version in English, it’s quite virulent. The Bible and the Torah relies on God for justice. Heaven or hell.The religion is quite archaic and relies on history. There’s just too many bombings for me to feel that the Muslims are not trying hard enough to quell this problem, they are too busy defending their faith.

  • Curious Cat

    Do MUSLIMS have middle names? If not, how about INTOLERANCE? Or CRAZY? Or FANATIC? Sounds appropriate to me…

  • frank collins

    reading through the comments i see some pretty funny things. i like the one that says that not all islamics read this column therefore we are to supposed that if they did they would all tell us how peaceful islam is and how they just love everybody. but none of them will ever say that the koran should be purged of their hateful verses.”4.90″: Except those who reach a people between whom and you there is an alliance, or who come to you, their hearts shrinking from fighting you or fighting their own people; and if Allah had pleased, He would have given them power over you, so that they should have certainly fought you; therefore if they withdraw from you and do not fight you and offer you peace, then Allah has not given you a way against them. “4.91”: You will find others who desire that they should be safe from you and secure from their own people; as often as they are sent back to the mischief they get thrown into it headlong; therefore if they do not withdraw from you, and (do not) offer you peace and restrain their hands, then seize them and kill them wherever you find them; and against these We have given you a clear authority. and katrina – well she only wants to find love. well darlin – dont go to the middle east – you will not find it there. victoria – just another loving islamic that will not renounce the above portions of the koran, which call for hate, torture, and forced acceptance of islam. i wonder why the peaceful people of islam will not do that.and malleck you still at that lie stage about the peaceful conversion of people by islam. anyone with a computer can read that you are just wrong. i believe that i have already posted the true facts.jeff you want to compare 2,000,000 christians to a few thousand in the balkins? saddam was killing 5,000 a month and you want to call what is part of a battle for land with a genocide? poor boy – you are proof that a degree does not mean intelligence, or even wisdome.and no one appears to be able to point to any religion but islam that requires forced conversions and murder and hate. please, look at the portions of the koran above and give us the context to make hate and murder just a happy place where islam can take the world.as for religion as a spiritural matter, i have not even touched on that. its not the spirit part i reject its that pesky killing part while peoplea re still alive, and in accord with the written dictates of islam.so lets here the rejection of those parts of the koran, [and be specific] lets see marches in the street by islamics to guarantee the rights of jews and christians to live in peace even in the middle east, and maybe we will be on the path for wordly peace, until then its just islam doing what islam does, lying and killing.

  • Anonymous

    “Do MUSLIMS have middle names? If not, how about INTOLERANCE? Or CRAZY? Or FANATIC? Sounds appropriate to me…”Those would cause too much confusion, since they are already taken by the Bushies and various other Islamophobes as seen on this site…

  • Peligius

    Dang it. Hussein thinks I owe him reparations. First I owe reparations to blacks, and now I owe them to Muslims. Is there anyone else I need to pay off so that the violence can stop?

  • Anonymous

    “I will stop judging when you and others finally do stand up and say “NOT IN THE NAME OF MY FAITH, AND NOT ON THE HEAD OF MY CHILD WILL I ALLOW YOU TO DESTROY WHAT IS HOLY TO ME.” Until then – it’s not a go.”Right, and Americans should be judged as war mongers and intolerant murderers and economic colonizers till they stop instigating wars, supporting apartheid like policies, overthrowing democratically elected governments because they are not pro US in favor of dictators etc. Do you really want to be held responsible for all the atrocities committed by the U.S?

  • sam

    Dear Frank,

  • win

    Those condemning Islamic government’s might consider the fact that Israel is a Jewish government. There are Israel laws and at least some practices which are against other religions. Indeed one issue many in Israel has is Christians that go there and hand out bibles and try to convert Jewish people.The Bible, and the Torah both of their unsavory parts too. Such is religion, and I am a religious person. Hopefully those that practice religion rise above such things and practice peacefully. It might also be wise to remember that some faithful of both the Christian and Jewish religion still support violence if the end meets their needs.

  • Peligius

    Yeah, other than liberate us from England, free the slaves, end the holocaust and defeat Nazi-ism, facism and communism, what has American military action ever really accomplished?

  • RE: Frank Collins

    pick and chose without any knowledge of historical events and times is a childish way to ‘sway’ people. Face it, war in any time period is ruthless and it is supposed to be. Shock and Awe was meant to be ruthless, the bliztkreg was ruthless, atomic bombs are ruthless but are acceptable in terms of warfare and conquest but not acceptable in terms of justice and humanity. Never once did you admit that the pagans and jews were hostile to the first Muslims. Never did you mention their torture, murder, rape, pillage of goods and property. Never once did you mention the deceitful treaties and conspiracies to kill the Muslims. Never once did you put verse 1 with 2. Never once could any of you Islamophobes admit that Islamic history contains high points and should focus on those high points. And never did any of you fools bring up the role in politics, greed, imperialism and colonialism.

  • CMB

    Wow! What a bunch of whiney little brats you are. “My daddy can beat up your daddy,” “Well, your relative raped & murdered my relative back during the Punic Wars/Crusades/WWII,” “I won’t say sorry until you do,” and the topper…”Death to (fill in the blank)” You all point the finger at each other, declaring you won’t stop until the other does. You scream it’s not your fault, but tolerate those who commit violence and won’t condemn them. Wah-wah-wah. All of you just shut the h**l up. This is exactly what happens when you let a bunch of juvenile deliquents and old men brainwashed by religion run amok, killing in the name of some mass psychosis-induced daddy figure. They ruin countries and kill people who just want to live in peace (could interpret that as some current Western leaders or Islamic fundementalists, eh?). A pox on both your houses…I hope you’re all wrong about your God and he’s pi**ed at ALL of you! BE NICE TO EACH OTHER!!!!!!

  • Truthful

    I don’t know which planet do you live on? When did someone in America end up in prison for calling a politician a crook or a sex-maniac or whatever the case might have been? Where do you live? In Osama’s cave? I noticed that you decided to ignore my questions, because you don want have an answer. You would rather now kill me because it has now become your cultist duty. You guys rather kill any one who raises an unanswerable question about the founder of your cult. He was a sex-maniac. This is the reason that even those who are reasonably among you are sacred to speak up, because one of you fanatics would kill him. But this is America; we have freedom of speech, the real reason for its strength and glory. America is so great that even you would fanatics would give any thing to get a Green Card. You wife-beating, child-molesting, sex-maniac, bottom-washing hypocrites!

  • Truthful

    Above, I meant, “because you don’t have an answer.”

  • Anonymous

    “Yeah, other than liberate us from England, free the slaves, end the holocaust and defeat Nazi-ism, facism and communism, what has American military action ever really accomplished?”Caused the deaths of million in Latin America in pursuit of “anti-left” regimes, installed dictatorships, massacred Indians after stealing from and degrading them, using false pretexts to instigate war (manifest destiny), annex Mexican land and then displace the original inhabitants of the occupied land, initiate war in Vietnam and perpetrate numerous atrocities upon the local populace when meeting resistance, instigate war in Iraq and perpetrate atrocities on the local populace when meeting resistance. Overthrow democratically elected government in Iran in favor of a dictator and support his brutal regime till overthrown by current brutal, but popular, regime.

  • Hussein

    Frank:You are right! But so what?I ain’t apologizing for Mo’s pedophelia or Islamic terrorism – I wasn’t there. But, please, keep referencing and compiling Muslim shortcomings. Before you know it, I might start adhering to all the nasty stuff in my religion that I paid no heed to before you edified me.You can kill us all, but wherever you go, there we are. For Christians, your ghosts of sins past. For Jews, your modern day Golems.PS: I lost some money in the Milken and Boesky thing. Could you send me a reparation check?PELIGIOUS: It is not that you have to pay anyone off so the violence can stop. It is that you are enjoying the fruits of violence committed by your ancestors while others are still paying the consequences of that violence. To make it a level plain field, you’d have to give back alot. But I suspect you are not willing to. You will equivocate – you are not responsible for your father’s sins. Yet you will demand that I take responsibilty for my cousin’s sins – a cousin seven times removed.

  • wayne

    ed,

  • Peter

    I think we all (or those of us who read the news) agree that Islam is *not* a religion of peace. It is though, a much younger, and more precocious religion than Christianity. As has been stated, the muslim world will have to, in time, experience an “enlightenment” much as those in the Christian world did, realizing that reality and science and justice exist outside of what organized religion teaches and demand our attention and commitment in equal part. The separation of the sacred and the secular was a process that Christianity did not accept willingly (just ask Pope Pius XII), but one that needed to happen for the emergence of consciousness of the people in the christian world.

  • Andrew

    It is frightening that an Egyptian ambassador to the United States is trying to compare the Crusades to Islamic terrorism.

  • Hussein

    PETER:Bear in mind that I am not a practicing Muslim. I am married to a Christina and my children are neither this or that.Still – you are absolutely wrong. The onus should not be put on Muslims to miraculously change.I have a simpler solution. Make the West stop being self-indulgent in its consumerist ethos. This will be of multiple benefits to the world: return to truer christian values = less conspicuous consumption = less emphasis on economic growth = less need for market expansion = less need for coersive tactics in enforcing competitive advantage over third world economies = less turmoil in third world = less oil consumption = less war in the ME = less terrorism.navel gazing never did anyone any good, especially when you are gazing at someone else’s navel. so pick at your own navel, pal. don’t tell me what to do with mine

  • jim

    you all need to chill, we’re all human

  • Roy

    If the Quran tells Muslims to convert or kill infidels, how can we trust Muslims? Likewise, how can we trust the Christian extremists that believe we must kill Muslims for oil or to protect Israel?

  • Hussein

    PETER:Bear in mind that I am not a practicing Muslim. I am married to a Christian and my children are neither this or that.Still – you are absolutely wrong. The onus should not be put on Muslims to miraculously change.I have a simpler solution. Make the West stop being self-indulgent in its consumerist ethos. This will be of multiple benefits to the world: return to truer christian values = navel gazing never did anyone any good, especially when you are gazing at someone else’s navel. so pick at your own navel, pal. don’t tell me what to do with mine

  • Caesar

    Jeremy is SO right. SO accurate. SO REVEALING> Clearly, it is we Americans who brought murder, theft, and more murder, upon the peaceful Iraqis. Iraqis may have blue index fingers, but, they also have yellow backbones.EVERY people have the government they deserve.

  • CMB

    Why is it that the Islamic apologists continue to use Vietnam, South America, etc. as wars on countries perpetuated by “Christian nations?” Proclamations by Jerry Falwell, Pat Robertson and George Bush aside, this and other Western countries aren’t “Christian nations.” The majority of people might consider themselves Christians, but by no means do modern Western nations identified themselves as religious states, unlike the majority of Muslim countries. As Thomas Jefferson and other deist Founding Fathers of the U.S. intended, this nation at least is a secular one (though we fight the influence of the overtly fascist ultra-right Christian conservatives). Yes, I agree that the West has had undue influence on the Muslim world for quite sometime, just as the Muslim world did in large parts of Europe and Asia during the Dark Ages, but we can’t continue to have this tit-for-tat revenge and retribution culture on either side. It’s hard to have empathy and want to challenge and change our own shortcomings here in the West when attempts at dialogue and NGO assistance is spat on by Islamic governments and common people. Hard to have sympathy and want to help when your people are being kidnapped and beheaded. Islamic fundamentalists want the West to stop treating them like backwoods relatives? Stop killing those who want to help and would like to respect your beautiful countries and peoples again…or is fear and hate really the only emotions you care about anymore? Stop the finger pointing on both sides and just BE NICE TO EACH OTHER!

  • Paul

    Sir Second point – STOP talking about the Crusades. It’s the cheapest kind of historical victim-hood that exists. Do Austrians go around blowing themselves up, and justifying it because the Muslim Turks were at the gates of Vienna during the 16th-18th centuries?

  • mark

    “Can’t we all just get along?” Judging from mankind’s history, the answer is a resounding no. Whatever the justification (religion, resources, etc), we just can’t stop killing each other. That pretty much sums it up. Christianity vs. Islam = McCoys vs Hatfields.

  • Concerned The Christian Now Liberated

    Continuation of the cleansing of the Koran.”6. To believe that Allah Most High has knowledge of everything from before-hand and that only that which He sanctions or wishes will occur.”This is invalidated by the natural/inherent/God-given gifts/attributes of the human race i.e. Free Will and Future.As per the theologian Edward Schillebeeckx, We must give up a perverse, unhealthy and inhuman “Nothing is determined in advance: in “7. To believe that Resurrection will definitely occur.”The spiritual resurrection occurs at each death. There will be no physical resurrection from common sense considerations i.e. Heaven is a spirit state i.e. no bodies to include those of Jesus, Mary, Moses etc. can reside there.”8. To believe in the existence of Heaven.”Acceptable but it exists only as a spirit state.”9. To believe in the existence of Hell.”Maybe, maybe not. Some say if one dies is significant sin, that person’s soul will simply no longer exist since God/Allah does not tolerate imperfection in the Kingdom. “10. To have love for Allah Most High.”Of course, just like there is love of all creatures, spiritual and living. Again there has to be an all-inclusive statement for Allah, i..e. aka God, Yahweh, Mother Nature, Jehovah, etc.

  • Tom

    Muslims all over the world give their TACIT approval of “jihad” against the west. They know that they’ll come to no harm either way it turns out. They can sit back and watch the death and destruction of western people and institutions and murmur (behind closed doors) that the west had it coming.I will not believe that muslims are against terrorism until they work to stop it.tac•it (tasit)

  • Brad

    A recent survey conducted said that 3 out of every 10 Muslims favor Bin Laden and his actions. Thats a lot of people. Hmmm…

  • B-Man

    No follower of any of the 3 Abrahamic traditions (Christianity, Judaism, Islam) can *ever* claim that their religion in essentially one of peace. In order to do so, you would have to tear out pages and pages and pages from all 3 holy books and pretend they never existed.This “no really, my religion is about peace” argument gets very old, very tiresome.Read your holy books. All three are narratives of a terrorist god and his brutally murderous ways of dealing with non-believers.

  • Hans B

    Religion doesn’t matter. In the same way that a Christian can theoretically agree with Jesus’ admonition to give half of his belongings to the biblical poor, and then refuse to give a penny to the real-life poor, a Sri-Lankan Buddhist can preach tolerance and then burn a bus full of Hindus, a Muslim can be violent or not, it really has nothing to do with religion. I live in a Muslim-dominated neighborhood and it’s very peaceful (I just regret the absence of girls in the bars). In fact I moved there because I was sick and tired of the violence and prostitution in my former – non-Muslim – block.Of course one can find justification in religion for whatever one wants to do anyway. As a French bishop said during the Albi crusade, when asked how to distinguish between heretics and christians in the newly conquered town of Béziers: “Kill them all, God will recognize those that are His”. Reading the same Bible Mother Teresa devoted her life to helping the poor of Calcutta. It says nothing about the Bible.The present wave of violence is not religious but fear-based. The US became extraordinarily violent towards Arabs and Muslims in general after 9/11, even if it doesn’t appear to realize it. And the Muslims – not because of religion, however much they wear its flag – responded in kind. It’s even hard to know who started – on the Muslim side the fear has been there for some time now, because of Israel, because of US cultural dominance and the angst of cultural alienation, and very often also because ignorance breeds paranoia.Fear breeds fear, it is the real culprit. I often am reminded of the Lithany Against Fear from the novel Dune :

  • Eduardo

    Thank you Mr. Ambassador, thank you who have a tollerant and sober tone.The problem with Christianity, Islam or any other religion is not about its content but about how it is used, how it is preached, how it is used – for even good things can be used for evil.I am a Christian, and am conscious that the history of Christendom is full of examples of that.And I don’t agree that there is no people willing to kill in the name of Christianity nowadays. Most of you guys live in the US. Try to come down to Latin America.The problem has not to do with religion. It has to do with underdevelopment. And not only economic, but social, moral, institutional development.Americans are pretty lucky to have had so wise founding fathers implementing such a well framed constitution. And even in this framework abuses can be committed, in the name of good. Why not in less lucky countries, which have not had the opportunity to begin anew their institutional histories? Which have to deal, everytime, every day, at each moment, with the enourmous and urgent problems of today, as well as those of tomorrow, and at the same time carrying the weight of past?Let Muslims have their faith! Let moderate Muslims build up new relationships! The problem is not religion, but violence, underdevelopment, fundamental rights, rule of law and democracy.Can a country without due process of law be considered a democracy? Without control of judge’s good behaviour? Without effective independence of powers? How to do that without an effective and detailed party system? How can an englightened despot, if such a figure ever existed, promote democracy in his own country if their legal experts, scholars and judges, cannot find a way to to legally exclude a totalitarianist, pseudo-religious group from elections? In such case, violence is such a strong temptation – but the rule of law is not helped either.As a Latin American citizen, I would suggest America to think about ways to use its huge scholarly resources to study the reality abroad and help framing up institutional solutions that foster democratic developments.Think about using your commercial and economic power to promote peace and democracy in the world fommenting institutional changes that promote democracy and tollerance. With a good checklist and not only declarations of good intentions on paper.Is there actually anyone well informed enough to know what has actually been done about democracy in Irak? Is the young institutional framework prepared for the challenges it is going to face when (because that’s a matter of when not whether) American troops leave? Is it prepared to face the new totalitarianism of 21th century?When faced with a totalitarian movement disguised as one political party, as an actor of democracy, Germany fell, despite all its Christian background, despite all its intellectual, cultural, economic resources. Aren’t we too strict with Muslim countries?Whether minoritarian of no, there are moderate Muslims. They should deserve some sympathy. At least they seem to have had that of Locke. And if we are to have some peace in this world, they should also deserve some help – not with guns, but with intelligence (and sometimes guns). It would be way more fair to America’s own profession of tollerance and rule of law than condemning Muslims or any other people for their beliefs.

  • AaronZ

    Frank Collins said it all.Thanks Frank! I saved the info you posted.

  • asean

    I hail from India; there is deep resentment there against Muslim conquest, occupation, and rule over India. Mr. Fahmy talks about the Crusades, but the occupation and degradation of the people of the Indian sub-continent continued until the arrival of the British. Many houses of worship in India were destroyed, and hundred of thousands put to the sword.Like any other people, there are lots of wonderful gentle, loving, generous Muslim people, but unlike others, there are also lots of very nasty, narrowminded, bigoted, hateful people as well – people who may actually do harm if given the chance because they believe that their religion gives them sanction. What is alarming is that the same intolerant mindset is there across all the Muslim populations from different cultures — southern phllipines, Uzbekistan, Middle East, down to Nigeria. The common thread for all these people is the religion they practice.

  • Pete

    I just racked up 181 pages of lists of Muslim atrocities from reading this list. I’d like to make a few points:People who practice Christianity and also practice violence against others do so contrary to the teachings of Jesus of Nazareth.Even Hitler considered himself a Christian as he slaughtered the Jews during the Second World War. Irish Catholics and Irish Protestants killed each other, not so much over religious differences but political ones based on power relations.The bishops and popes of the middle ages were violent because hey were the law of the land and saw themselves as both “sacred” and “profane” rulers. This doesn’t excuse the violence because the excuse was to use their power over people to grab land and riches while promsing heaven for the meek. Since the existence of heaven is sheer speculation, only fools fall for the trade. In an earlier life PT Barnum was probably selling indulgences to Martin Luther before he got smart and told the pope to kiss off.However, I do not believe people who tell me that there is a culture of Islamic states that is peaceful. That is wishful thinking. The Islamic religion and the cultural excesses that go with it – honor killings and midieval magical thinking – are the very essence of Islam. I cannot see where any Islamic country has given the world anything of benefit since the 11th century when it seems there was a flowering of science, the arts, and humanities. Since then, despite the successes of the Ottoman Empire, etc. all I hear is fatalistic whining about how bad they have it and seem forced out of desperation to kill each other over matters nobody has a clue about, such as the existence of heaven, hell, or angels – none of which we see. There have been o life saving inventions, major humane causes, advances in medicine, etc. All that has been surrendered to the rational and scientific thinking of the West. That is notthe West’s problem, but Islam’s abandonment of intellect.Despite the failings of CHristians, and there are very many, spreading the Gospel has been a matter of conversion by conviction. I doubt we can come up with very many convert or die episodes in Christianity in the past several hundred years.The world is and has been a brutal place and the use of religion to tribalize existence and make demons of the “Other” is a fine art practiced all over the world by the “Sons of Abraham.”Only Islam kills in the name of its God. That tells me that it is not an Abramic religion at all, but more like a sacrifical holocaust that true believers must believe in or be rendered apostate. The Palestinians have been suffering for the past 50 years, but I have yet to see any attempt by any Islamic nation to render real assistance to the Palestinian people. Lots of money to buy weapons, but no lessons in becoming independent of their circumstances. Rooted in hatred for the Jews, they would rather send their own children to death than practice any rational discourse. Any so called religion that sends its own children to die in the name of a diety, and recruits people to die in the name of god, is a pagan religion because the god they woship is a god of death. End of story.

  • TOM2

    Islam is a death cult.

  • george

    ” Peligius:Dang it. Hussein thinks I owe him reparations. First I owe reparations to blacks, and now I owe them to Muslims. Is there anyone else I need to pay off so that the violence can stop?”You need to pay off (and you will) Stephen Schwarzmann of The Blackstone Group (he’s worth $20 billion) and he wants to buy Chrysler from Daimler-Benz but first those UAW guys gotta forgo health and pension benefits.IOW, Peligius, you owe Stevie $$$ so he can plant his rock garden in the Hamptons (last year’s cost on annuals $563,327.65).Reparations are from you and me. Once we get past this, we can focus on the Somali cabbies.

  • BGutierrez

    The overwhelming number of posts against islam in a radicalized fashion should be taken simply for what it is: radical and full of hate. Posts like this can hardly be said to be representative of what most Americans think as there is a huge selection bias in terms of who is motivated to write. I see no exception here.For the record, Mr. Collins is no doubt a gentile and has absolutely nothing to say in terms of criticizing other religions for persecuting people and raging GENOCIDE across the globe. He should have ZERO to say on this matter and only succeeds in making himself look intolerant, unwordly, uncultured, and poorly educated.

  • frank collins

    instead of saying poor me, im islamic and people dont like me so ignore them, try answering the numerous questions that have been posed. reject those portions of the koran that demand hate and forced membership in islam.

  • Henry James

    Frankget help immediately.how can you post 1,000 line postings?I hope you don’t own a gun

  • Amjad Wyne

    To Frank Collins, why don’t you tell us about your faith with a proof so we are not unnecessarily discussing someone else’s religion and I take the responsibility of providing you a list that is at least twice as long as you have been able to come up with for a population that stands at about 1.5 Billion…The fact that you have included in your list a large number of acts that were committed under foreign occupations tells a lot about your desparation…good try.To others in the same category, mind your own faith…no one is asking you to become Muslims so whay are you so upset. This is not something you have to practice.

  • Amjad Wyne

    To Frank Collins, why don’t you tell us about your faith with a proof so we are not unnecessarily discussing someone else’s religion and I take the responsibility of providing you a list that is at least twice as long as you have been able to come up with for a population that stands at about 1.5 Billion…The fact that you have included in your list a large number of acts that were committed under foreign occupations tells a lot about your desparation…good try.To others in the same category, mind your own faith…no one is asking you to become Muslims so whay are you so upset. This is not something you have to practice.

  • frank collins

    again you change the subject and refuse to answer about islam. my religion is of no moment. i do not belong to a religion that says to hate anyone not my religion and i definitely dont belong to any religion that says torture and murder those who will not join my religion.and again, i do not say anything about the religious part of islam. pray where and to whom you want. think your the only path to heaven. pretend you are the chosen people through ishmael, even though there is not a bit of proof to show it is true. believe how you want, i dont care.

  • Glen

    Amjad Wyne, the reason no one is requiring Frank Collins or you or anyone else to practice Islam is because you are probably in America or some some other country that honors “freedom of religion.” In an Islamic Nation you are required to practice Islam or face death. Get your head out of the sand Amjad Wyne. If Islamic ideology controls, then their is no freedom of religion.

  • Jeremy

    To Amjad and others:I have been reading this forum off and on all afternoon. I have yet to see a serious discussion of the atrocities Frank has posted that occur in Islam’s name. “Foreign” occupation to many Muslims is equivalent to “non-Muslim” rule. The typical response to Frank’s postings by many people here is to wave it away with a magic wand by claiming that “Christians/Amerika/The West is just as bad but I don’t have the time to compile a list of recent atrocities done by Christians in the name of Christianity/America/The West.”Even if you can put together such a list, Amjad, that list does not negate or take away the Islamic background for the atrocities committed in Allah’s name.How do you deal with the attacks by Sunni against Shia-non combatants in iraq? Do you believe the Sunni who drives a truck bomb into a market is doing so because he believes everyone buying fish or bread are actually working with the hated Americans?No, Amjad, they do not do so. They blow up the Shia for one simple reason: They believe them to be infidels.That is how your religion treats the unbeliever. After all, they are only doing what it clearly states in the Koran to do, which is to destroy the infidel.You may point your finger at the west, at America or Christianity all you want and you will find much for which we must answer. Must this does not take away from the eveil perpetrated by Muslims at the present time.Note the difference: It is one thing to say that these are evil men doing bad things in the name of islam, and another to say they are Muslim. But a very very large proportion of Muslims today believe suicide bombings are an acceptable form of combat. Therefore, one may reasonably believe the problem lies not with insane men misinterpreting the Koran…the problem lies with ISLAM.

  • Regina

    In the name of Islam about 1.5 million Armenians were murdered between 1915 and 1923 by the Turkish Islamists because they were acting “to protect” their last caliphate — the crumbling to pieces and rotten Ottoman Empire. Among the victims were my grandparents’ familities. They were slaughtered refusing to convert to Islam.We, Armenians and our friends worldwide, among which I do not see any neoconservatives, commemorate their memory today. Would Nabil Fahmy join us and condemn the first genocide of the 20th century? Or human sacrifices in the name of Islam and the preservation of the Caliphate are justified?

  • Jack

    The lack of actual knowledge, let alone understanding, on the part of the vast majority of posters to this site is truly astounding. One should never dilute a good, rabid, opinionated, rant with actual facts.

  • Secular

    As SECULARIST, and proud of it, I find all religion superstitious and offensive. All religions assert, with no shred of evidence that theirs is the true one. In my view all religions were born of a need to form a cohesive one of their peoples. That being said most of them have over a period of time have come to terms with the world. In that the adherents at large feel for world to function peacefully, they need to tolerate others. In most of the world, terms of the countries, the civil law has been secularized. Any draconian or religiously motivated laws still on the books are hardly enforced. On the contrary the 47 Muslim countries the civil law specifically based on Sharia if not out right Sharia. I also believe an overwhelming majority of muslims are not unlike others in the world, who want their families to have a better life than the previous generation. However, there are a few undercurrents that reign the Muslim psyche, one is the prevalence of Sharia in their countries, the Koran, an irrational obsession to the past glory of Islam, unexceptionally autocratic regimes in everyone of the Muslim countries (including Turkey). Now let me address each of the above undercurrents below:Sharia Law:Koran:Past Glory of Islam:Autocratic Regimes: The long and short of this lengthy post is there is a lot for the muslims to be introspective. Dont blame the rest of the world for your travails, you cleanup your S#@t, before you gripe about exploitation. Once you do that you will have forgotten everything that you wanted to gripe about. With that positive note CHEERS. To al the liberals of the world stop showing too much understanding to the oppressions/exploitations of the past. S%&t happened in the past to everyone sometime or the English and French were F%$&ed earlier by Romans, so and so forth. These countries woldnt be wheer they are if all they did was crying for last 2000 years that they were Sc$#@ed by Romans. To Neo-Cons and old time Cons you are not always right. Conservative is a pejorative word dont take pride in it. It means you refuse to change in face changing time and fresh evidence. Stop sticking your stupid heads in the sand.

  • Anonymous

    I don’t believe in a God. It can be very depressing. Think about this for a moment. All 3 monotheistic (Abrahamic) religions find someone like me to be a threat above all. The non-believer is always thrust to the forefront of sinners. So, I can kill myself, convert, lie, become a kick ass tattoo artist, rebel and face hell or I can just kill and kill again like every other bastard. See, I can learn God’s way without ever becoming born again. Okay, some days I really do want to hurt people with religious stickers on their vehicles. I do need help, help me to not be an atheist. Help me to fight for a God to the hilt. Is there somewhere I can go and see what religion fits my complexion?

  • Jeremy

    People like Jack bug me. I’ve seen a bunch of posters today say that “There’s too many ranting nutballs posting without any facts. Thw world is going to hell in a handbasket.”Enlighten us. How are those of us blasting Islam factually incorrect? Are you saying the religion of peace has nothing to do with the list of atrocities commited by Muslims? Are you saying they did not occur?Maybe you have nothing to say.

  • frank collins

    listen SECULARIST dont sugar coat it, tell us what you really think.

  • Peter Principle

    Right now I’m looking at the home page of the Washington Post web site, which has a teaser up for this post:Don’t Judge Islam’s FewIt really makes me wonder: Do the idiots who edit this newspaper understand that the crusaders were CHRISTIANS?

  • Glen

    Secular, it all means nothing unless you have separation of church and state and freedom of religion. That would allow support of your secular cause. Without freedom of religion or separatiion of church and state you have Imams telling people what to do. Don’t you just love the Imam dress-code for women? Egypt has the Muslim Brotherhood and their Imams discriminating against anything that is not Islam, big time. The religious leaders are in charge in the Islamic nations and that is not religion but it is ideology.

  • Amjad Wyne

    To Glen…trust me…your head is way deeper than mine…sand or whatever you like…If you believe that US is the only place where people have religious freedom, your head is not just deeper…it needs examination…and I hope you can get tha examination. And if you believe you have a better faith then show us and stop your rant…would you.

  • Glen

    Lori, right on. What is a moderate Muslim anyway? It is a Muslim who says nothing and does nothing but blames a Christian when the radical Muslim slit another Christian throat.

  • Glen

    Amjad Wyne, I am not talking faith. I am talking about freedom of religion and freedom of speech. Please tell me about freedom of speech and religion in Iran. Tell me why over 300 women were arrested today for violating the dress-code. Those women were aressted by the religious police. Please tell me about freedom in the most Muslim of nations in the world: Iran.

  • frank collins

    i have read the story and links more than once and i still dont know what islamic we are to judge islam by. does anyone know? we cant judge islam by the koran, it says to hate, torture, murder and force conversion, but we are not allowed to use that. when we bring it up we are told it is taken out of context, but they never give us the context to make hate, torture, and mnurder and forced conversions, acceptable becasue of some unstated context.

  • rez

    Karen Armstrong has an excellent book on Islam called “Islam”. She also describes the religious description of God in “History of God”They both describe the historical events and the meaning/context of the prophets teachings.Of course, now we live in the post cold war era when the defense industry (merchants of death) needs another great enemy to push their products. Peak oil also means that muslims are a good enemy since they sit on most of the worlds oil reserves.

  • rez

    To Frank Collins:I hope that your life is not wasted by your racism and bigotry. Humans are precious regrdless of their ethnicity or religion.Your campaign of lies and deception is not new. You seem to be regurgitating the propaganda out of Israel/US right wing.

  • A.M.

    To Frank, Pete, Jeremy and Other Ignorants:- Christian nations – not Muslims – killed 6 million Jews in Europe during WWII (not so speak of previous medieval atrocities against Jews in Europe. In Andalusia, North Africa, and the Ottoman Empire Jewish community were thriving. You ignorants, read numerous books on the topic including Miachel Walzer’s The Jewish Political Tradition. – Christian nations and people killed each other during WWI: More than 22 million Christian died at the hand of Christians, not Muslims.- Christian nations and people killed each other during WWII: More than 75 million Christian died at the hand of Christians, not Muslims.If we take into consideration time, space, number of people involved, and technolgy, an individual Christian is 15,000 times more likely to kill than an individual Muslim.Salut!

  • Amjad Wyne

    Glen, that is exactly what I meant when I said what I said. So you think Iran or its government represent Islam?..There is no concept of “Religious Police” in Islam. If Iran does it, so be it…no one has to like or approve it but it has nothing to do with the religion…You should understand that much… And Frank Collins…he is really an ambassador of his faith…I now know where he is coming from…his eyes are shut..we need to leave them that way. Franky, put together a list of how Palestinians are being butchered every day by your motherland and compare it with the list you put together here…this is the going rate…Israel kills two Palestinians and arrests ten every day…there are 365 days in a year and it has been going on now for decades…make a list of your own evil deeds and then you earn the right to make one for others.

  • Paul

    To compare today’s radical Muslims with the Crusades of Christianity is preposterous for the simple reason that the Crusades ended SEVEN HUNDRED YEARS ago. Christians still believe in many things which I do not believe in, but it has been centuries since Christians of any sect killed disbelievers. Christianity has grown with the modern world, while Islam is still stuck in the stone ages.The terrorists may, in some sense, represent a “small” percentage of Islam but even Islamic countries that supposedly oppose terrorism are secular dictatorships in which people are not able to think and speak freely. People cannot freely practice their religion. Gay people face execution. Women are forced to wear veils and are denied basic human rights. I believe that there are many decent Muslims — but they cannot cry about how their religion is “unfairly” viewed when they sit quietly as bloodshed is waged in the name of Mohammed. And it’s not just the terrorists. A cartoon in a newspaper can make these supposedly “average” Muslims engage in deadly riots? I dont see Catholics rioting when the Pope is mocked (as he is on a daily if not hourly basis). Where are the Muslims demanding that Islam be brought into the 21st century? Heck, I’d settle for Islam being brought into the 19th century at this point. By the 19th century, other religions had abandoned the kind of behavior that remains commonplace in Islam.So stop whining about what non-Muslims think about Islam and start talking to fellow Muslims about why it’s okay to execute gay people, deny fundamental rights to women and go on a rampage whenever someone offends your delicate feelings. When a Christian can move to a predominantly Muslim country and practice his/her religion (as a Muslim can do anywhere in the West) then Muslims can complain. Until then, get your house in order. And stop minimizing the carnage carried out in the name of your faith.

  • Anonymous

    The last thing the world needs is a religion like Islam.

  • rez

    Dear Paul:Crusades ended 700 years ago, but killing and exploitation of the poor and disadvantaged in the hands of Christian/Jewish powers have not.(please see: Iraq, Afghanistan, Palestine, Lebanon, Southeast Asia, Africa, Latin America, Native America….etc)Nobody is pure, nobody is without guilt and shame. unfortunately, The more brutal the bully, the more it needs to protect itself.(please see USA, Israel)

  • TPS

    It is quite easy to measure where we are with the Islamists. They are fighting a war in the media, one which produces few casualties among their proported enemy, the West, but many among their owm people. The West has this choice to make: get involved and try to keep these suicidal people from killing themselves and their close neighbors or stand back and let them continue. Politics is about to force on the world the second option. We must also keep their wars confined to their borders, keep the terrorism confined to Moslem to Moslem violence, as we did during the Iran Iraq war. We must also insure that they do not acquire weapons of mass destruction. This can be accomplished from the air, possibly with the occasional Special Ops strike. Bush tried to do the right thing, to give the region a chance to enjoy democracy and peace. We now face failure in that attempt. We are now justified in taking the opposite position. So long as Moslems only kill other Moslems, we should leave them to it.

  • Paymon

    Hey Frank, do I need to remind you about the Crusades and the Spanish Inquisition and the medieval witch trials and Christians expelling entire Jewish populations or blowing each other up in Northern Ireland? No religion is unstained; as many people have died in the name of Christ as in the name of Mohammad.And, for the record, both of them are prophets and shouldn’t have their names desecrated the way they are.

  • Antoine

    I can’t imagine this much racist rubbish published in the Washington Post. I thought this was a respectable newspaper, but obviously it is not! How is possible to make such horrible generalizations about 1.5 billion people? Madness prevails in America-lunatics have taken over. By the Washington Post, is no one at home to filter this rubbish. Meacham and Quinn must get their jollies reading it.

  • Karzai

    Dear All:I have been following the bolg with interest and have noticed that there are people in this blog who has so much hatred in their heart that they turn totally blind. Islam is a great religion and it is only for the people who read it with an open mind. Few points that I want to add it is the only religion which recognizes and respects all the prophets starting from Noah, John, Joseph, Moses, Jesus and Mohammed. Even though you will find in western world some fool/ignorant try to play jokes, draw cartoons etc., of Prophet Muhammed (PBUH). You won’t find that happening in the Muslim world. Some of you have drawn a list of atrocities commited by the followers of Islam but if read the history carefully when Islam conquered other places it was always tolerant to the people of other beliefs that is why you will see Jews are still in Iran and Christens and Hindus and jews are still living in countries like Egypt, Syria, Labanon etc. Quran teaches that “la iqra ha fiddin” menaing there is no compulsion in religion. Allah guides those whom he wills and those who are misguided there is no one to guide them. We haven’t seen the other way around when Spain was reconquered people of all the faith were forced to accept christanity or were forced to leave spain. There was no religious freedom and no freedom of speech during that time. There are so many positive sides of Islam that people often don’t see or it is burried in the Chaos of the ignorant fools. Any way my request to you all is please read before you come to discuss the issues like comparative religion. If you have read the Quran please read it with an open mind and also read the background of the revealation. Lot of things will become clear. Please donot impose your twisted beliefs and ideas on others.

  • Kalidas

    Frankly, all of the Abrahamic religions are not very enlightened or useful. They all claim some particular exclusivity which is an absurd limitation of any God worth mentioning. The Jews of course are the oldest, and have managed to maintain their collective exclusion for century after century, being the chosen peoples of God. I have yet to speak with someone who cam explain what makes a Jew so special, what are the definitive attributes of the Jew that identifies him or her from the non Jew in the eyes of God?Christians have a morbid view of God as someone who would accept the brutal sacifice of his Son by humanity to attone for the terible sin of being born human. How anyone could possible accept this as an acceptable vision of God is beyond my understanding. Then they heap a whole bunch of “pagan” rituals, an insane view of the God given attributes of Man, and make a virtue of denying the humaness of Man to create a mind-deadening religion. This religion seeks to control by fear and promises that can never be defined, much less given.Finally we come to Islam. How this religion has degenerated into the current repressions of the human spirit is sad. What happening to the great traditions that carried the human spirit when Christians attempted to destroy every human though and idea?The Spirtually flavors of the Sufis, Kabalists, and maybe the Jesuits have a much more useful and enlightened understanding of what spiritual belief is all about. I believe we would all be much improved if we rejected all religions as false Gods, false paths, and enslavers of Man.

  • Jon

    The Islamic faith is judged by the deeds of its followers, not by the words of the Quran. The one billion Muslims who adhere to the peaceful teachings of Islam seem to have faded away and they have allowed “a few” radicals to define their religion for them before the eyes of their fellow man and before the eyes of God.

  • John Conolley

    On violence, here’s a thought (I believe Ayn Rand was responsible for this one): ALL THE VIOLENCE IN THE WORLD IS CAUSED BY ONE THING: THE IDEA THAT IT’S OK TO TAKE WHAT YOU WANT BY FORCE.It isn’t. It isn’t OK to liberate an apple from a fruit stand, and it isn’t OK to murder thousands to prove a point. It isn’t OK to take anything by force, ever. Stop kidding yourself, stop rationalizing, stop justifying.It isn’t right.

  • antoine

    To Jon MeachamYou profess to be a man of faith based on your early education and inclinations. But this On Faith section spreads hate and bigotry. This is not a forum for any serious discussion.

  • Alexandra Rotstein

    Surely, I needn’t add to the list of crimes committed by proponents of Islam. And all of you have acknowledged the misdeeds of Christianity, though none have chosen to post them in quite as much detail. These include crimes committed in the name of Christ as well as by nations that are primarily Christian. To those of you who are Hindus condemning the ‘Muslim bastards’, I would remind you of the massacre of Muslims by Hindus and Sikhs in Jammu in 1947, though this is only one example of such atrocities. And to all of you atheists, Hitler numbered in your ranks.My point is that violence in the name of ideology, or hidden behind the mask of ideology, is not a phenomenon unique to Islam, nor to Christianity, nor to Hindusim, nor, indeed, to religion. People will always find a way to kill what they fear—to blot out, to disfigure, that which they cannot assimilate or understand, or that which the petty psychology of experience dresses as an enemy. The anonymity of religion, the pliability of religious philosophy, and its absolutism, makes it a tool. But it is not the only tool of hatred. The ideas of racial purity that took shape in Germany after World War I had nothing to do with religion, but still were sufficient to convince millions of Germans that the only way to save their country was to rid it of its weaknesses: the Jews, the Gypsies—those not of the ‘Aryan’ race. The ideology of German racial purity even had its radical converts, such as Houston Stewart Chamberlain.It is the inability to sympathize and unwillingness to understand ‘the other’, often coupled with opposing needs or ambitions, that results in these catastrophic, violent historical clashes. One finds them so easy to characterize and to condemn because these battles take place along ideological fault lines and, whether or not we acknowledge it, most of us still believe in their existence as more than psychological phantoms and narcissistic emotional crutches. But, tell me, was the terrible destruction of life at the Somme, or at Vimy Ridge, or Passchendale, or Ypres, any less evil or senseless because these battles were fought in the name of obscure alliances instead of religious fervor? Were they somehow endowed with more morality? Or is it only that these deaths excite in us less anger, because we cannot easily find in them a side to take: the oppressed against the oppressor, the righteous against the infidel?It is to easy to condemn. It is to easy to subscribe to out own prejudices and live sheltered by ignorance. It is easy to hate. The solution to useless violence will not be found in changing one religion or the other. And it cannot be found in changing human nature, because that cannot be done. People like Gandhi and Mother Teresa saw beauty, truth, and kinship in others regardless of creed or class. And the beginnings of a solution to our problems can only be found in each of us, individually, striving to do the same.

  • Jeremy

    It appears to be the habit of those who do not like what is being said about Islam to try to shut down the debate, as the above poster Antoine so clearly has shown. Pointing out the atrocities commited in the name of Islam is not spreading hate and bigotry. It is spreading truth.

  • Give Me A Break

    Dear Mr. Faumy: If you had said these things to me three years ago before I met my Syrian born muslim husband, I would have wanted to give you the benefit of the doubt. But Here’s what I know now. My husband believes as most muslim men, that women are interchangeable. If you don’t like one wife, you drop her for another. Hence, the marriage of multiple wives. Except here in the West, you need a divorce. Since he couldn’t just say “I divorce you” three times, he just left me and our children. I was pregnant when he left, and this man said some horrible, horrible, things to me — he urged me to have an abortion. Said that he couldn’t have anymore children with me, because his children had to be muslims. Told me that women like me make a business out of having men’s babies. Said that I should just get rid of it, etc.He lies to me without blinking. Of course, Islam permits lying — especially to the unbelievers. My husband lies constantly, yet talks constantly about his “honor and integrity.” Wow!! It blows me away.How can a religion that permits lying and killing be peaceful? Where is the justice in the treatment of women? A woman’s testimony is worth half of a man’s. A woman get’s 1/4 of the inheritance that her brother gets…or is it 1/8. If she is married, the majority of the inheritance from her husband goes to his family and their children. And I won’t even go into the fact that the quran orders death to christian and jewish converts. This is not just a dated scripture (like the bibles “eye for an eye.”) This practice is carried out throughout Africa and the Middle East. I don’t see Islam as a religion, I see it as a cult, and a very combative, conflict oriented one at best. I only hope that other unsuspecting Western Christian women will use their head first instead of their heart. My life has been devastated by this muslim man who is so full of “honor and integrity.”

  • islam

    it looks that the writer is waisting his time writing this article ,people are asking why god said that after mohammed peace be upon him no religion will be accepted…well that s what god said and muslims believe in god and the prophete mohammed peace be upom him and other prophets moses jesus…instead of fighting muslims go and fight god he is the creator and nobody impose a religion upon you you believe what you believe muslims will not deny the quran and the sunna for the will of christians and jews that will never happen we can guarantee you that!what s funny is some try to annalyse a religion that s rich and simple and try to be the boss!thatg s very funny nobody in the world will makes us understand our religion

  • Doug Franklin

    Reason is almost always answered with a bullet; this is the fight that must be fought, not the one of one religion against another.As long as people will divide themselves, war will be fought.Love will not separate us… religion does… faith does.Reason does not enter into the Xian/Muslin/Islam sphere; only faith, the majestic unreason.If I could pray, it would be to the universe: let them know reason… humility will result… and they can then work together as equals.

  • Mark L

    To say that Islam is a religion of peace and that there are only a few radical Muslims committing violence in the name of Islam, is so utterly at odds with the empirical evidence all around us that it makes me truly wonder if there is even a basis for rational dialog. Either the purveyor such a statement is not in touch with reality or he is using words as a weapon with little thought to any factual basis for the words. Neither possibility is conducive to a meaningful dialog.And yet hope springs eternal. So here I go. I propose the following theses, and challenge any to debate them on their merits, using rational argumentation, not ad hominam attacks or unsupported claims that some other group is just as bad as Muslims.1. Radical Islam has the world at bay. The greatest military powers on the planet are, at best, fighting to a draw, and one can readiy argue that the radical Islamists are actually gaining ground. This is happening despite the fact that the Muslim countries, especially those most associated with the radical Islamist agenda, are economically and militarily week. To argue in the face of this that it is only a few who actively support this agenda is nonsensical at best, an execrable lie on less charitable principles.2. Islam does not mean “peace”, at least not directly. Arab-speaking Muslims have often translated it as “submission.” Submission is a form of peace, but the distinction between the words is not a minor one. It is intellectually dishonest to overlook the fact that Islam seeks peace in terms of submission. This argument does not rest on the etymology, which is offered for illustrative purposes. The necessity of submission to live at peace with Islam is greatly supported by historical fact.3. Political power is inseparable from spiritual principle in Islam. It is not a religion of inner transformation but of outward conformance. Obedience to the code is the whole point, not a thankful response to salvation by grace or evidence of a divinely-imbued life principle, as in Christianity for example. Jesus said “My Kingdom is not of this world,” and shame on every Christian who has failed to heed that. Such a pronouncement would have no place in Islam, where the whole point is to bring every nation into outward conformance with the pronouncements of Islam’s prophet. [Observation: Christians may rightly be accused of telling unbelievers in so many words that they’re going to Hell; but the radical Islamists not only say so, but help the “infidels” on their way. Ask yourself honestly if you’d rather be trapped in a dark alley with a radical Christian or a radical Islamist.]4. It is illegal and/or deadly to convert from Islam to any other persuasion in most if not all Muslim countries. Not only does this support the interpretation of Islam as “submission” in a very negative sense; it also argues for a lack of confidence in the historical, intellectual, and humanistic basis for asserting the teachings of Islam as binding. This is asserted not for the purpose of attacking the beliefs of Islam. Rather is people are dying all over the world for not submitting, it is extremely germane to ask how confident we can be that what they’re dying for not supporting is in fact the truth.5. Islamic radicals and their passive and active supporters have deliberately and masterfully pursued a policy of blurring the lines between combatants and non-combatants. Forces fighting in areas where Islamic radicals are the hostiles are made to be constantly and keenly aware that at any time they take an ambulance for an ambulance, a peaceable cabbie for a peaceable cabbie, a truck loaded with flour for a truck loaded with flour, it could be the occasion for their death. There’s no denying the effectiveness of this approach, which perhaps can argue in the Islamist’s favor (on a charitable premise) that he is not simply bloodthirsty, but backed into a corner. But it certainly gives the lie to the oft-stated argument that Muslims are just defending themselves, because the wicked Westerners are so unprincipled that in their thirst for oil they go around attacking ambulances, killing peaceable cabbies, and blowing up flour trucks.6. Islam defines its enemies and oppressors as any who do not accept its tenets. To say this is not conducive to peace is an understatement of monumental proportions. It is a recipe for world-wide conflagration, which we have today at low intensity, but with an alarming breadth, and with the ever-increasing risk of an unthinkable catastrophe when the radicals come up with a single play that finally approaches the scope of their insatiable vision.

  • DB

    Folks who justify violence based on some often misinformed perception of some events which took place almost 900 years ago need to have a serious head realignment and need to get with the collective program. That includes Moslems who point to the Crusades (ignoring the destruction of the Church of the Holy Seplechure and enslavement of pilgrims – which even the Moslems tried to make amends and head off the impending holocaust – but too late) or the Christian Serbs who justified killing their Moslem neighbors by pointing to some battle in 1368 or whatever no one gives a collective hoot about. They need to confront the present and real and hold killers responsible for their own actions and stop making excuses for them or themselves. Grow up. Be big folks. Get along with your neighbors. Play nice. No killing. No killing. There, isn’t that simple? Something even kindergartners could understand.Get the point?

  • islam

    Another thing that i don t understand is everybody expect a muslim to be perfect a muslim is a human being he can makes mistakes why we don t expect the same thing from christians or jews?like this one talking about her syrian husband!he can be a muslim or from another religion but to be a devouted muslim you should nt lie,.steel,insult,intimidate,talk about people on a bad terms…there is a lot of principles that you should fallow and you keep trying to be a good person islam is a way of life also,motivation work help the poors love your parents your family your neighbours..its a bout science (the closest people to god are scientists) the prophet mohammed peace be upon him said seek science even in china!

  • Concerned The Christian Now Liberated

    Jesus, Mohammed, Isaiah and Joe Smith would be considered fortune tellers if they lived today so get your minds out of the Dark ages and into modern reality.And proof that Islam is a violent religion? If I called Mohammed a fortune teller in any Islamic country or a country with a large Muslim population, I would be jailed, stoned and/or assassinated. The same does not hold true if I labeled Jesus, Isaiah, or Joe Smith a fortune teller in any country of the world.

  • Amjad Wyne

    To all those Muslims who want to engage Washington Post readers in a meaningful discussion…please stop. Look at the hostility and you will understand why it does not make any sense to engage these people. Speak to those that have open minds or write for publications that cater to better readers…Let them think that they have won…it is good for their egos…

  • shadeofchinar

    Frank collins is a muslim hater.”did you mention about the recent burnings,rape and slaughter of muslims by hindu rightwing RSS in gujrat,India”get a life Frank aka hindu dude

  • Mark L.

    Doug Franklin said “Reason does not enter into the Xian/Muslin/Islam sphere; only faith, the majestic unreason.”I can only speak with experience to the place of reason in Christianity. Your statement is a good summary of Televangelist Christianity, and not much more. The ideas taught by Jesus, Paul, and the other disciples know nothing of the distinction you’ve drawn.The Christian concept of faith is utterly incoherent without reason. It is faith IN something that is enjoined, something held to the mind as a rational, explorable, defensible assertion. Christian faith is not the opposite of reason, but reason brought to its greatest fruition; applied to the heart, leveraged to excite the affections of the soul, the spring of all action.If faith is just hanging in thin air (Christian theologians call this fideism), then faith IN JESUS is not even a coherent assertion. Without rational argumentation, Jesus cannot even be distinguished from Mohammed or Buddha or Oprah Winfrey. If you don’t place your faith in Jesus, that’s your right in this country. But your argument amounts to an assertion that Christians are not placing their faith IN JESUS either, and that is simply not true.If you’re willing to step outside your postmodern plausibility structures for a moment, consider how the pillars of your modern world were not simply tolerated by Christians, but given to you by a rational, world-embracing Christianity. Universities, the concept of the nation-state, the freedom of the individual, the dependability and predictability of natural causes (the very genesis of modern science), all these came directly from Christianity. I’m not asking you to say thank you, just to consider the irrationality of claiming that all this came from mere faith as you conceive it, devoid of and antithetical to reason.And lest you also conclude that faith itself is a dirty word, ask any honest scientist and he or she will tell you that they require faith to operate their science, just as the Christian requires faith to maintain his world view. The assertion of actual causality ( as opposed to mere correlation), the existence of the external world, the continuity of self-identity through time, the veracity of memory, the reality of matter as an actual substrate rather than an abstract mapping of properties or qualities, all these are unprovable and taken by good scientists on faith. Kant and Hume knew these as “basic beliefs”, things you have to assume to live coherently. Any intermediate-level philosophy student should be able to tell you this is so.The world is not so simple as we often make it. Televangelist Christianity can be quite comforting, for the person who wants to write Christianity off as so much unsupported nonsense. Calvin argued against those Christians who would discount any truth in the mind of unbelievers by observing the great accomplishments and insights of many non-Christians, and asking “Were they all madmen?” You would do well to ask the same question with regard to the great minds that have embraced Christianity; sustaining and strengthening, not supplanting, their commitment to the idea that rational thought is the sine qua non of authentic human existence.

  • NS

    Frank,I am from India and i am surprised to see your knowledge of the violence of islamic invasion of India. The only Muslim King who was humane was Akbar – even he wanted to create a new faith Din – e – illahi which combined the best of many religious faiths.I have’nt seen one convincing post that debated the basic points that you are trying to make even though there are a lot of personal insults.You are doing something right, then!!

  • Jason

    Everyone keeps rehashing the Crusades, Hitler, the Armenian genocide, and even Hiroshima. My question is whether the people advocating peaceful Islam believe that in 50 years from now a Christian can openly worship in Iran? How about in 100 years? Or will a muslim be able to convert to Christianity in Afghanistan? I don’t buy that Islam as a religion is any more fundamentally violent than others despite the protests, but I do question whether it is fundamentally more intolerant. That to me makes Islam’s peaceful future path less clear.

  • Viejita del oeste

    NS

  • Viejita del oeste

    George, you’re probably long gone at this hour, but I meant my comparison of cab drivers and pharmacists seriously. The school boards and pharmacists I mentioned have the aegis of the state law in their defense. In contrast, it seems that the situation with cabbies points out an economic opportunity for someone to open a secularist car service. So maybe it is you who are being disengeneous…

  • Mohamed

    I’m not going to defend Islam and its messenger because it is not needed. But If you think Islam is an evil religion and the Koran promotes hate and murder, then why don’t you test it by listening to it and then be your own judge. Kelly is a white catholic woman who tried to kill herself two years ago. She stayed in the mental hospital for two months. When she got out of the hospital, she had to see a psychologist twice a week for sessions and psychiatrist once a month for anti-depressant drug. Her psychologist evaluated her and planned to keep her for two years. She used to take a heavy sleeping pills before going to sleep and she would wake up in the middle of the night around 3:30 am. She was going through hell.You can not take the verses out of the context and try to make false arguments. Scientists have been using logic, assumptions, and trials to draw conclusions. But no scientist has ever defined the concept of FREE WILL, the power to make decisions without being controlled by God, because their scientific approaches did not work. Kelly told me there were people in the mental hospital chained for years and doctors gave them all type of drugs but nothing worked for them. Therefore, You can not make an argument to prove Islam is an evil religion and the Koran promotes hate and murder.Whoever is interested in testing the Koran, I would send them the CD’s. The chapters on CD’s are as follows:To listen to the Koran:set the cd player mode to “all repeat” so you can listen the Koran all night while you’re sleeping. email-address: mohamed.hopeful@gmail.com

  • barbara

    Nabil Fahmy wrote: The crimes of crusaders should not be attributed to the core philosophy of Christianity . . . The Crusades–which lasted for only about 250 years–were a REACTION to the preceding 400 years of violent, Muslim conquest. North Africa and most of the current Middle East as well as large parts of Asia were originally part of our Greco-Roman-Judeo-Christian tradition. That was before the extremely violent Muslim conquests during which, those “infidels” who were not slaughtered, were given the “choice” of forced conversion, death, or 2nd class citizenship under Muslim rule. This Muslim Jihad was definitely part of the “core philosophy” of Islam in which Jihad is considered a central duty of all Muslims, whether they engage themselves or support those who do. The founder, Mohammed, himself was the first Jihadi and called for violent Jihad. No established, sizable Muslim groups (that I am aware of) have repudiated the doctrine of armed, violent Jihad. After the violent (Jihad again) conquest and occupation of Spain by Muslims, it took the Christians 800 years to reconquer the countries (Spain, Portugal) and drive the Muslims out. Islamic Spain or Andalusia was far from the peaceful, tolerant society that Muslim apologists like to portray. For example, there were periodic massacres of Jews and Cristians–in 1066 more than 5,000 Jews were murdered. At one time, there was an inquisition in Andalusia which crucified and burned apostates 400 years before the beginning of the Spanish Inquisition (which might very well have been an imitation of Muslim practice). Islamic law still calls for the death of apostates which means death for anyone who has the courage to leave Islam. So much for history. Mr. Fahmy thinks that we are all stupid and ignorant. After all, we are not superior like Muslims. Islam is Sumpremicist, Imperialistic, Aggressive, and Violent. We see the results of this all over the world, wherever large numbers of Muslims come into contact with others. Mr. Fahmy, get over the Crusades! Muslims have done and are still doing far, far worse.

  • TOM2

    Islam is a hateful religion. The claim that is the religion of peace only applies to fellow muslims. If you are not a muslim you are marked for death or servitude. Have you noticed how many muslims lie? Osama bin Laden said publicly “we have nothing to do with this” when commenting on the 9/11 horror. It was a lie. It was a BIG lie. If you’re not a muslim you can be lied to, cheated, abused, even killed by muslims. You don’t count.Muslims tacitly approve of all the horrors that their brothers perpetrate across the globe.The world would be mostly peaceful if it weren’t for muslims. The Philippines, Afghanistan, Southern Russia, Indonesia…the list goes on. Most of the death and destruction is perpetrated by muslims intent on pleasing their god (and getting laid…in heaven).Mohammed (suffering and agony upon him) was only a man, not a prophet. The small minded, weak spirited individuals that follow islam are fools.Their is no god as man understands him. There never was. If there is a force or power that propels the universe it is beyond your understanding (and mine). No man will ever tell me what to believe. If god has not presented himself to me and everyone else, then he does not exist in the way you say.You are fools if you believe in Islam. It is the religion of death, and when it is finally defeated in 100 years by IDEAS it will be to the everlasting shame of all muslims everywhere that they believed the lies, acted on them, or sat by tacitly approving all that has happened. I hate organized religion, and especially Islam. It only causes suffering and pain. May all the hate you perpetrate or condone privately come back on you seven-fold (not that it will happen, of course; I don’t believe in voodoo.)

  • Paul

    There has been NO killing on behalf of Christianity in modern times. Killing “by Christian nations” (i.e. World War I and World War II) has not been based on religious ideology. Yes, Hitler killed millions of Jews. But which nations stopped Hitler? Was it the Muslim nations that do not even want to admit that the Holocaust occurred? No, it was the U.S., Great Britain and other Christian nations. Muslims move to the West because it offers them freedom and opportunity and then try to destroy the West. The Kuran is the playbook for all things evil in the world. The same cannot be said for the Bible or other religious texts. Islam needs to stop comparing apples with oranges and start examining its own brutality and its failure to support basic human rights for all people.Unless and until the so-called moderate Muslims start supporting basic human rights for women and gays, and acknoweldge that government must be non-secular and provide fundamental freedoms to all people (regardless of religion) then I will see Islam the way most sane people see it today — as the theology of hate.

  • frank collins

    i have a question.

  • Amjad Wyne

    I love this…this level of hate against Muslims…we should actually post it on international websites so everyone knows the character of these people.

  • Danny B.

    Frank,”instead of saying poor me, im islamic and people dont like me so ignore them, try answering the numerous questions that have been posed. reject those portions of the koran that demand hate and forced membership in islam.”Your questions are mired down with hate that destroys all credibility in your allusion to “curiosity”.And on what authority do you speak when you demand that the Islamic scripture be changed? Really, who do you think you are. You claim no credentials to support your nasty diatribes, no attained scholarship that gives you such insight into the faith that you can competently make such demands.You sound like a raving lunatic, and have pretty much made this thread unreadable. If I felt so strongly against Islam, I wouldn’t waste my time weighing down a message board on the web…I might start MY OWN blog.You’re not just an idiot, you’re an “armchair idiot”, which is really much more sad.

  • Eric

    Dear Mr. Fahmy,Your claims about Islam may be true, although I have my doubts. What isn’t true, however, is the idea that one can have a “sober, scientific” conversation about ANY religious faith. My problem isn’t with Islam particularly, so much as with religion generally – all religious people have, to varying extents, suspended their ability to reason. Seeing as even peaceful expression of religion strikes me as dangerous, imagine how threatening violence in the name of religion seems to me: People are dying over differing interpretations of fiction.

  • First time viewer

    To all who think Islam is evil,to answer some questions asked.

  • Andrew

    Most people are sheep. They are depressed, miserable, hungry for something to believe, and can be easily turned with promise of absolution for their devotion to a particular cause or creed. This is true of Christians, Muslims, Hindus, Shintoists, Jews, Zoroastrianists, Rastafarians, Confuscianists, Taoists, Quakers, Amish, and every other religion conceived, and it is also true of atheists, agnostics, and apostates.A religion becomes dangerous when one or both of two things happens: the promise offered by its doctrine becomes too great to resist, or the means to that promise is a grave threat to the lives and freedom of those not yet converted.On these grounds, Islam stands as the most dangerous religion in existence today, because its core constituency (its high clerics or imams and other faith leaders) fail the basic test of humane behavior on both accounts. (Some of the other very dangerous ones are right here in the U.S., including Scientology and the Latter-Day Saints). Let’s look at the two pillars for some of these religions in modern context (I am aware of the past transgressions of many of them, but the past is the past and cannot change.):ChristianityJudaismMormonism (Latter-Day Saints)Scientology:Islam:The importance here, however, is not in the messenger, it’s in the interpretation of the message in the modern day. The key HUMAN in the Bible set an example of tolerance, pacifism, and peaceful preaching and conversion. The key HUMAN in the Qu-ran set an example of murder, forced conversion, subordination of women, and hatred for unbelievers. It is certainly possible to interpret the Bible as a call to holy war, and a few Christians do, but the hugely vast majority do not, and more importantly, NEITHER DO THEIR MODERN-DAY PRIESTS. Islam is currently headed, in the Middle East, by a fractious contingent of war admirals who have the ear of their respective governments to a degree unheard-of (and unhoped-for) in the West.Whoever it was who said Islam needs a Caliph to set an example of peace was correct, but how will one arise? How would he gain the ears that are at the moment turned so sharply to warmongering imams in the Arab world? And how would he deal with the core text of his faith, which says in clear print that nonbelievers can do nothing to make themselves worthy in the eyes of Muslims short of conversion? These questions must be answered.In closing (and thanks if you read this far), I must note that I am a Zen Buddhist, and like all Zen practicioners I am saddened by the misunderstanding that leads to so much violence and death over so many millennia. John Lennon is probably right – in utopia, there is no religion. Only faith.

  • RS

    Zain: 1. Palestinians’ conditions have become worse under Hamas – yes, that is the result of Israel’s and the West’s response, but this response was completely predictable. Palestinians voted for Hamas even though it was clear it would worsen living conditions. Hezbollah and the Muslim Brotherhood have also done well in elections. To all those discussing the Quran:

  • Socom

    People fighting over religion is like two kids in the school yard fighting over who has the best imaginary friend. Not a single one of you has any proof of your “prophets”. I can sit outside and denounce any and all gods all day. Who wants to take bets I will be here next week and the week after and so on. Educated people shouldnt fight over mythical figures. Warped people claim to be a prophet to control the minds and actions of the poorly educated, financially insecure, and the morally depressed. I’ve been reading this since yesterday, and I cant believe the crap that is being spewed on these pages. I have friends of all religions. The worst I have come across are Seventh day adventists. They are cultish, the muslim friends I have, mind their own religion and do not push their values on me and I dont push mine on them. Learn to respect people for people. If someone is good or bad, it is within them, they can blame it on their beliefs, but that is a scape goat. It is the individual.

  • victoria

    mohamed thks for sharing with us and your geneorous offer to ship the quran cds to any who are interested- i have seen the healing power of qur’an myself amd its lasting effectspeace and asalaamu alaikum

  • CMB

    Andrew: Thanks for your reasoned posting. While I have no faith myself in any after life scenerio, I have always respected the good works done by ANY person of faith in the name of that faith. The idea that a religion in today’s world (Islam) actually REQUIRES violence against others as a tenent of their faith would seem to be the one defining point seperating Islam from other world religions. I love my Muslim brothers for their good works and generous hearts towards others, but I am afraid of them nonetheless for their calm declarations that I deserve death as a nonbeliever. While my Christian friends say that I will burn in Hell for being a nonbeliever, at least their version of the white bearded old man in the sky doesn’t demand they hasten the day of my demise (except for a very small and often vocal Looney Toons minority). As long as Islamic scholars, leaders and followers don’t fully repudiate the violence being caused in TODAY’S WORLD, then I won’t trust their declarations of peace. It has been said here and from the Muslim leader’s own mouths, anything may be said and done to deceive the unbeliever in order to ensure their destruction in the name of Allah. BE NICE TO EACH OTHER! If there is a daddy in the clouds, he’s got a long belt to spank all of you with in the end 🙂

  • CMB

    Also, check out any modern writings by Muslim dissenters, refuting the idea that the wah’habi-style practices of so many modern Muslims and the governments they influence. See the writings of Ayann Hirsi Ali or Irshad Manji for a woman’s point of view. As the recent conference in St. Petersburg, Florida, has shown, there is a small but vocal group of Muslims who don’t agree with the violent nature of modern Islam and are working on reforming it to a TRUE religion of peace. I’m waiting for the Islamic apologists to start slamming the idea that any of these people are TRUE Muslims. Go ahead…you know you want to.

  • Peter

    Organized religion takes great pride in instructing its adherents in the ways of the faith and to make their actions flow accordingly in accordance with their beliefs. As Paul posted above “Muslims move to the West because it offers them freedom and opportunity and then try to destroy the West”. The insulting and downright hypocritical nature of Muslim’s actions, by being silent in the face of an attempt by their violent radical brothers and sisters in faith to kill all of us in the West. If Muslims who live in the West truly like it and would seek its survival, where are their voices. And someone tell me WHY all these Muslims who come to Western nations (especially London, where I originate), are given haven, legal protection, freedoms, and resources, turn around and demand the west be bombed to the ground. Tell me WHY these people shouldnt be put on the next plane back to whatever godforesaken country they came from. Instead they plead oppression from the colonial West, and use refugee visas to cling onto a country they despise but who’s benefits they enjoy.

  • victoria

    its not necessary to go to extremists like ms hirsi(who self- admittedly hates islam with her whole being, and is an atheist) hardly a credible source for balanced information- to find denunciation of wahabi style fundamentalism- i was born in wisonsin and lived in america all my life, and i am a muslim woman of eurocentric ethnicity. sadly, it has worked quite well- all i can say is that the qur’an overwhelmingly and consistently exhorts peace- islam, the word itself, unlike other religions is not named after a prophet or saint, but means, literally, peace. since people are not inclined to long reads-heres a video link so, if you want to ask a muslim woman- i am one- for the record- i actively and vociferously denounce violence, terrorism, literalist and fundamentalist interpretation of (any) scripture- peace all

  • mike

    guys, all religions have good points to them and all have bad points. no religion has it completely right but how can anyone judge eachothers religion and because no one can truly live two lives. Violence in religion pretty much proves no religion has it right. But why does that mean we cant be good ppl?

  • Abraham O’Rama

    LA

  • TOM2

    For those who do not know what the words above mean, I believe they are roughly translated as “There is no god but Allah and Mohammed is Allah’s apostle/prophet”.I believe it’s used dogmatically by devotees of Islam to express their strong belief in their god and the teachings of Mohammed, and as an initiation into Islam.More germane to this discussion, if you speak the first three lines out loud you might recognize the words from somewhere. “Where did I hear that? Where did I see that?” you may be asking yourself.These were the words printed on the banner behind a kneeling Nick Berg as the brave hooded Islamists cut off his head with a long knife as he screamed in terror.

  • Prince Caspian

    “LASaying it doesn’t make it so. Ask yourself how you REALLY know this. Is the Qur’an your authority? How is it authenticated? Why is faith in the words of this book enforced under penalty of death? Could it not stand on its own merits?Either God spoke to Mohammed or he didn’t. One day we will all know the same answer. Take care that you have really chosen the side of truth.

  • TOM2

    Ambassador Fahmy,With respect, your job is political, not religious. Your attempt to gloss over the evils of your religion, Islam, has failed. The attempts of small-minded Islamists fail every day. Your great-greatgrandchildren will ask their peers “why did my forefathers hate and kill everyone? Were they animals?”Just as muslims tacitly approve of all the death and destruction that Islam has perpetrated on the world, the rest of the world tacitly approves of the ideological [not physical] destruction of Islam. You didn’t count on the internet and the rapid exchange of ideas. Your strategic error. Too bad. Too late to correct.Egypt is the home of the Muslim Brotherhood, an Islamist group that preaches hate and destruction and has spread it far and wide, and especially thru Al Qaeda. At least the west and other religions know how to clean house and take out the trash, unlike your country and your religion.I suppose you gambled, with your transparent political post, on a weak response from a politically correct Washington Post audience to advance your hidden agenda: Advance Islam in opposition to a weak and “godless” west.It has failed. Better luck next time.

  • TOM2

    Let’s examine the premise of the initial post. Maybe it can be summed up as ‘Islam is good with a few bad actors’. Really?Islam has managed to piss-off most of the people in the world.• Jews: Muslims hate jews and kill them left and right. Old news.So, okay, why should the world respect Islam? I’m confused. What is it about the Religion of Peace® that is good and holy?I don’t get it. Maybe one of you enlightened Islamists can fill me in.

  • Prince Caspian

    TOM2, I’d like to know: Are you posting because you hate Muslims or because you love the truth?If it’s the former, you’re actually advancing the cause of those whose ends you despise, since with your sarcasm you deflect attention from the genuine merits of the argument against them. If it’s the latter, then you do injury to the truth you love on the same principle. Either way, it seems to me that your tone is counter-productive to the end you seek.For better or worse, Muslims make much of the opposition they encounter, and many of them wear it as a badge. That’s their prerogative; but for my part, I will strive to give them nothing to use in that manner but rational arguments spoken sincerely in the interest of exposing the truth.

  • TOM2

    Prince Caspian,I post to expose the truth as I see it.I use the tone that I do in an attempt to shake the politically correct scales from the eyes of the victims, and with scant hope; the violence-prone scales from the eyes of the perpetrators.My view is that the arguments against the evil are well know but not spoken, and not well articulated. To me, these ARE the genuine arguments against the evil. I speak forcefully to reinforce the view. I don’t apologize for my tone. I don’t believe that taking a civil tone that aims to placate the evil has worked. It didn’t work prior to 9/11. We turned out heads after several attacks on peace loving people and the evil saw the effects it craved.I don’t hate muslims, per se. I do hate islam and muslims who perpetrate violence or tacitly condone it in the hope that thru passive non-involvement they will reap the benefits of both modern civilized society and, maybe, if they’re lucky, a return of the caliphate.I don’t apologize for hate. It is an emotion, not an aberration. I control its physical manifestation, but examine and channel the intellectual reaction to its cause. To deny that hate exists is to also deny love, fear, hope, and all the other biological defenses we were created with.We won’t win over the evil with kind words. Reasoned arguments bounce off their armor of dogma. I speak what I see as the truth and hold it up to the light. Let them look at it as we see it. Let them feel the animosity, and yes, the hate. They created it.With respect,Tom2

  • victoria

    so by your reasoning tom, since muslims bear the onus for hatred, having created it- do they also bear the responsibility (and credit) for having created the love, the fear the hope? your words will resonate with those that have the hatred in their hearts- i have a feeling that before 911, when people had no idea what islam was- you had another nemesis to hate or fearmonger-

  • TOM2

    Victoria,The radical muslims have created the hate that is reflected on them. They have no role in creating hate itself. If they were to show love and compassion, they would be responsible for the feelings returned to them as well. I’m not talking about some metaphysical creation of emotion. I’m talking about the real world. They hate me…I hate them back. Simple. Direct. Human. When they stop, I will. They created the hate; I didn’t. I have never killed someone for god, and have never condoned the killing of someone for god, unlike islam.Your feelings about me are wrong. Before 9/11 I new what islam was. It has been hateful for all of my life. I’m old enough to remember all the attacks. 9/11 was just over the top. The initial premise of this thread was that the hate and violence were some kind of aberration. They’re not. They have been going on for a long time.Your unsophisticated attempt to portray me as a hate-, fear-monger are wrong. You don’t know me. I hate the evil that is destroying the world. I must be a bad man by your reasoning.Also by your reasoning (you being a muslim) *I feel* that you hate me for what I’ve written. Where is the love you proclaim? I certainly haven’t felt it here from you. Have you fought the evil, or have you tried to hide it, rename it, excuse it. Just blogging about it doesn’t count.

  • Alwx

    Mr Ambassador,

  • victoria

    dont be ridiculous tom2, i dont know you- i dont like or dislike you- and i certainly am not expending the energy to hate a name posted on a blog- so theres no point to arguing- islam is a religion that proposes peace, and ways to live peacefully- there is no extremism allowed in islam- balance and moderation even in worship reason is supposed to prevail- one is not exhorted to blindly follow ones angers or passions at all- THESE ARE THE PRECEPTS OF ISLAM- IF ONE TRANSCENDS THEM- HE OR SHE IS NOT ACTING ISLAMICALLY- i must instead bear with patience any misinformation or slander and counter it with information and gentleness i am really really not of the same philosophy that evil cannot be recounted with kindness- suicide is completely and unequivocally against the precepts of islam- so, as a muslim, i have to denounce both the abuse of islam by the proponents of violence-

  • Karl

    I have read all of the prior posts with great interest . . . thanks for the variety of thought! In many ways I share Tom’s views and Frank’s quest for greater enlightenment of why radical/extemist behavior is tolerated to such great extent by a religion that professes to stress “Peace.”I recently read a book by The Enemy at Home by Dinesh D’Souza who, in my opinion, provides sound (read factual) reasoning that addresses the fundamental questions posed by Tom and Frank . . . a point of view that will amaze you because it provides answers to all of the paradoxical issues offered on this topic. I encourage you to check this book out of your local library and give it a read . . . no matter what side of the issue you’ve taken so far, I’m certain you’ll be surprised by the insights you’ll gain. I promise you, when it comes to Islam and Western thought, you’ll come to see what the present struggle is really all about and, more importantly, how we can work together to make this a more peaceful world. Again, thanks for sharing your thoughts!!!!

  • victoria

    JS- are you seriously proposing that you cannot distinguish between political statements and a religious philosophy? as a peaceful muslim, ill define myself and conduct my energies as i see fit. if you cant find evidence of muslims speaking out for reason and peace- that is your lack of intitiative, and no reflection on muslims.

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