Kashmir is not Hindu vs. Muslim

Today’s guest blogger is Hafsa Kanjwal, a recent graduate of Georgetown University and a Director of KashmirCorps. Hafsa is a … Continued

Today’s guest blogger is Hafsa Kanjwal, a recent graduate of Georgetown University and a Director of KashmirCorps. Hafsa is a former Interfaith Youth Core Fellow and recently joined IFYC as a staff member.

Much to the dismay of the Indian government, the issue of Kashmir has once again garnered international media attention. For the past two months, the region has been witness to violent protests and clashes with Indian army officials. As always, the situation is portrayed as a communal one, pitting Hindus and Muslims against each other. It is unfortunate that the unresolved territorial status of Jammu and Kashmir has taken religious overtones, serving only to stifle the road to self-determination for the Kashmiri people, who suffer Indian rule since 1947.

The most recent set of events were spurred by the state government’s decision to grant nearly 100 acres of forest land to the Amarnath Shrine Board, which oversees the annual Hindu pilgrimage to a cave shrine of Lord Shiva in the mountains of the Kashmir Valley. In an election year, it is rumored that the current state government made this decision to secure support in the Hindu-majority Jammu region. The land was to be used to set up shelters and facilities for the Hindu pilgrims.

Muslims in the Kashmir Valley protested this land transfer in late June, believing it was a ploy by the Indian government to change the demographics of the pre-dominantly Muslim Kashmir Valley and integrate it with the Indian union.

I was there during these protests, running a program of volunteers from the United States who worked with local civil society organizations. Schools and businesses were shut down as thousands took to the streets demanding a revocation of the land transfer and an end to the Indian occupation. Those who were shocked by the strength of the protests underestimated the Kashmiri desire for azaadi, or freedom. Separatist leaders capitalized on the popular sentiment and emphasized that the protests were not against the pilgrimage itself, but the illegal land transfer and continued Indian influence in Kashmir’s affairs.

The order was revoked on July 1st. By the time I left Kashmir in mid-July, it appeared that the situation had normalized and a greater crisis had been avoided.

The issue had managed to stay away from being deemed communal until the BJP and other Hindu nationalist parties in India (known collectively as the Sangh Parivar) used the Amarnath land transfer issue to gain political leverage, especially in Jammu. The BJP believes that India is a Hindu nation–an ideology completely at odds with the nation’s supposed secularism and contrary to India’s touting itself as home to the world’s largest Muslim minority. It draws its inspiration from the Hindutva, a concept coined before India’s independence that defines the identity of an “Indian” as one linked to being “Hindu.” The BJP has also been at the forefront of violence against India’s Muslim minority, especially in the state of Gujarat in 2002.

In Jammu and other parts of India, the BJP urged people to protest the revocation. Hindu protesters attacked and set fire to a number of Muslim homes, and a curfew was imposed in many districts. These protesters enforced an economic blockade of the Kashmiri Valley by stopping traffic on the national highway between Srinagar and Jammu. The blockade was the last straw for the Valley–fruit growers were unable to sell their produce outside of the state, and food and essential medical supplies became scarce.

Separatist leaders, who have more support than the puppet state and central government, called for a march to Muzaffarabad, in Pakistan-occupied Kashmir, to breach the border that splits the region between the two Kashmir’s. As during the height of the insurgency against Indian rule in the early 90’s, the Indian army responded to these peaceful protests with brute force, killing over 20 Kashmiri civilians over the next few days, including a prominent separatist leader.

News reports from all over the world remind me of my childhood–once again, the blood, despair, and frustration had returned to the streets of a land once known as “Paradise on Earth.”

The stage was set for another week of more large-scale protests by Kashmiri Muslims and demands for independence, including a gathering a few days ago of nearly one million Kashmiris marching towards the UN headquarters, demanding the right of self-determination.

In recent years, pundits and leaders in New Delhi, Washington, and even Islamabad began to believe a state of normalcy had returned to the Valley, that pro-independence sentiments had all but disappeared, and that the Kashmiri people were beginning to accept Indian rule. By communalizing the land transfer, the BJP had, ironically, managed to turn a debate over the allotment of land into a renewal for the struggle for independence. In response, the Muslim separatist leaders were then able to mobilize Muslim nationalism and grievances in the Valley, thus continuing to frame the situation in communal terms.

The issue is not one of Hindu versus Muslim, and if it is continued to be irresponsibly framed by political leaders in this manner, the consequences will be devastating. One only has to go back a few years and recall the massacres in Gujarat. The issue here is the continued manipulation by both India and Pakistan, as they compete to comfort their own egos at the expense of not only the Kashmiri people, but also their own citizens. It is the occupation and oppression of the Kashmiri people by the Indian government. It is the alienation of the Kashmiri people through draconian Indian policies and continued human rights violations–including indiscriminate killing, forced disappearances, and torture. It is the Indian government’s denial of “the problem of Kashmir” and their insistence that “Kashmir is an integral part of India,” an insistence that is disingenuous at best, given Indian actions. It is the failure of the peace process between India and Pakistan to legitimately address the wishes of the Kashmiri people.

It saddens me to read about the current events in Kashmir, and I worry for the safety of my friends and family whose lives are always at the mercy of the instability there. I hope that the rest of the world wakes up to the situation in Kashmir, and that the people there are given the right, laid out by numerous UN resolutions, to determine their own future.

The content of this blog reflects the views of its author and does not necessarily reflect the views of either Eboo Patel, the Interfaith Youth Core, or Kashmircorps.

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  • ANONYMOUS

    Only an idiot or an extremely shallow person does not get the point that it is colonialism and stealing other peoples’s money, resources, and heritage that is being pointed out to those who claim moral superiority.The British took the cotton from India and brought back the cloth to sell to the Indians during the colonial times. This is only just one example.Stealing is taking somebody else’s material possessions or ideas that does not belong to the thief.With the wealth looted from colonized people they developed their factories, universities and everything else.India had thousands of years old Nalanda university, Egypt had one thousand year old Al Azhar university. How many universities that old were in England, France or any other European country?

  • Arif

    “… Only an idiot or an extremely shallow …India had thousands of years old Nalanda university, Egypt had one thousand year old Al Azhar university. How many universities that old were in England, France or any other European country?”Deep boy; You are a funny man indeed. You need to work at least one brain cell perhaps then you will realize that Al Azhar university today churns out high class taliban graduates. The koran scholars, those who seek science in the koran. Pick a discovery then find it in an absurd verse then claim that the illiterate camel herder came up with it first. Do you know what the Sultans and Muslim kings were doing before the British came? They kept all the money for themselves, did not allow education. They extorted money from their subjects; they were worthless drunks and spent their time in poetry with dancers and drinking. It was easy for the British to slap them stupid and take India away from their control. The weak will always loose. The British at least did much more than the Mughals ever did. They built roads, schools, and established a law and political system that still works today. They built much needed hospitals; sure they took what they wanted, occupiers do that you know, but they also gave back, something the Mughals can never claim to have done. What did the Mughals give back? Taj Mahal? Can the billion Indians eat that?Come out of that window-less basement of yours and smell the roses, go get a hillal Gyro and choke on it.

  • GeorgiaSon

    I presume, Hafsa Kanjwal, that you are glad to be able to post your views on the Internet via the forum of a major American newspaper/newsmagazine. Freedom of expression is a wonderful thing, isn’t it?Well, that freedom of expression is under attack, right here in America. I refer to Random House’s decision to abandon publication of Sherry Jones’ book, “The Jewel of Medina,” in the face of threats from Muslims to retaliate if the book were published. Surely there is no debate about this decision. It is wrong, period. Random House has just driven a stake into the heart of what America is all about. Self-censorship in the face of threats of retaliation if a book is published takes us back to the Dark Ages. Some of us have been warning for some time that the growing Muslim population in the U.S., whatever its size, would reach the tipping point at which it would begin to alter the character of American society and pose a threat to our basic values. With Random House’s decision, I rest my case. This incident poses a litmus test of whether Muslims in America really understand what this country is all about. So far, they are flunking.An immediate response is required. Please tell us, Hafsa Kanjwal, what you intend to do to oppose this outrageous assault on basic American values.Meanwhile, Eboo Patel and all other so-called moderate or progressive Muslim voices should be banned from the pages of On Faith until they take a strong and public stand against Random House’s decision. Patel, Pamela Taylor, and the rest must denounce the Muslims making those threats in unequivocal terms.

  • ANONYMOUS

    Georgiason: This “American Values” is confusing to everybody at best.Go to the banks of the river Thames in London and see for yourself the statutes standing there stolen from ancient Egypt.Go to the Queen of England and ask her how did she get the Kohi-noor, the largest diamond of the world which was found in India and was in the possession of the Mughal dynasty.Go visit the Philadelphia Museum of Art and go to the section in Asia. You will find a Hindu temple from S.India brought from India stone by stone and reassembled there. Doesn’t that temple belong to the people of India and is a cultural and religious heritage of the people of India?In the same museum go to the section of the authentic documents of the kings of India of the medieval times.Go to the section on Persia in the same museum and find the original documents on display there. How did they get there?Go to the museums of all over the Western world and you will find similar items stolen from Asian countries.Wait for a few years, and you will find pieces of Iraqi cultural heritage and Mesopotamian artifacts appear in the museums in the West.Travel by coach or train in the country side of England. What natural resources do they have? Nothing except coal. You will find numerous castles in the countryside. How did England get that rich?

  • Arif

    “Travel by coach or train in the country side of England. What natural resources do they have? Nothing except coal. You will find numerous castles in the countryside. How did England get that rich?”An idiot thou art; Lets think like a Muslim, lets think like a Muslim and put on our thinking caps/hats/hijabs/towels/burkas/turbans and see How did England get that rich? The Egyptian statues made them so rich and the Kohi-noor diamond and the little Hindu temple among other things. If this is how a nation gets rich then let us abandon all the universities and investments we make in our citizens and start building museums with asian/african/muslim/hindu artifacts and get rich fast!!! What the sand religion does to a perfectly good mind.Side note: Did anyone watch that muslima athlete from Bahrain compete in the Olympics 200 meters? She looked like someone from another planet. It’s good that Muslim women have begun to compete in the Olympics (one in a Billion!!!) but that outfit? Please Muslims, we non-Muslim men don’t get horny watching women compete in the Olympics; we don’t, seriously. Imagine what the swimming attire will be in the London Olympics? Or will we see beach volley-ball? Two burka women vs. the two skimpy clad opponents.Arif

  • Heemal

    I find the comments of these so called ‘moderate’ Muslims even more appalling than the hardcore Islamists. At least the hardcore Islamists are honest about their views and intentions while these so called moderates just stoke the fires!!! Ms Hafsa whatever, who on her blog says that she was born in ‘Indian occupied Kashmir’ , well I have to tell her that I was born on the same land and my ancestors are FROM there – I am a Kashmiri speaking person, and the only difference between her an me is religion. Yes – people of my community were driven out of Kashmir because we were Hindus! Now I would like Ms. Hafsa to look me in the eye and tell me that it is not about religion. The problem with Kashmiri Muslims is that they cannot live with people of any other faith. I am so tired of this crappy rhetoric talking about their broadmindedness, that I’d rather that they go and join a third rate country like Pakistan to see what hell on earth is like! I’ll bear the pain of losing my motherland. You know in the end – Truth and Goodness shall previal.

  • Arif

    Anonymous, feel sorry for yourself and your tattered and torn religion. I am liberated and don’t need your sorrow, save it for your co-religionists. Islam burns, Pakistan; once there were 2 now only one, separated from India because Muslims by nature fracture. In the Philippines you want separation, in Palestine you want separation, in Kosovo you got separation, in Kashmir you yearn for separation, in Sudan you want to eliminate all non-muslims and lesser muslims, in Pakistan you kill each other because you want purer muslims (read the news lately?). You want Spain, you want to see sharia in England, you burn tires and riot in France, wherever you are in a minority you feel you are “occupied”, what do you mean by “occupied” Kashmir, it was always there, Hindus were always there, if anything you occupied it. In the work place you want separation and special dispensation. We are tired of Islam. Kashmir if it gets independence or joins Pakistan will it still be “occupied”?

  • “Moderate”

    This moderate Muslim writers (Patel, Zakaria,etc) have no problem with Hindus not being able to get land in Kashmir but have huge problems with Hindus protesting in Jammu. What a bunch of intolerant, hypocrite “moderate” Muslims. And they are living in America but their intolerance and hate for non-Muslims has not gone away.May be they can name 3 or 4 Islamic nations (out of 56) where there are significant minorities (greater than 10 percent) and they have full religious and economic freedom.

  • Anonymous

    I was chagarined to read the following (abbreviated) story in the Hindustan Times of Aug. 23:The much-repeated story of families killing a girl child to have a son the next time has a number now.About 54 per cent of the foetus, aborted in the national Capital and neighbouring Haryana, were of a girl child.The figures are alarming because Delhi and Haryana have the lowest sex ratio. Delhi has a ratio of 868 girls for every 1,000 boys and Haryana 820, while Punjab comes third with 793. The national figure is 925.Shantha Sinha, chairperson of the National Commission for Protection of Child Rights, said, “The act of killing a girl child is barbaric. It shows we may look modern but our thinking is still medieval. I demand stronger punishment of those involved in female foeticide.”

  • Harish

    These so called “moderate” Muslim writers living in America do not say that the reason for violence in Kashmir is because the population is majority Muslim and thus the intolerance and violence.So the writer is saying that even if the population was 99.5 percent Hindu, there still would be violence and calls for separation from India? Give me a break!These Muslims did not shed tears when hundreds of thousands of Hindus were killed and driven out of the Kashmir by Islamic terrorists.

  • Owais

    I thought Miss Kanjwal’s article on Eboo Patel’s blog was interesting one. She has given a real balanced account of what is going on in Kashmir at this time. Our other friends who have responded to her article are extremely ignorant about the ground realities. Kashmir was never part of India and was occupied on 21st of October 1947 when the Indian army first landed in Kashmir at the behest of the thenhindu ruler of Kashmir and have since stayed on. This since then has always been celebrated as the “darkest day” every year. Isn’t this an occupation? Some of my friends talk about Kashmir going to Pakistan, let me remind them that very few Kashmiri’s in real sense want it and the majority want total independence from both countries. Kashmiri Pundits (unfortunately the word does not exist any more) have been integral part of Kashmiriyat and can not separate themselves from their muslim brothren. I urge some of you not to please malign that relationship. I still have pundit friends who continue to take meals with me from the same “Thali” or “Trami” whatever you call it.

  • Irfan

    “Truth and Goodness will prevail”was the ending remark by one of the bloggers who responded to Hafsa Kanjwal’s article. I would not disagree with him or her (whatever Heemal means). Th truth is if Bhagat Sigh killed people or hurled the bomb in the court during British rule, he till date is revered as a freedom fighter, and while those, more than 150,000 Kashmiris who laid their life in the last 19 years of their legitimate struggle against the illegitimate occupation of their motherland are being called as terrorists.

  • John McCormack

    I think Hafsa’s article is wonderful. She is remarkably balanced, even though she would have every right to be emotional, given that she has experienced these issues first-hand. I commend her for her sensitive account. I do want to address Georgiason’s comment, which reeks of ignorance and intolerance. He/she uses ONE example to make his/her “case”, which is basically to suspect a whole group of people, millions strong, of wrongdoing. That he/she should refer to the Dark Ages in this context is wholly ironic. The basic American “values” he/she brings up would, if they are to be anything other than a romantic projection unto the past, precisely ensure that American Muslims have the same rights and privileges that all other Americans enjoy. To single out a whole group of people and judge them all on the basis of one incident is ludicrous. Have you ever even met a single American Muslim, Georgiason? I suggest you make an effort to do so. You may be pleasantly surprised that they have the same hopes and dreams that other Americans have–to be able to live life according to their own design, provided with the tools (educational, economic, etc.) to be independent and able if they so choose to raise a well-rounded family embedded in a tolerant and welcoming social context that appreciates their unique contributions to the American cultural fabric.Hafsa’s article, I think, addresses precisely this dynamic–people just want to be able to live in freedom, free from the regressive (and deliberately stoked) fires of religious intolerance.

  • dolivaw

    Ms Hafsa Kanjwal,J&K is a state of India and will remain a state of India, the unity of India is non-negotiable period. With non-violent protests, the Government of India will respond non-violently and wear the protestors down over time and time again. The only people who are going to be hurt economically by periodic strikes and hartal are the people in the valley and no one else. An increase in Pakistani aided terrorist activity in J&K will now be met with a two pronged attack by India from the east and west of Pakistan. All your article proves is your intense and blind hatred for Hindus. Kashmiriyat is whole lot of hot air now. After the ethnic cleansing of Hindus from the Kashmir Valley by your co-religionists, it is easy to talk about Kashmiriyat since practically it means nothing. If you think that 100 acres of land would have changed the demographic complexion of the valley then those people who believe it are complete fools to the say the least. For those wanting to become Pakistanis, the way is easy, cross over the border between Pakistan and India (the LOC for some) and they can join their brothers and sisters there and live in an Islamic Paradise such as it is today.

  • dolivaw

    Ms Hafsa Kanjwal,J&K is a state of India and will remain a state of India, the unity of India is non-negotiable period. With non-violent protests, the Government of India will respond non-violently and wear the protestors down over time and time again. The only people who are going to be hurt economically by periodic strikes and hartal are the people in the valley and no one else. An increase in Pakistani aided terrorist activity in J&K will now be met with a two pronged attack by India from the east and west of Pakistan. All your article proves is your intense and blind hatred for Hindus. Kashmiriyat is whole lot of hot air now. After the ethnic cleansing of Hindus from the Kashmir Valley by your co-religionists, it is easy to talk about Kashmiriyat since practically it means nothing. If you think that 100 acres of land would have changed the demographic complexion of the valley then those people who believe it are complete fools to the say the least. For those wanting to become Pakistanis, the way is easy, cross over the border between Pakistan and India (the LOC for some) and they can join their brothers and sisters there and live in an Islamic Paradise such as it is today.

  • Anonymous

    THAT WAS UGLY

  • Concerned Hoya

    It saddens me to read some of the comments on Hafsa’s article, and to read some of the extremely hurtful and severely under-researched statements that people have made. The solution to the Kashmir issue does not lie in looking into the past and licking old wounds, nor does it lie in indiscriminate religion-bashing. Hafsa’s valuable contribution to the debate on this controversial issue is that she understands the dynamics of colonial vestige, political ego and religion, but also understands that underneath these veils lies the fact that in every human being’s core, there is a desire to choose and shape one’s own destiny. I can’t fathom how all of you, each exercising your right to free speech from the comfort of your keypad and computer screen, could possibly disagree with that point.

  • R K

    Excellent article Ms. Kanjwal.To the authors posting negative comments: Everyone has a right to their own opinion, and to oppose any view he or she wishes. However, personally attacking the writer is unnecessary and if you are productive enough to read this column then surely you can be productive enough to reflect on whether or not your commentary is relative to the discussion.

  • Anonymous

    Balanced article and a short concise summary of Kashmir’s current turmoil. Hafsa blames both India and Pakistan for the woes in Kashmir. She has not only mentiond the phrase “Indian occupied Kashmir” but also refered it as “Pakistan occupied Kashmir”. As a Pakistani I did not feel offended. The facts speak for themselves. She should be in fact commended as she has witnessed it first hand both possibly when she was a child and now when she understands the events unfolding. Labelling her a fundamentalist Islamist would be an act of ignorance.

  • dolivaw

    Oh right only Ms. Hafsa understands the dynamics of the situation? For instance calling a free and fairly elected state Govt.,(held when the BJP led NDA Govt. was in power at Centre no less) a puppet of the Govt of India. What does she expect when one major constituent of the now dissolved state Govt (The Congress Party) also heads the Govt. of India. All state govts in India irrespective of their party affiliations (Cong, BJP or the Communists) abide by what their political HQ decides. Atleast the unfortunate (for Hindus that is) Amarnath land controversy has shown the rest of Indians the true face of Mehbooba Mufti Syed and sadly Omar Abdullah. I do understand the yearning for freedom and for those who want to become Pakistanis, they only have to cross the border and can then live in ‘Azad’ Kashmir in the Islamic Paradise of Pakistan. I hope Mr. Geelani shows he is a true leader and becomes the first person to cross over the border. As for the true face of Kashmiriyat here’s a quote to reflect on: “I will advise Kashmiri Pandits not to take a foolish step to return to the Valley. And those leaders who have sympathy with the Pandits’ return, leave Kashmir and stay with them in Jammu,” – Ahsan Dar – Founder Hizbul Mujahideen [ Aug’03-2008 ]Hope Ms Hafsa understands the dynamics, the religion etc of what the import of the quote is.

  • dolivaw

    Ms Hafsa,The land transfer wasnt illegal. It was approved by the State Govt. for allowing better facilities for the Amarnath pilgrims following the deaths of hundreds of pilgrims a few years back due to lack of adequate and more permanent facilities. The charge you lay at BJP of communalizing should probably be laid at feet of the State Govt. of J&K which capitulated so cravenly to the anti-national and terrorist supporting APHC and revoked the order. I guess they did it for electoral gains too! Imagine the uproar if a similar such facility for Haj pilgrims was denied. Golly, those oppresive Govt. of India and dastardly Hindus. Being a Hindu nation (which culturally India is) and yet having the largest Muslim population in the world isnt mutually exclusive. And as to the Gujarat riots, please they didnt take place in vacuum, the trigger being burning alive of 59 returning Hindu pilgrims in a railway coach by a Muslim mob.

  • nadeem

    Dear Hafsa, Thank you so much for writing this. The actions of Hindutva organizations are too often ignored, and too often they are given a free pass under the guise of politics when it comes to ethics, morality, and valuing human life. Sadly, the BJP is gaining influence in India. When will India grow a backbone and say that enough is enough? I understand what you mean about living in fear of one’s safety. It’s a sad state of affairs in the world today. “Seek Allah’s help with patient perseverance and prayer. It is indeed hard except for those who are humble.” (2:45)Take care!

  • Cynthia P. Schneider

    This thoughtful and informative posting reveals the danger of categorizing every conflict in the Middle East or Asia as religion-based. While it is true that the west sometimes has seen only politics when deep ethnic and religious tensions simmered(Iraq), Hafsa Kanwal explains that in this case, Kashmir has been treated as a political pawn in the ongoing tension between India and Pakistan. Whether this makes a solution for Kashmir easier or more difficult to attain, I leave to Kanwal and others famliar with the situation to determine, but, at the very least, the author argues persuasively that the situation in Kashmir should be approached as the political conflict it is, and not as a Muslim-Hindu dispute.

  • Zaffar

    Wonderful article!!

  • Joseph

    This is so ironic that people are pouring venom on an article which I thought was true to its core. All of a sudden all “Dhotiwallas” have become defensive about the heineous crimes being committed by those goons in Khaki in Kashmir. This discussion would not have taken place had it not have been for a piece of icicle called “Shiv Lingum” formed in a cave in Kashmir accidently discovered by no other than a Kashmiri Muslim. It was till only few years ago that Muslims along with local Kashmiri Pundits took such a great care of it. At that time the fundamentalist Hindus from India took it over at the behest of a demented old Fart called Sinha, the then governor of occupied Kashmir.

  • Deb Chatterjee

    The asinine comments by Joseph regarding Kashmir shows ignorance of contemporary world affairs.For example, hypothetically, if today the people of California or Texas, where Latinos are in majority, would like to secede (for cultural reasons – a claim similar in principle to that claimed by the Kashmiriyats) from US Republic and merge with Mexico or Spain, would the US Govt just allow that and watch the events with hands folded ? Or, is it probable that US Govt. would resist all such moves with utmost force ?We (Hindus) seem to rejoice our diversity when in many cases it has led to chaos and mistrust.

  • Joseph

    Oh, Mr Bengali baboa,

  • kashur

    Thanks Hafsa for such a nice article,I think it is high time for both India and Pakistan to resolve Kashmir issue.Kashmiri people have suffered a lot and are still suffering.We get bullets for holding peacefull demostrations and people on the otherside of valley get Cold drinks and Hugs for holding demontrations,economic blockade and for burning the property of minority community .These people should be ashamed of themselves and they project themselves as secular democracy.They should learn lesson from kashmiri people who provided food to the Yatri’s( Amarnath Pilgrims) and one more thing what ever happened in kashmir NOT A SINGLE YATRI WAS ATTACKED.

  • kashur

    I agree with Joseph and for Mr Chaterrjee can you answer my one question ;

  • kashur

    I agree with Joseph and for Mr Chaterrjee can you answer my one question ;

  • Shabir.H.Shah

    A very fine article by Ms.Hafsa who unlike some drawing-room commentators on Kashmir,had a first hand experience of the atrocities committed by the so called ‘Biggest democracy’ i.e.India.Even as I write these words there is total suppress- ion,News blackout,curfew and certianly the largest show of force on earth in full battle gear(7,00,000 military and parmilatary personel)out on the streets of Kashmir,in city and every village and town to subjugate a population of half a million Kashmiris under Indian occupation.Just yesterday and today there have been several incidents of firing on unarmed, peaceful protestors in which several people have died and hundreds injured.

  • Jayesh

    A Muslim separatist leader has said he wants all aspects of life in Kashmir to be governed by Islam. What happens to non-Muslims? Most of them have already been killed and driven out. Where is Patel’s article on the plight of non-Muslims?Does it also mean wherever Muslims become in majority (could happen in the U.S. as well), they will ask for a separate Islamic nation?Islam invaded India in 1200s. It was all Hindu/Buddhist before that. Kashmir and Porkistan all belong to Hindus but Hindus do not believe in strapping on a suicide belt and blowing up human beings to get their land back.Latest: civilians blown up peace loving Muslims today in Darfur, Porkistan, Phillipines, Algeria….all in the name of IslamLatest:

  • Dolivaw

    Kashur: If only the Kashmiris had shown the same hospitality to its own Pandits when they were being ethnically cleansed in the late eighties and early nineties and they were not guests, they were living in their own houses for most. And as to not a single Yatri being not harmed, it wasnt for the lack of trying though. In July the Indian Authorities found 1.5 Kg of RDX on the road leading to the Shrine and used by the Pilgrims. It is not a so called largest democracy, it is the largest democracy where nearly 450 million or thereabouts people are entitled to vote in free and fair central, state and local elections. We did hold a free and fair election in J&K when the BJP led NDA was in power at the centre and guess what the Congress and PDP was voted in and the power was transferred peacefully. If the demographics of the state of J&K had truly changed, the state election would have decidedly been different i can assure you and we would have had a BJP MLA from the valley by now. Unfortunately the same cannot be said about the demographics of ‘Azad Kashmir’ or PK i.e, Punjabized Kashmir! Joseph: Do read the Hindu of 21st August to know about the ex-Governor Lt.Gen Sinha. Who knows you might want to rethink what you said about him. Shoukat Shah of Jamaat Ahl-e Hadith says he is not a right wing communalist, for he approved an Islamic University to be set up by that body in the state of J&K. And see above for the exaggerated importance of Kashmiris helping the yatris! For most, it is a good business to transport the yatris i.e., pure commercial activity. And Some Kashmiris may not feel themselves as Indians and as i pointed out in my earlier posts.they are free to take a single way trip to Muzaffarabad and join ‘Azad’ Kashmir in the Islamic Republic of Pakistan where Islam will never be in danger! Hopefully IROAR (Independent Republic of Arundhati Roy) will do the same and write about glorious Taliban in tribal areas of Pakistan and the inequities facing the minorities of Azad Kashmir (i.e, the Kashmiris themselves reduced to minority by Punjabi Pakistanis). Am sure an interview of Mullah Omar by her would be a treat to read.J&K will remain part of the Union of India, as it is a sacred Hindu land and the Shiv Lingam which is an icicle yes, wasnt discovered by a Muslim shepherd for the first time. Its existence in history has been known for a very long time. Its just another canard being spread to depict the cravenly anti-Hindu, pro-Taliban mindset of Geelani & company as a peaceful manifestation of Kashmiriyat which it most definitely isnt! Nadeem: India does have a backbone thank you very much, the Ummah unfortunately hasnt ever grown one! Do read Robert Fisk’s excellent book on the conquest of the Middle East to know about how the Muslim rulers of various countries have gone about efficiently in the twentieth century to prolong their rule! Closer home the role of Gen.Zia in Jordan in 1970, the Pakistan Army’s role in erstwhile East Pakistan in ethnic cleansing and genocide, Gen. Musharraf’s ‘To do a Bugti’ and of course ISI’s role in the creation, nurturing, training, arming and controlling Taliban are apt lessons am sure. As to IROAR (see above for definition), i hope she finds a country she would like to live in on the planet earth (Talibanland hopefully). If not, a petition for naming her as a candidate for India’s manned or human mission to the moon gets my vote. Vir Sanghvi has a paper to sell so he is going to be provocative. One partition of the Country was enough! Never again. The price of Kashmir is worth more than 5 billion dollars that the Central Govt has given the state. Its time to stress and out the corruption of the political leaders in J&K! Implicit in his article is his foolish belief that normalcy will return i.e, no Pakistan backed, aided and abetted Islamic terrorism in India once lets say the Kashmir valley is allowed to secede. It would be like a shark smelling blood and going in for the kill and fostering ever more bloodier and deadlier terrorist attacks in India. The old Mughal dream of ruling Delhi isnt quite died yet in Pakistan. So J&K will remain Indian and the valley people can either enjoy the fruits of economic development in India and participate fully as citizens as is their due or keep going on daily strikes economically hurting no one but themselves alone. I hope the Govt. of India takes lessons from the fact that they allowed Geelani a passport to visit the US for medical treatment for his cancer last year. They probably regret that decision now. Moreover, with the rise in inflation and series of errors by the present UPA Govt i.e., Ram Setu, Afzal, the terrorist bombs, Maoist violence, Amarnath Land reversal, the rise of Mayawati in splitting the Congress vote bank, no communal violence in BJP ruled states of Rajasthan, Karnataka and Gujarat even after terrorist bomb attacks there ..the BJP has a very good chance of being reelected to power in the next general elections.

  • Kashur Boy

    wonderful article. Ms Hafsa we appreciate you writing this article. Being a kashmiri I can understand the pain you must have undergone while being in kashmir. I go through this trauma each and everytime. So does every muslim of kashmir living here in this unfortunate piece of land. For Dolivaw and other pandit brothers. It is unfortunate you are giving a name of ethnic cleansing and pandit holocaust to the death of 256 pandits in this whole turmoil. You should be ashamed because you dont utter a word for 150,000 kashmir muslims who were butchered by you so called security forces. Our whole generation was killed and you dont utter a word for that. You were not evicted out of kashmir but you opted for it and the then governer Jagmohan helped you getting out of kashmir. When our kids were disappearing in custodies Indian government was offering your kids admissions in prestigious universities. Only thing you lost was your identity. Even the government employees we getting doublly paid.They were drawing money both from kashmir and jammu. I dont understand what did pandits loose in this whole turmoil. I really fail to understand.

  • dolivaw

    Kashmiriyat truly buried.. please read Geelani’s interview to Rediff. Visions of another Wahhabi funded Islamic paradise.

  • Kashur

    DolivawKashmiri Pandits left kashmir not because of kashmiri muslim or there was any kind of threat to them,They did so under the infuence of then Governer of J & K who misled them.In kashmir we are still living together with Sikhs nobody told them to leave.You are talking about Democracy and the meaning of Indian democracy is alltogether different in Kashmir,just go online and see what they are doing in kashmir today,They are opening fire on peaceful demostrations ,ambulances carrying the injured people are not allowed to reach hospital ,Journalists are being attacked.People of kashmir are not interested in your elections,they just want to get rid of Indian Occupation ,for last 62 years india has failed to get AZADI(Right to self Determination) out of the kashmir MINDS,Even by using brutal forces and you know the ratio of Army VS Civil people in kashmir is,for 3 kashmiri their is One army men to control.Right now its peoples movement and you cannot suppress it by any force in the world .Let me tell honestly people of kashmir is not against Yatra or Yatri ,even if kashmiri pandits wana come back we will be more than happy to welcome them ,but kashmiri will not compromise on their RIGHT FOR SELF DETERMINATION.

  • Deb Chatterjee

    Kashur wrote (in ressponse to Dolivaw):”Kashmiri Pandits left kashmir not because of kashmiri muslim or there was any kind of threat to them,They did so under the infuence of then Governer of J & K who misled them.”That’s unsubstantiated garbage. To be precise, read an excellent article in The National Geographic (September 1997, pp. 100-123) which had a special issue on Kashmir and interviewed Kashmiri Pandits who were living as refugees in the trans-Jamuna extension in New Delhi. The gruesome details of slaughter of Kashmiri Pandits appeared in a major international magazine (known for its objectivity and fact finding missions) are documented. The radical Islam that defines this garbage of Azad and Azad Kashmir implies “Nizam-i-Mustafa” which means implementation of Shariah laws. This is confirmed by interviews with several ordinary Kashmiri Muslims who have stated that they want to secede from India and merge with Pakistan. The interesting thing is that thge same rascals who want to secede said that they still want to enjoy the benefits of India – like quota for jobs but want ti live in an Islamic state of Kashmir that has merged with Pakistan (Azad Kashmir). Also in the same article is the interview of fundamnentalist rabid Muslim woman Ayesha Andrabi who is heading the “Dukhtarani Millat”. This crazy woman is justifying the slaughter of the Kashmiri Hindu Pandits on one hand, and then being sympathetic to the hapless Islamic pogrom on the Kashmiri Pandits. When I read this article my heart swelled with anger and frustration, and the only I way I see to rid India of this pestilence called Islam is to declare India as a Hindu state and rewrite its Constitution accordingly. Otherwise we shall certainly see another series of mini-partitions if Kashmir goes away under the spell of this Wahabi fundamentalism preached by Geelani and his perverted ilk.

  • Joseph

    Bengali Baboa,

  • Chris

    It is really sad to know about the present turmoil in Kashmir. People are suffering as Hindu Extremists in Jammu have enforced economical blockade of kashmir valley. Ms Hafsa has done a comendable job. People are entitled to what they write in response to this article but I am seeing people are writing things which are not even related to this article and present situation in kashmir.Also some people have started attacking the religion of this writer which is too low on their part.People should understand that they live in this great country and should not behave like those living in third world countries like India. This speaks of ignorance on part of these people. I think it is easy for us to comment while having a luxury of safety and freedom of speech, we should at the same time think of the people who are being killed for protesting against economical blockade, against the scarcity of food and medicines. Just today I learnt that even doctors in hospitals and ambulances are not allowed to reach the injured. This is the worst form of a state sponsored terrorism against innocent kashmiris. How can a democratic country like India do it in Kashmir. On one hand Protestors in Jammu are offered cold drinks and food for burning Kashmiri muslims with petrol bombs, while the peaceful protestors even with harming any body are showered with bullets.

  • Anonymous

    Muslims ruled a large part of Hindu majority India for three hundred years before the British came. It was considered normal for a Muslim minority to rule the Hindu majority. So at the time of Indian independence when some Muslims feared Hindu majority could rule a Muslim minority, they wanted a separate country.So India was carved up into Pakistan and current Bangladesh on religious grounds alone. Millions were displaced and millions lost their lives.Nearly 140 million Muslims still live among Hindus in India. Except for a few clashes in certain parts, the vast majority of Muslims live at peace with majority Hindus.In Kashmir, again it is religion that is behind the drive for a separate country. Moral of the story: Muslims consider it perfectly natural to rule others even if Muslims are the minority but they will not tolerate non-Muslim rule.It is a historical trend that needs noting and learning from.Again: India was carved up into Pakistan and Bangladesh on religious grounds. Kashmir is again asking for separation on religious grounds although 140 million Muslims live in India.Kashmiri Muslims, Muslims currently the part of Pakistan and Bangladesh lived as part of India during Muslim rule and during British rule.

  • Anonymous

    Since Islam is a political religion, it is impossible for Muslims in Kashmir to keep politics out. They fool only the naive that the problems in Kashmir and their demand for a separate country does not have anything to do with political Islam. If India was so terrible to Muslims under its rule, why does 140 million Muslims living in India not choose to flee the country? Why have there been Muslim politicians, including in the highest offices?

  • Ajit

    Deb Chatterji and Anonymous:You make sweepy generalizations. Not all Hindus are bad people nor are all Muslims. I have great admiration for India’s democracy. But there are elements in India like BJP or Vishwa Hindu Parishad (World Hindu Congress) or VHP that create and threaten India’s democracy. Here is an item from Hindustan Times of Aug. 26:A 45-year-old woman, employed as a cook in a missionary school in Orissa’s Bargarh district, was burnt to death on Monday when the school was set on fire allegedly by Vishwa Hindu Parishad (VHP) protesters. The pastor running the school was also injured.The VHP-sponsored bandh, to protest the killing of their leader Swami Laxmanananda Saraswati and four disciples, witnessed attacks on churches and missionary schools across the state, reminiscent of the Graham Staines case in January 1999.In state capital Bhubaneswar, protesters stoned a church; churches in Kandhamal, Bargarh, Koraput Deogarh districts were also attacked.In state capital Bhubaneswar, protesters stoned a church; churches in Kandhamal, Bargarh, Koraput Deogarh districts were also attacked.Kandhamal remained tense as the Swami was cremated at his Ashram.

  • Deb Chatterjee

    Joseph (a probable phony name) wrote:”Kashmiri Pundits have always been labelled as Ciccis and instead of helping their Muslim brotheren at the time of need they fled away like cowards.”Name calling at Hindus (in this “Ciccis” for Kashmiri Pandits) is racist epithet. Kashmiri Muslims have been using that epithet against Hindus in Kashmir and irritating/provoking them into a confrontational situation. That’s one of the reasons why the Pandits left. Its a well crafted ploy to slaughter Kashmiri Hindu Pandits. The religion of Islam is purely barbaric: it calls for slaughter of all non-Muslims. Quran [009:005],[047:004] is explicit about that. Kashmiri Pandits fled because their neighbors, Kashmiri Muslims, were also killing the Kashmiri Pandit men and raping their women. This was done at the behest of their bodymasters in Pakistan. Truth hurts. Islam is afraid of the truth. India should declare itself as a Hindu state, and all other non-Muslim countries must consider revising its immigration policies to prevent Muslims from immigrating and spreading Islam there. I did not see the article by A. G. Noorani in Kashmir Times

  • Ganapathy Krishnamurthi

    The author seems to completely ignore the machinations of the pakistani government in the valley. Indian government and press have given ear to human rights organization who reported abuses by the Indian armed forces. The pakistani Govt and separatist leaders in Kashmiri have all but denied the killings of innocent women and children by the terrorists who are supported by them. The author clearly shows a bias.

  • Rajiv Shorey

    Anathor lieful piece by followers of the communalist crimnal terrorist of Kashmir called Syed Ali Sha Geelani.The kashmiri seperatists who preach seperation based on religion are flag bearers of religious bigots like Taleban, Al-Qaida etc.These separatist Kashmiri leaders have done ethnic cleansing of all Hindu’s from the Kashmir Valley.I cannot find greater criminals than this seperatists in the valley. I say send them all to Pak and Afganistan to live among the Talebanis.

  • Krishnamachary

    Kashmir is now infested with Pakistani terrorist men who are muslims. Governments is duty bound to protect the state as the rest of India by decimation the terrorists. The local kashmiri Muslims are guilty of displacing the Pundits who are the real Kashmiris to other states as refugees by ruthless terror tactics. Converts to Islam by Aurangajeb are the present day muslims living in Kashmir valley by sheer numerical audaucity. They should be deported ‘en masse’ for their criminal activities out of the state.

  • Raj

    The character of the seperatist movement can be easily judged by the conduct of its leader – Syd Ali Gheelani.After commiting ethnic genocide and cleansing on the minority Hindu population in teh Kashmir Valley – he publicly says that Hindus can come back to the valley only if they support the ‘movement’.He went a step forward by publicly declaring in a mass rally that ‘we are Pakistanis’ !I have no problem with him being Pakistani or whatever – but he should not be allowed to mount criminal terrorist operations against the minorities in Kashmir valley like he did against the Hindu pundits and should be expelled to his proclaimed motherland along with his venal, communalist fans.There is no place for criminal, communalists like Gheelani and Kashmiri separatists who have expelled the minority Hindu population from Kashmir valley — in any democratic, secular nation.India should follow the french example and expell all this anti-secular, anti-national, pro-Taleban, Pro-Alqaida leaders.

  • Mohamed MALLECK

    Thank you, Hafsa, for giving WAPO readers a concrete demonstration, through your interpretation of events currently unfolding in Kashmir, of how peace-loving and compliant to the point of near-submissiveness the Muslim population of India is.I have myself contrasted your interpretation with that of Arundhati Roy in Outlook India ( Regarding your statement to the effect that ” the issue here is the continued manipulation by both India and Pakistan, as they compete to comfort their own egos at the expense of not only the Kashmiri people, but also their own citizens”, I think that you are a little out of date. If anything, where Pakistan may have been meddling twelve years ago or so, one could argue that, since Musharraf came to power, Kashmiri Muslims have been let down by the Pakistanis, preferring to lok the other way where Arundhati Roy, Sri Raman and so many others see intolerable oppression of Kashmiri Muslims and the destruction of their just aspirations for “Azadi”.I commend you on the constructive, peaceful appraoch to protest and will join you in strongly recommending the appraoch to the Muslims of India. But, there is a line to be drawn between a constructive approach and abject compliance and, worse, submissiveness.

  • Raj

    The Kashmiri separatists are now totally marginalized. Earlier – they farcically used to claim support from all of Jammu and Kashmir.Today these criminal separatists – who have ethnically cleansed the Kashmir valley of all non-Muslims in a most venal, criminal, communalist operation – cannot even set a foot in Jammu.The following of this communalist leaders is restricted among the people of the valley – residing on a narrow piece of land no bigger than 10mile by 100 mile.The road to PoK should be opened for all those that do not subscribe to the secular, democractic constitution of India to leave for Taleban admnistrated areas in PAK AND aFGANISTAN.

  • Deb Chatterjee

    Ajit wrote:”The VHP-sponsored bandh, to protest the killing of their leader Swami Laxmanananda Saraswati and four disciples, witnessed attacks on churches and missionary schools across the state, reminiscent of the Graham Staines case in January 1999.In state capital Bhubaneswar, protesters stoned a church; churches in Kandhamal, Bargarh, Koraput Deogarh districts were also attacked.”Well, while unfortunate VHP has an axe to grind. You state that their leader/guru, Swami Laxmanananda Saraswati, was killed. The “usual” suspects were the Christian missionaries. And that is unfortunate.However, Mother Theresa used to convert first and then accept destitutes in her missionary in Kolkata. While the deed is noble, conversion first followed by service is not morally uplifting.Also: do you know the status of the Christian minorities in Saudi Arabia, Pakistan etc. ? Do you know what rights they have vis-a-vis those in India ?Unfortunate incidents do happen. My position is that if someone is so damned critical of a country, then please leave and go elsewhere. In India the majority rarely has a voice: witness the bomb blasts that are told to be expression of frustration of Islam. When Islam gets frustrated, it encourages its followers to blast bombs. Still, the last President of India was a Muslim: Abul Pakir Jainal Abedin Abdul Kalam. And, I agree that all Muslims are NOT terrorists. But MOST terrorists are Muslims.

  • Kris

    This is a poor attempt to distance Islam from the Kashmir problem. As far as I know, even when it first began, the Hindu minorities of Kashmir were the first and only ones to bear the brunt. Over 400,000 Hindus are believed to have left Kashmir fearing for their lives. Much of their property was lost and their return is now almost impossible considering threats to their lives from various Islamist groups claiming to fight for Kashmir. Of course, many muslims have now suffered as well in large part due to the Pakistan-funded armed groups and the responses they provoke from the security forces.But, mostly, the author has tried to evoke some favorable emotions to go along with what is clearly a less than honest attempt to potray the Kashmiri problem as a non-religious one.

  • Indian

    On this particular issue, The fault lies in the irresponsible leadership of Omar Abdullah and the PDP leadership who started this protest against building facilities for Hindu piligrims and purely for electoral reasons. Of course, the BJP did not want to ne left behind.

  • Kris

    It is interesting that people who condone extremism by not criticizing it sincerely or strongly enough, and who espouse pluralism in all other countries except their own, are also the first to join interfaith dialog-, secularism- and human rights-promoting groups! I guess they get the cover they need to convince gullible people.

  • Mehmood Ahmed

    What Hafsa Kanjwal has not mentioned at all in her analysis that 400,000 Kashmiri Hindus were driven out of Kashmir by these sepratists and the terrible plight of these poor refugees has not moved the conscience of any human rights group anywhere.This type of blatant ethnic cleansing in this day and age nullifies any moral basis for ‘freedom’ for Kahmiri seperatists. This also endangers the This does not represent the views of moderate Muslims in India; it endangers them, and is so terribly shameful to completely ignore the egregious injustice fostered by Kashmiri Muslims on Kashmiri Hindus. This is not commensurate with Shame on you Eboo and Shame on you Hafsa !!

  • Babloo

    The greatest threat to Muslims and Islam — comes not from others but from within by leaders like Geelani who present a fanatical face – excluding other religions.Over whelming majority of Muslims in India – including many in Kashmir want to live in peace and harmony with all. Its the duty of the Indian state to isolate and deal with criminal rabble rousers like Geelani.

  • Mohamed MALLECK, Toronto, Canada

    Kris, Raj, Babloo, R K Singh, Mehmood Ahmed, Indian,When did you last visit Kashmir? When did you last visit India?Hafsa was in Kashmir in July (i.e. last month); I myslef was in India two months back.Have you read the current issue of Outlook India?Have you read Arundhati Roy’s opinion piece? I am quoting her not because, as you might think because you have not read her piece, she is uniformly pro-Muslim. She has hard truths to tell to everybody. But, yes, her conclusion, based on objective examination of the record, is that Muslims have been opressed for too, too long in Kashmir.

  • Anonymous

    The criminal propoganda of oppression is farcical and diabolical.Muslims make up 90 % of the police force in the Valley. Muslims make up 90 % of government jobs in the Valley. Almost all the chief-ministers of Jammu and Kashmir have been valley Muslims – even though Jammu now has a greater population that Kashmir Valley after the criminal communalists expelled all the Hindus.No amount of lies can mask the pro-Taleban, anti-minority character and agenda of the separatist leaders – many of them funded by Pakistan.

  • Anonymous

    If India is to be declared a Hindu country, what about non-Hindus like Sikhs, Jains, Buddhists, Christians etc including the non-caste tribals? The “usual” suspects, Christian missionaries??????? There are well known Hindu militant organizations that use violence in the name of Hinduism.If there is one thing Mother Theresa did NOT do is convert anyone her missionary order offered help to Catholic charities do not force convert anyone.What by the way is a Hindu who wants to declare India as a Hindu state because 85% of its population is Hindu, doing in the United States, a country with a Christian majority?

  • sanfranmac

    The truth is that all of Kashmir and all of Pakistan- have been a part of India for as long as human civilization has existed. Taxila- in Pakistan- was a HINDU university until it was ransacked by marauding, pillaging, raping Muslims- who didn’t think twice about burning entire libraries filled with knowledge, writing and scientific treatises. Pakistan, was HACKED out of the body of India in 1947 for Muslims, thanks to Jinnah. On his deathbed, even Jinnah admitted in one of his last recorded statement, saying ‘What have I done?’. To the writers of the article: removing historical precedence from the current conflict is a HUGE disservice you do your readers, and ultimately yourselves as journalists. I suspect, the Islamic feeling welling within supersedes any journalistic objectivity you bring to the equation. And while we’re on the record, it wasn’t 400,000 Hindus who were driven out of Kashmir- it was 562,447. The numbers are available to anybody who visits New Delhi’s offices for the rehabilitation of the Hindu Kashmiris and pandits.

  • Anonymous

    Hindu militants have been known to attack not just Muslims but also Christian missionaries in North India. Fortunately militant Hindus are a very small group.

  • Anonymous

    Most of the best known schools, private colleges and hospitals in India are run by Catholics (especially Jesuits and Selasians). None of them have been accused of force converting anyone or offering any religious education to non-Catholics.

  • Rajiv

    The entire Kashmir separatist movement – is based on anti-minority, communal principles. Here is their big leader in his own words regarding why he wants to secede. This guy however speaks for only a narrow, rabid following and does not represent all the muslims in Kashmire Valley or anywhere. They are flag bearers of Taleban and Al-Qaida.from TimesOfIndia.Addressing a mammoth gathering at the tourist reception centre here, Gillani said there was “no solution to the Kashmir issue other than merger with Pakistan”. “We are Pakistanis and Pakistan is us because we are tied with the country through Islam,” he roared, as the crowd cheered him and chanted: “Hum Pakistani hain, Pakistan hamara hai” (We are Pakistanis, Pakistan is ours). ———–As you can see in his communal state there is no place for non-Muslims. Well all such communalists should be sent to Pakistan.

  • Anonymous

    Religious extremists of any stripe, whether Hindu or Muslim seem to be marked by a common feature – hatred for those who are not like them. How pathetic.

  • Deb Chatterjee

    Actually my best (optimistic) view is the following:1. Kashmir goes out of India, and India declares itself as a Hindu nation. This would rid India of the pestilence of Islamic terrorism.2. Pakistan disintegrates into smithreens. It should be that way, because it is a failed state. Just read the DAWN newspaper. There is always a barrage of sick reports on killings, whippings and beheadings of people who don’t support Islamic fundamentalism. The madrassas with their mad mullahs are breeding bomb-throwing radicals like rats. (Already Nawaz Sharif and Asif Ali Zardari are at each other’s throats. So, what’s new ?)3. NATO captures the control Pakistan, and continues to patrol the streets of Lahore, Karachi, Islamabad, Multan and Quetta till all madrassas are torn down and all mullahs have their beards plucked off by monkeys. Their faces swell heavily due to mishandling by primates, and the pain inflicted upon these mullahs by the animals (monkeys) temporarily disable them to chant the Quran. 4. Women start going to school to get a decent western education. We see a slow gradual rejection of the burqa and also radical Islam, due to prolonged presence of western personnel.5. Kashmir, once independent, realizes that it is not economicaly a viable commodity – no jobs, no industries, only mosques and mosques, cannot afford to self-sustain. It begs India to accept it on any terms and signs an agreement of accession by India. Raja Hari Singh has the last laugh from his grave.

  • Deb Chatterjee

    I have read the comments from most of the bloggers and agree with them. Babloo makes a very good point about the studied silence of the separatist leaders like Shabbir Shah, Yasin Malik and others when ethnic cleansing of Kashmiri Hindu Pandits were going on in full glee. Note that at that time (1990s) US State Separtment used to bring out annual Human Rights abuses about Kashmir, and only to condemn Indian Government on using force against Muslim minorities there. Well, those biased reports aimed at pleasing Pakistan – the US ally in the world of terror – never mentioned the ethnic cleansing of the Kashmiri Hindu Pandits. This hypocrisy of USA (being the world’s only superpower) in siding with the Pakistani propaganda was the major source of encouragement of the successive goverments in Pakistan. The failed state of Pakistan used those reports against India toi whip India at the UNHRC meetings on a regular basis. The present crisis of Kashmir has been precipitated by UPA-led Congress Government. With the proliferation of the home-grown SIMI (Studsent Islamic Movement of India) terrorists, the UPA faces enormous challenge and realizes that with the absence of POTA (which it quickly repealed) it cannoty do a jack. Now it has bungled on the Amarnath shrine issue. Kashmir should in principle NEVER be allowed to secede, but with UPA government in power at New Delhi, it probably will. However such secession would spell disaster for India because then pockets of Muslim majority states would also claim Independence and resort to terrorist activities, thanks to SIMI presence. This eventually would mean Hindus would be living in the Islamic Republic of India in the next few decades, and paying Jiziya as dhimmis. I think that’s the gameplan that UPA Government with PM Monkey Singh (Manmohan Singh) has finally realized. It would have many other accomplices such as SP and Communists etc. Oh yes ! Mohammed Malleck’s (Swift Current, Canada) darling – this Arundhati Roy – a converted Muslim after marriage is now supporting Kashmiri Jihadists. She is trying to legalize the concept of secession that accepts theocratic aspirations. Of course she will win hearts of the likes of Mohamed Malleck. India should be ruled by someone who is like Narendra Modi – someone who is not afraid to take bold steps and can show some steel.

  • Sri

    I am really sorry Hafsa for all the atrocities that are taking place in J&K on your close friends and relatives. But does that mean I want a change of ownership of my state? Whatever happened to patriotism? I have friends who are Hindus and have lived in Pakistan since 1947 by matter of choice. The Hindu populations do not ask for Pakistan to be a part of India every time they go through a rough phase just because they think they will be safer being part of India as Hindus. You can’t just say ‘Hey they’re torturing us here, can we be a part of a different country?’

  • Deb Chatterjee

    Anonymous:These are some quips from my side to your loud thoughts:1. India should become a Hindu state so that it can rid itself of Islamic radicalism. (SIMI activists want India to become and Islamic state. They want “Islamization” and are using the bounties of secularism to further their agenda. This can be stopped if this pseudo-secularism is stopped. Just look at Kashmir.) 2. VHP has an axe to grind. Christian missionaries had been proselytizing the poor. That is, the poor were lured with money and they converted to Christianity. But, then their status did not improve socially. What happened in the meantime was that suddenly the numbers of Christians increased in India. I do not support the notion that conversion, by luring poor people with money, is a good thing to do. That’s a falsehood. It is false to claim that these poor people have suddenly been spiritually enlightened because they received some dollars/pounds. That the GOI should stop. VHP claims this against Christian missionaries. Just because India is secular, any form of malpractice cannot happen. That’s the point.3. You have been castigating Hindus, like me. However I encourage you to assess what’s the situation of Christians in Muslim countries. How many prominent leaders in Pakistan are Christians ? 4. It is indeed true that the best universities and schools are run by Jesuits and Salesians. (I went to a high school run by Salesians in Kolkata – Don Bosco. It was an excellent school.) That does not mean conversion to Christianity by money is right.5. VHP has the full right to condemn and agitate against such activities. They represent majority of Indians: Hindus. It is unfortunate that you have no sense of reciprocity. In USA we often see and hear Christian tele-evangelsists getting extremely vocal and aggressive about promoting Christian values. I don’t see it as wrong. As long as they don’t personally offend me, I am fine. If they can project their values, claiming to represent the majority – Christians, what is wrong with VHP doing the same in India ? OR are you implying that what is good for White Christians is not good for brown skinned darkies (aka Hindus) ? What is your point in griping against VHP ?

  • PJ

    Ms. Kanjwal continually mentions that she longs for the ‘memories of her youth’, when Kashmir was a paradise on Earth. I find it interesting that she does not mention what exactly it was that turned Kashmir from a paradise into what it is today: NOT India, but Pakistan.Yes, indeed. It was those Pakistan-armed, Pakistan-supported, and Pakistan-trained militants who began causing problems in 1990- not Kashmiri Muslims mind you- but Pakistani Extremists. Until 1989 both Hindus and Muslims lived in relative peace with one another until political intereference by Pakistan made the situation otherwise. Pakistan cannot stomach the fact that in India Hindus and Muslims have lived in realtive peace with each other and Kashmir is a staunch example of that. To Pakistan, Kashmir threatens the very existence of their own nation- a predominantly Muslim land that chooses NOT to be a part of their country.Ask a Kashmiri Muslim in India if they’d like to move to Pakistani Kashmir and I can tell you the answer will be overwhelmingly ‘no.’ What has happened to Pakistani Kashmir? Non-kashmiris have re-settled there and due to a lack of education, assistance by the government, no health care, and no livelihood, the people there are suffering at the hands of Pakistan. People in Indian Kashmir are also sufering, but not at the hands of India- while the Indian forces have no doubt committed atrocities, the majority of the violence and frustration has been spawned by the extremists, not by the Indian government.Kashmir will always be an integral part of India. Kashmir is a historically Hindu land which has an ancient Vedic tradition. Nevertheless, you don’t see Hindus complaining that Kashmir is now mostly Muslim- you only see Hindus complaining about the violence and the fact that they cannot live there in peace. Kashmir is, always will be, and is better off as, an integral part of India.

  • Deb Chatterjee

    As a final thought, suppose Kashmir seceded, and with covert assistance from the UPA-led Govt., led by Monkey Singh, then India should redefine herself as:1. The HINDU REPUBLIC OF INDIA2. Modify the Constitution to protect and prioritize Hindu interests.3. Enforce the Uniform Civil Code (Article 44 of the Indian Constitution).4. Abolish all quota systems in jobs/education etc. for minorities that currently exists. 5. Treat Muslims and other minorities with equal respect and dignity as long as they behave as responsible citizens of India. Else, they are free to leave. This, in my view would protect the interests of the majority (India) of India. Go anywhere in the world, almost all protect the interests of the majority of the population including USA. Why should India be an exception ?

  • Anonymous

    Deb Chatterjee:Agreed there is a reservation of seats at educational institutions and for jobs for the lower caste Hindus. It is a marvelous achievement.The discussion was however the freedom to convert to another religion from Hinduism. The ban on conversion from Hinduism to another religion seems no different from the Sharia Law apostacy, although conversion is not punished by death.Freedom to change religions is fundamental. Hinduism should not deny it to Hindus.Hinduism simply means the religions practiced by people living in a geographical area that is known as India.

  • Anonymous

    Deb Chaterjee:The point of converting to a religion other than Hinduism is to escape the caste system altogether.No matter how rich or educated a low caste Hindu may be, he still remains low caste as far as the religion is concerned.

  • Anonymous

    Deb Chatterjee:The rising trend of Islamic extremism in India with a population of 140 million Muslims is a serious concern. The solution has to be sought in reform of Islam in India and interfaith dialogue between Hindus and Muslims.

  • Anonymous

    I am an Indian muslim and I am proud of it.We muslims in India believe Kashmir is an integral part of India.Muslims fought war against Pakistan and China. What happened in Gujarat has raised very serious questions.When you speak to somebody and tell them that 2000 muslims where massacred on the streets of Gujarat, and women were raped, and pregnant women had their stomach slit open, normal people, or people who are outside the situation, recoil in horror. But people inside the situation say things like ;They diserved it’. and how do you deal with that? It isnt coincidence that the massacre of muslims in Gujarat happened after september 11. Gujarat is also one place where the toxic wastes of World Trade Centre is being dumped right now [1]1.’Chinese steel firm buys 50000 Tonnes of WTC scrap, Agence France-Press 23 Jan 2002.See WTC scrap at Gujarat Port awaits Toxicity tests, Indian express 17 April 2002.

  • Seerat Farooqi

    Dear Hafsa,In your article you have mentioned that the State Government had alloted 100 acres of land from Pahalgam & Sonmarg to SASB but it is to correct you that it was not 100 acres but 800 acres of land from our motherland “Kashmir”. Many people have lost their lives in this matter Muslim drivers have been killed on the National Highway by petrol bombs and this has been denied by the Central Govt. Moreover Kashmir is facing an economic blockade which is again being denied by the State & Govt of India. We are suffering a lot but there are questions I want to ask the people of India espcially Govt of India:Q1: Why are innocent people (Kashmiris) being killed, harrased & tortured by armed forces?Q2: We have been serving yatries since more than 100 years then why is there a need for land transfer? Q3: The ecology of Pahalgam & Sonmarg is disturbed during Amarnath Yatra what measures have been taken by the State & Govt. of India for that?Q4: Why is this matter being communalized by the Communal forces of India?Q5: When are our sufferings going to end & what measures have been taken by the Authorities for the matter?Q6: Why only members of SASB are involved in meetings with the officials why not Kasmiris?Q7: What was Govt of India doing till the matter worsened? Q8: When the yatra was for 15 days, then why it has been extetended for 3 months & the number of yatries has crossed 5 lakhs this year. What measures have been taken for ecology of the areas involved as the division bench of J & K High Court have restricted the entries of yatries beyound 3,000 at a point?

  • Anonymous2

    CCNL:OBSESSIVE, COMPULSIVE PERSONALITY DISORDER. Seek help.

  • Arif

    Muslims are encouraged to memorize things, they typically don’t exercise the thought process. A good example of the “thinking” Muslim is the following;Joseph aka Mohammed writes;Fristly I have to laugh then bring out the fact that Koran also specifically teaches Muslims kill people of other faiths.Here again classic Muslim “thinking” gone wild…”Yes, prophet Mohammed( pbuh) did have multiple wives at a time, I wish I had time and space to explain it to you, as that was the need of the hour at that time as many muslim woman had lost husbands in the wars they fought and they needed some form of protection, unlike your faith where they are supposed to burn themselves.”Mohammed and his gangsters were the aggressors they looted then killed off all the adult males, fornicated/raped the young women, enslaved them and/or married them. Please take the time, and there is lots of space to explain Mr. Joseph aka Mohammed; Why your prophet Moe was anything other than a womanizer and a warmonger?More scholarly “thinking”……and finally the icing…The genius at one point says he had to marry all those widows; think for once and you’ll realize that he helped in making them and to tops it off with a “potent man”?Fastest growing religion my arse!Arif (pbuh)

  • Intolerance

    CCNL; You are right. Last week WaPo ran an editorial about a publisher who dropped a plan to publish a book about prophet Mohamed and his 6 year old child bride-Aisha due to fear of Muslim violence.In fact, prophet had 9 wives including a ex daughter in law. And fought more than 9 wars. Fits the definition of a child rapist and a war mongerer. Yes he made up things and said Angel appeared to him to justify his lifestyle of lust and violence and intolerance. Example: present day Saudi Arabia where you can be arrested for carrying a Bible and their steady stream of terrorists including 9/11.And speaking of India and Muslim’s complaint here of intolerance and violence: India’s population is 4-5 percent Christian/Sikh. 4-5 is Buddhists. 15 percent is Muslim/terrorist.In fact, I read a interview of India’s top actor Shah Rukh Khan, a Muslim, who said the only reason he is a top actor in India is due to inherent secular and tolerant nature of Hindus.Muslims only need to read a newspaper to see how many Muslims are massacring civilians every single day all over the world all in the name of Islam.

  • Anonymous

    Wow. A graduate of Georgetown!! Says this is not religious! If kashmir wer majority Hindus, according to writer’s theory, they would still want a separate state and many would also want to merge with Porkistan? Some intelligence there.Fact is the intolerance and violence prevalent in Islam.

  • Joseph

    CCNL and Arif,

  • Koshur

    Hey intolerant, insane Hindu bigots,HR team confirms economic blockade, repression in Valley

  • Anonymous

    Peace loving Muslims all over India need to unite and declare their unity with Indians of all religious persuasions. Indian Muslims have lived at peace with their non-Muslim neighbors for centuries. They are Indians in origin and India is their home.Islamic extremism in India is a new trend. It is being imported from outside and it is being fueled by violence done by Hindu extremists.Mahatma Gandhi was assassinaed, not by a Muslim but by an EXTREMIST HINDU.Two well known militant Hindu organizations:Rashtriya Shiva Sena = National Shiva’s ArmyHindutva

  • Anonymous

    Except for Hindu extremists, Hindus are the MOST tolerant of peoples. Whatever may be the limitations of the caste system imposed on the Hindu society, Hindus have lived at peace with ALL religions from time immemorial. Islam was introduced in a violent way in anotherwise non-violent religious society built with Hindu and Buddhist and Jain ideals.Political Islam is a reality and Indian Muslims have been transformed by their living in a Hindu-Buddhist society for many centuries.

  • Anonymous

    KOSHUR, calling all Indians, all 1.1 BILLION of them creeps, doesn’t do the Islam you profess any good at all. It merely adds fuel to the fire that is raging worldwide since 9/11 that Islam is an intolerant and violent religion that is good only for Muslims but dangerous for non-Muslims. It is also feared that Muslims want to rule others whenever they get the smallest chance, and they will not tolerate being ruled by non-Muslims even if Muslims are in the minority.India was ALWAYS a country with Hindu majority. Yet Muslims ruled for three hundred years; India was carved up on religious grounds in 1947. No other religious group in India has ever demanded a separate country because of their religious persuasion, ONLY Muslims.Think about it. If other non-Muslims can live in peace with Hindus, why can’t the Muslims? There are already 140 MILLION Indian Muslims living among Hindus, and at peace. Why can’t Kashmiri Muslims consider themselves Indians first? When the British ruled for 200 years, there was no Pakistan, Bangladesh, or a Kashmiri group of Muslims asking for a separate country. The vast majority of Indians who fought for Indian independence were Hindus. There were also Muslims, but their contribution was diluted when they demanded separate countries based on religion alone.Be Indian first Koshur. Kashmiri Muslims have more to gain by being a part of India than being independent or a part of Pakistan.

  • Anonymous2

    Deb Chatterji:You wrote that all Muslims are not terrorists but most terrorists are Muslims. Then how do you explain that the late Rajiva Gandhi was killed by a Hindu suicide bomber? And how do you explain the numerous suicide bombings committed by Tamil Tigers in Sri Lanka? And how do you explain state sponsored terrorism by the Indian Army in Kashmir which has killed more than 100,000 Muslims in Kashmir? And how do you explain the state sponsored genocide of Muslim in Gujarat in 2002.The only proven incident of bioterrorism the United States has ever experienced, we learned, was a bizarre plot by the Rajneeshee Hindus, to steal a county election in Oregon in 1984. The Rajneeshees, followers of Bhagwan Shree Rajneesh, a self-proclaimed guru exiled from India, had moved into a ranch in rural Wasco County, taken political control of the small nearby town of Antelope, and changed its name to Rajneesh. Next, the Hindus sought to run the whole county by winning the local election in 1984.The amazing story of the Wasco County election scandal was revealed to the conference’s riveted participants by Leslie L. Zaitz, an investigative reporter for The Oregonian, and Dr. John Livengood, an epidemiologist at the Centers for Disease Control. To win the county election, the Rajneeshee Hindus planned to sicken a good portion of the population in the town of The Dalles, where most Wasco County voters live. Their weapon of choice to keep local residents from voting was salmonella bacteria.

  • Anonymous

    DEB, we suspect patriotism of uppercast Hindus. All you guys want to do is grab power by hook or crook. There is no riots in Mayawathi ruled utterpradesh, Lalu ruled Bihar, Communists ruled Kerala or Karunanidhi ruled Tamilnadu. We Muslims Dalits, Adivasis and Backward casts will unite and rule India one day. That will be the end of terrorism and riots. But we will give you guys due respect then

  • TRUTH SEEKER

    CCNL, You are defeated in Iraq and Afghanistan like how you were defeated in Vietnam. Russia has reemerged as super power. China is emerging.Your muslim bashing is not going to help anymore.Better listen Barak Obama and be friendly with muslim countries if you want to save your sinking economy

  • Deb Chatterjee

    Khansaheb:Thanks for the run down on Hindu pantheon. Some of it is quite interesting. I am curious to know the ISBN of the book (“Oh! You Hindu Awake”) by Dr. Kamal Chatterjee, M.A., PH.D (U.S.A), (which is your source). If Prophet Muhammad knew about such wonderful carnal knowledge, he would also consider embracing Hinduism instead of Islam. Can you provide us with the complete reference, please ?

  • KHAN

    Bengali dhoti, Come on repond to Dr Chatterjee’s remarks about hinduism. He is not a muslim, he is not an ISI member, he is not a pakistani nor a kashmiri. You will again say he is a converted muslim. Infact he is not. go and google his name you will come to know about his contribution.

  • Deb Chatterjee

    Khan wrote:”I would, like Joseph, appeal you again come and embrace islam. you will have solace and peace by embracing this great religion.”Can accept death, like my fellow Kashmiri Hindu Pandits who were slaughtered by Muslims, but never Islam.Islam is a barbaric religion.

  • KHAN

    Bengali Dhoti, Just deny any of the allegation of Dr chatterjee about your religion. “Someone has said that Europeans in South Africa dread the advent Islam — Islam that civilized Spain, Islam that took the torch light to Morocco and preached to the world the Gospel of brotherhood. The Europeans of South Africa dread the Advent of Islam. They may claim equality with the white races. They may well dread it, if brotherhood is a sin. If it is equality of colored races then their dread is well founded.” And in “Young India”, he wrote: “I wanted to know the best of one who holds today’s undisputed sway over the hearts of millions of mankind….I became more than convinced that it was not the sword that won a place for Islam in those days in the scheme of life. It was the rigid simplicity, the utter self-effacement of the Prophet, the scrupulous regard for his pledges, his intense devotion to this friends and followers, his intrepidity, his fearlessness, his absolute trust in God and in his own mission. These and not the sword carried everything before them and surmounted every obstacle. When I closed the 2nd volume (of the Prophet’s biography), I was sorry there was not more for me to read of the great life.” Miss. Sarojini Naidu, Poetess, in Ideals of Islam: It was the first religion that preached and practiced democracy; for in the mosque, when the minaret is sounded and the worshipers are gathered together, the democracy of Islam is embodied five times a day when the peasant and the king kneel side by side and proclaim, God alone is great.” The great poetess of India continues, “I have been struck over and over again by this indivisible unity of Islam that makes a man instinctively a brother. When you meet an Egyptian, an Algerian and Indian and a Turk in London, it matters not that Egypt is the motherland of one and India is the motherland of another.” “The personality of Muhammad, it is most difficult to get into the whole truth of it. Only a glimpse of it I can catch. What a dramatic succession of picturesque scenes! There is Muhammad, the Prophet. There is Muhammad, the Warrior; Muhammad, the Businessman; Muhammad, the Statesman; Muhammad, the Orator; Muhammad, the Reformer; Muhammad, the Refuge of Orphans; Muhammad, the Protector of Slaves; Muhammad, the Emancipator of Women; Muhammad, the Judge; Muhammad, the Saint. All in all these magnificent roles, in all these departments of human activities, he is alike a hero.” … Muhammad is the “Perfect model for human life.”

  • Anonymous

    KOSHUR, don’t be fooled, should Kashimiris ever break away from Indian rule, there is no way on earth that they can stay independent, for Pakistan will lay claim to the country with a Muslim majority. Pakistan was created that way in 1947, and there is no reason why they won’t use the same reasoning to annexe an independent Kashmir.Beware of what you pray for separatist Kashmiri Muslims. You have more to lose if your prayer should come true. You are going to need a passport and visa to enter India, a work permit to apply for any job (remember even people from the West are looking for the Indian market) in India. Alternatively you will need to seek jobs in Pakistan.

  • Koshur

    I get sick to the stomach to read such comments about one of the great monothiestic religeon called Islam. This discussion has turned from a political one to a brazenly open communal one. This I am sure was not the aim of the author and we hijacked it in an entirely different direction. Come on guys, let us behave civil and not try to slander each others ethnicity and religeon. I hope good sense prevails on all of you.

  • Anonymous

    KHAN, don’t get all that carried away. MKG and Sarojini Naidu did not read the Quran, Hadiths and Shariah Law. Their opinions are based on what Muslims told them about Islam and Mohammad.Jews in Mecca in Mohammad’s time were not so impressed. They were willing to die than give up their religion.Read the Bible in full if you want to understand the Quran properly. All the persons mentioned in the Quran are mentioned in the Bible too, except in a slightly different way.

  • Khan

    Anonymous urf Bengali Baboa urf Bengali dhoti.Sarojni Naido and MGK have not read quran and Hadees and You have read it and in fact understood it. Well I again invite you to this great religion. Again pray to almighty that he shows you a right path, to differentiate between just and injust, right and wrong. Truth and falsehood.

  • Deb Chatterjee

    Khan fulminated:”Your Temples in south India have small phaluses of stone made.”Hmmmm……Is that all you got ?The black stone at Ka’aba (Makkah) is a “shiva lingam” (Lord Shiva’s phallus) too ! Prophet Muhammad kissed that stone understanding that it was indeed a “shivalingam”.

  • Joseph

    Hey deb,

  • Joseph

    Hey deb,

  • Anonymous2

    Deb Chatterji:Did you see the following headlines right on the page in WP where you click to get Religion segment?Here it is:Suspected Hindu hard-liners set fire to orphanageIsn’t this a brazen act of terrorism? Killing innocent children?

  • Anonymous

    Deb Chatterjee:When was India ever a Hindu state? Buddhism and Jainism are two and a half THOUSAND years old and India has been home to Christianity for two thousand years, among other religions.The Hindu-only India is the myth created by Hindu extremists. Hinduism is a con-federation of religions. It has never been a single religious philosophy.The United Nations Declaration of Universal Human Rights guarantees religious freedom, which includes freedom to change religions. How could Buddhism, Jainism and Sikhism have come into existence if it was forbidden to leave Hinduism. It is pretty atrocious for high caste Hindus, who enjoy all the benefits of the Hindu caste system to forbid low caste Hindus from converting to another religion which would free them from the burden of the caste system. Christian missionaries find themselves fighting a running battle with high caste Hindus when they help low caste/outcaste Hindus.What is more basic than the right to worship God in anyway one chooses? Hindus worship God under so many different names, why should it matter to them if God is worshipped under a different name under a different religion?

  • Anonymous

    The demand of high caste Hindus (Hindu extremists tend to belong to high castes) that low caste Hindus should not convert to any other religion that would free them from the burden of the caste system, is a form of social oppression that Hinduism with its caste system introduced into the Hindu Indian society at least four thousand years ago.It was precisely one of the reasons, Buddha, Mahavira and Guru Nanak, all non-Brahmins of Hindu origin founded other religions.

  • Deb Chatterjee

    Anonymous wrote:”It is pretty atrocious for high caste Hindus, who enjoy all the benefits of the Hindu caste system to forbid low caste Hindus from converting to another religion which would free them from the burden of the caste system. Christian missionaries find themselves fighting a running battle with high caste Hindus when they help low caste/outcaste Hindus.”This is pure baloney. Quota for SC/ST has increased to such an extent that the caste Hindus are left out of all opportunity. How long can the bull about caste keep economically deprived people paralyzed ? The SC/ST quota is purely based on casteist perversions. High caste Hindus have a right to be concerned that they will eventually lose out to the SC/ST quota holders. It is indeed happening. However now the Govt. has also extended the laws to private firms & BPOs who have soundly rejected the strictures, stating that they would move operations elsewhere. India was always a Hindu/Buddhist ruled country and it is speculated by Holger Kersten in his sensational JESUS LIVED IN INDIA, that indeed Christ came to India and settled in Kashmir and learnt a lot about Buddhist and Hindu philosophies. However, my point with India becoming a Hindu state was primarily aimed at Islamic (mis)rule for 1000+ years. Becoming a Hindu state would eliminate the invoking of Shariah laws that Muslims follow. Also if India became Hindu, I just think that something with minorities like Buddhists, Jains, Sikhs, Christians, Aga Khan Ismailis, Bahais have to be considered.Finally, I have a question for you: how do you define a Hindu religion in the sense you can define an Abrahamic religion (Judaism, Christianity and Islam) ? I’ll leave the remainder of the debate of Kashmir secession to other bloggers, having made my (atrocious) point.

  • Deb Chatterjee

    Khan wrote:”Prophet Mohammad Stands Number one.”Number one in phallus (lingam) stone kisser, yes. He also drank and recommended camel urine for getting rid of illnesses.Prof. Samuel Huntington (Harvard University) wrote scathing commentaries on Islam and Clash of Civilizations. Wanna know what he wrote ?Ibn Warraq has most vicious comments on Islam in his book WHY AM I NOT A MUSLIM ? He opines that Muhammad was an impostor and crook. Warraq thinks Muhammad invented Islam to suit his own political and murderous agenda of global domination. He also thinks, based on a few distinct sources, that Muhammad was indeed possessed by devil (Iblees). Robert Spencer’s biography (taken from Ibn Ishaq’s earliest biographies of Prophet Muhammad makes it clear that Muhammad was a war-mongering, womanizer – attributes that CCNL has also confirmed in his blogs on this thread.Why should anyone convert to a barbaric religion called Islam ? It seems that you are trying to drag others into your own pitiful state – that being a Muslim.I suggest that you reject Islam and get a life !

  • ender

    Christians in India would not have a problem if they did not insist on proselytizing. Hindu and Jain Indians have hundreds of years of experience with evengelical Muslims proselytizing with a sword in their hand. Hindus never proselytize and don’t really consider it your right to do it to them. If they become dissatified with their religion they’ll come to you, or the Buddha.

  • Asim, San Antonio

    Kashmir is no different than Palestine:both are occupied respectively by brute Indian miliatry force and jewish brutal military force backed by nuclear arsenals.Thr issue is stolen or occupied land:and not Muslim vs Hindu or Arab/Muslim vs jew-once the jews go back where they come from and the ethnically cleanesed Palestinians who now number over six million are allowed to return to PAlestine from their exile by the jews-all will be peaecful.Similarily once the occupying Indian army leaves and a UN sponsered right of self-determination is enforced them peace will also prevail in Kashmir.It is all about stolen or occupied land in PAlestine and KAshmir and not about people hating each other.

  • Michael

    This is disgusting. How can people drink cows urine. Deb or whatever do you worship SEX organs. Is that true. Please enlighten us.

  • Deb Chatterjee

    Asim,You just make absurd statements only to show the shallowness of your knowledge on Kashmir. Just as every Pakistani (particularly when they meet a Hindu Indian) says s/he is from Azad Kashmir and sounds foolish so does your view.Let’s see:1. Exactly contrary to what you have written, Kashmir IS indeed Hindu vs. Muslim (Secularism vs. Islam). That’s what Hurriyat hardliner Syed Geelani states why he is calling for Azadi of Kashmir. In conclusion he says that however Azad Kashmir is impossible; so he wants Kashmir liberated and merged with Pakistan (Islamic Republic). 2. Kashmir was not stolen by India. Its accession was legal; Maharaja Hari Singh signed the instrument of accession with India when Paki troops were attacking Srinagar. It was legal but a crafty move that Nehru played to get Kashmir. Did Raja go against the wishes of the majority of his people (Muslims) ? Yes. Did he do anything illegal ? NO. 3. If Hindus and Jews have to vacate lands which have been occupied by Hindus and Jews, then USA has to vacate what we know as America. That’s not possible. The European settlers came here, decimated the local Indian population, and then ruled. Texas was stolen from Mexico. Will Texas be ever handed back to Mexico by USA ? No. Going by such and other similar precedences I do not see how Kashmir can be handed back. In the extreme case, India needs to launch an all out full-scale war against Pakistan of graphic dimensions to settle this score that’s been a pain on India’s behind for 60 years. India has been terrorized by Muslim fundies from Pakistan just because of this. 4. Palestine belongs to Jewish people. If you want the “Muslim lands” to be surrendred by Jewish people, then there must be reciprocity. I know from the Quran that, at the end, Muhammad ordered all Jews out of Arabia. The Quran documents in various surahs that Jews lived in Yathrib till Muhammad drove them out of their ancestral lands or had them killed. Noone remained who was a non-Muslim. If today Palestine will be given back, why Mecca will not be handed back to Israel ? Makes sense ?

  • khan

    Hinduism Exposed by Dr. Robert A. MoreyIntroductionHinduism is one of the oldest pre-Christian pagan religions still viable in the world today. While we think of it as the faith of Mother India, it actually traces it origins to a mysterious tribe of Europeans called the Aryans who invaded and conquered Northern India from 1500 BC to 500 BC. The light-skinned Brahmins of Northern India claim to be their physical and spiritual descendants. The Aryans The Aryans brought with them their sacred writings called the Vedas. They were originally fire worshippers and this is why they believed in cremation instead of burying their dead. They also invented the theory of soul-transmigration in which at death you do not go to heaven or to hell but you are reborn into another body on earth. This next body could be animal, vegetable or human depending on whether you were good or bad. Your past behavior catches up with you in your present life due to the law of karma.You could in your next reincarnation end up a clam, a carrot, a bush or a human being. The highest rebirth you could wish for was to be born as one of the white-skinned Brahmins who by virtue of their color were considered the “higher” class. The Ugly Reality of Racism The inherent racism of historic Hinduism is thus blatant. You were judged by the color of your skin, not the content of your character, skills or talents. The darker your skin, the lower your caste and rank in Hindu society. The whiter your skin, the higher your caste and rank. The Brahmins prided themselves on their white skin while despising the darker skinned untouchables who were often viewed and treated as sub-humans.This explains why Hindu gurus are more than willing to travel to the West to convert rich white Europeans to Hinduism BUT never travel to black Africa to make converts. The truth is, they don’t want black people whose skin color is an indication of bad karma. As long as they can sucker rich white people into giving them money (“Money is evil. So give it all to me.”) why bother with darker skinned people?This can be documented by the statements of many of the gurus who have reaped riches in the West. When one guru was asked on TV what he was doing to help the poor, he responded, “Let the Christians take care of them. I am here to help the rich.” The Caste System The terrible caste system was invented in order to protect the white Brahmins from polluting their sacred whiteness with black blood. You had to marry and to labor in the caste into which you were born. The lines were clearly drawn and on one was allowed to move from one caste to another by marriage or trade.The mechanism of the caste system is tied to the Hindu theory of soul-transmigration in which your rebirth determines your caste. Your rebirth was predetermined by your karma. Your karma was in turn was determined by how you lived in your past life. For example, if you were born with a dark skin to untouchable parents, your life of misery and poverty is your punishment for being evil in your previous life. In other words, you are getting what you deserved.The poor, the sick, the disabled, the dark-skinned, etc. are what they are because of their own fault. The deserve their suffering because they did something bad in a previous life and their karma has caught up with them. We should not interfere with their suffering because if we do, we will doom them to experience it in the next life. Thus the kindest thing to do is to let them alone so they get their suffering over and hopefully have a better rebirth the next time around.On the other hand, if you were born with white skin to Brahmin parents, your life of wealth and pleasure is your reward for good deeds done in your previous life. You deserve to be rich and white. You earned it. Thus you have no moral obligation to help those less fortunate them you.The social inequities of Hinduism ultimately led millions of lower caste Indians to abandon Hinduism for Buddhism, Islam, Sikhism or Christianity because those religions did not lock them into a rigid caste system. Social and financial mobility required a change of religion. Of course, if you were a rich white Brahmin, why would you convert to a religion which would strip you of your social status and wealth? Social Evils Being originally fire worshippers, Hinduism developed the grisly practice of burning a widow alive on the funeral pyre of her husband (suttee). If she did not willing jump into the fire, she was often thrown into it by the mob gathered to watch her burn to death.Child sacrifices to animal gods such as sacred crocodiles were common until this Hindu practice was criminalized by the British. The ritual murder and burial of travelers by the Kali cult (the thugees) is another example of Hinduism’s inherently demonic nature and inspiration.Other immoral practices of Hinduism included using children as sex slaves in Hindu temples. They not only served the sexual perversions of the priests and gurus but were used as prostitutes to bring in money. The poorest of the poor who often could not afford to keep a new child, left the baby in a temple assuming that the child would have a better life with the priests than with its parents. They doomed their child to a life of pain and misery.The tourist who travels to India’s many temples is often shocked by wall art that depicts sodomy, child sex, orgies and bestiality of the grossest kind. Yet, all this is part of what lies at the core of Hinduism.The same shock is received when tourists see Hindus drinking urine from animals and humans and smearing dung in their hair and on their body. The smell that emanates from the gurus, monks and holy men of Hinduism is enough to warn us that Hinduism is rotten to the core. .Why are we beginning our discussion of Hinduism with such ugly topics as racism, the caste system, burning of widows, ritual child abuse and gross immorality? To see the true nature of Hinduism we must study what it produces in those societies where it is the dominant religion. Thus a mere abstract philosophic presentation of Hinduism in the classroom will give a false view of it. Hinduism is far more than a list of abstract dogmas. It is actually a social program that seeks to organize a culture according to Hindu concepts of soul-transmigration, karma, race and caste. The Philosophic Failures of Hinduism 1. Hinduism denies the existence of the infinite/personal triune God of the Bible who exists independent of and apart from the universe which He created out of nothing. It is atheistic in this sense.2. Hinduism never solved the problem of the One and Many or the infinite/personal dichotomy.3. Those Hindus who emphasize the One over the Many, teach Monism (All is One) and pantheism (All is God), erasing any distinction between Creator and creation. “God” is an impersonal infinite force or power which manifest itself as the universe around us. The “things” we see around us do not really exist per se. They are only illusions of the One. This is what the high caste Hindus teach the Westerners who come to India in search of “enlightenment.”4. The vast majority of Hindus do not follow the Brahmin doctrine of monism. Instead of emphasizing the One over the Many, they emphasize the Many over the One and practice the most vile forms of polytheism imaginable in which they worship millions of gods and goddesses. It is said that the Hindus worship more gods and goddesses than the total number of Hindus who exist today. They worship snakes, monkeys, elephants, crocodiles, cats, insects and other absurdities.5. As a world view, Hinduism fails to answer crucial questions:a. Why does the Universe exist as opposed to not existing? Since it cannot answer this question, Hinduism simply denies the existence of the world around us. It is an illusion (maya) or dream.b. Is the universe eternal or did it have a beginning? Hinduism has always taught that the universe is eternal. But this has been successfully refuted by modern science. This also exposes an inherent contradiction within Hinduism. If the universe does not exist but is illusionary in nature, how then is it eternal? How can Hinduism speak of the universe going through eternal cycles if the universe does not exist?c. Why does the Universe exist in such a form that predictability and science are possible? By denying the existence of the world around it, Hinduism did not develop science and cannot exist why it works.d. What is evil? Once again, since Hinduism could not answer this question, it simply denied that evil existed.e. Why does evil exist? Hinduism cannot answer this question.f. What is man? Hinduism denies that we actually exist.g. How can we explain the uniqueness of man? Hinduism cannot explain why man is distinct from the world around him.h. Why do we do evil? Hinduism cannot answer this question.i. What is sin? Because it does not have a concept of a personal/infinite Creator, Hinduism has no concept of “sin” per se.j. How do we obtain forgiveness for our sins? There is no forgiveness in Hinduism. You will have to suffer in the next life for the evil you do in this present life. This answer exposes an inescapable contradiction within Hindu philosophy. If the universe, evil, and man do not actually exist but are only illusions (Maya), then on what grounds does karma exist? If it does not actually exist either, then on what grounds does reincarnation happen?k. On what basis can we explain man’s desire for meaning, significance, justice, morals, truth and beauty? Hinduism has no answer to these questions.l. How can we provide a sufficient basis for meaning, significance, justice, morals, truth and beauty? Hinduism cannot provide a philosophic basis for any of these things. Conclusion Hinduism cannot answer the essential philosophic questions that always arise wherever and whenever the human intellect matures. It has been weighed in the scales of truth and have been found lacking.Even more importantly, Hinduism has no concept of a Creator God, the Creation, the Fall of man into sin and guilt, a Day of Judgment, atonement or forgiveness, or a Savior who redeems us from our sins by the sacrifice of Himself in our place.It did not produce democracy, science or equality among different races and racks of mankind. Instead it produced great social evils which afflict the Indian people to this day. As a religion and a philosophy, Hinduism is a complete failure and cannot provide a basis for meaning, significance, justice, morals, truth

  • Anonymous

    RSS, Zionists and White racists are now united against rest of the world. Since each one of them have their own agenda this axis of evil will not last. All three believes in cold blooded murder of innocent people. Hope Democrats will win next election and save the world from catastrophy

  • KHAN

    bENGALI DHOTI,

  • Anonymous

    ender:Christians in India would not have a problem if they did not insist on proselytizing. Hindu and Jain Indians have hundreds of years of experience with evengelical Muslims proselytizing with a sword in their hand. Hindus never proselytize and don’t really consider it your right to do it to them. If they become dissatified with their religion they’ll come to you, or the Buddha.August 27, 2008 1:40 PM—————————Hindus like Jews do not have a proselytizing element to their faith.One is born a Hindu or Jew. In Hinduism, one is also born into a caste and subcaste, which one cannot change.If Jews and Hindus do not go about trying to convert anyone, they are merely acting in accordance with their faith tradition.Buddha, if you were to read the history ofBuddhism spread to all of East Asia precisely because Buddhists went out to preach and convert.Jains and Sikhs on the other hand do not have a strong proselytizing element. Hence most Jains are to be found only in certain areas of North India where Mahavira lived, and Sikhs are mostly Punjabis.Christianity has a very strong proselytizing element. It is about sharing the Good News of Jesus with all the world and doing good in His name. Jesus spent only three years walking up and down Israel of His time preaching and coverting the Jews. He worked miracles and showed great compassion to the poor and needy and called sinners to repentance. After His resurrection, He COMMANDED His disciples to go out into the world, preach the good news and baptize people in the name of the Father, Son and the Holy Spirit. That is what His disciples did since the day of the Pentecost and that is what Christians have done for the past two thousand years: preaching the good news of Jesus and doing good works in His name.Islam is reformed Arab paganism (Allah, with three daughters, is the name of an Arab pagan God who was worshipped in Mecca long before the birth of Islam) with elements of Jewish Law and beliefs from Christianity. Most of the religion in the Quran can be traced to the Bible although it has been modified and elements of Arab paganism has been added.But it was established as a political religion and spread as such.The history of Islam in India was one of peaceful proselytization in the South when Mohammad lived in Mecca (even before he fled to Medina), and one of violence by invading conquerers in the North, later.——————————Only social rules seem to have been set which communities enforce and police.———————————-If Hinduism makes it a rule forbidding conversion to other religions, there are many questions to be asked:What kind of Hinduism is being referred to, after all Hinduism is a con-federation of religions.Is the law against conversion meant to retain the superiority of the Brahmin/upper caste?How come Buddha, Mahavir and Guru Nanak found other religions and have Hindu converts as followers?India has always had many religions, has given refuge to the religiously persecuted – Jews, Parsis etc, and more recently Buddhists from Tibet.It is against the universal nature of Hinduism to be religiously intolerant. Is the law similar to apostacy law in Islam where leaving the religion is punished with death?On what grounds does secular India violate the principles of the United Nations Universal Declaration of Human Rights which considers the right to practice a religion must go hand in hand with the right to change religions?———————-The rising trend of intolerance is fueled by militant Hindu extremists (mostly belonging to the higher castes). They feel threatened by conversions to religions which have no caste system.

  • Aamir

    What happened to the original discussion of Kashmir not being a Hindu-Muslim issue. It started very well till Mr. Chatterjee started personal attcks against Islam. Since then it has become completely insane. It does no good to anybody to expose each others religeon. What my faith tells me (and that is incidently Islam) to respect other faiths. Somebody started it and look it has been boomeranging since then. We all have same roots and basically were brothers only few decades ago. People can have differences but when you start using abusive language against each others’ prophets, then there remains no difference between us and people in India or Pakistan who are intolerant not only to each others’ faith but even hate the site of each other. We are all educated and are expected to have some level of decency. Once again I reiterate that the basic discussion was about Kashmir and not about Hinduism or Islam. To me all religeons have purpose and it is by chance that Mr. Chatterjee was born in a Hindu family and Mr. Khan in a Muslim Family. It could have been otherwise and both would be protecting their faith like they try to do now. Calling names to Mohammed, or for that matter to other revered Hindu Gods does no good to all of us but instead perpetuates that seed of hatred. We are young and we are on a forum which was basically created not for this kind of uncivil dialogue. We should be also thankful that we can express ourselves in this great country. Miss Hafsa has her own opinion as any other Kashmiri and so does Mr. Chatterjee. Let us call it a day and please try not to slander each other. There are lot of younger readers who’s minds have not been maligned yet like some of ours. Let us give love and tolerance a chance. I am a proud Kashmiri and still believe that something mutual can be achieved with India if sincerity is displayed on both sides.

  • Anonymous

    Deb Chatterjee’s position as a Hindu Brahmin from Kolkotta (Calcutta), who attended a Catholic school and lives in the United States, a country with Christian majority, is unique.He is seen to be encouraging and fueling religious intolerance in India with the India-for-Hindus only extremist view. Instead of being an agent of peace, he preaches intolerance, even against Christians in India, although he benefited from a Catholic education and lives in a Christian country. Is it religious hypocrisy or it is merely politics to keep Brahmin power for his people in India?

  • Deb Chatterjee

    Aamir wrote:”It started very well till Mr. Chatterjee started personal attcks against Islam. Since then it has become completely insane.”Well, as a Kashmiri Muslim you demonstrate some form of incapacity to understand my position. Being critical of a doctrine (Islam) is nothing wrong. We don’t have to pleasant to each other’s doctrines. What is revered to you is barbaric to me and voce versa. I have not at all attempted to express emotional distress at Khan’s posts. Its unpleasant, but he has the right to do so. Though I do not see how worship of sex organs (lingam and yoni) has anything to do with the secession of Kashmir from India. If an antiquated religious ritual is important, then I think debating the issue is incorrect.

  • Anonymous Christian

    Yek,

  • Joseph

    Khan Sahib

  • Chris

    Jesus Christ, what a crap. Sex organs being worshiped. YUKKKKKKKK!!!!!!!

  • Deb Chatterjee

    I missed this piece of gem from Aamir’s post. The person wrote:”What my faith tells me (and that is incidently Islam) to respect other faiths.”Well, I cannot resist quoting from the Quran to demonstrate my deep suspicions about how much “respect” Islam teaches its followers about other faiths:YUSUFALI: “If anyone desires a religion other than Islam (submission to Allah), never will it be accepted of him; and in the Hereafter He will be in the ranks of those who have lost (All spiritual good).” [Quran (003:085)].Thus, one is simply unsure what kind of respect Islam has for other religions if it simply rejects any other paths of faith. I am not expceting any convincing answer other than the pedestrian cliche “taken out of context”.

  • Deb Chatterjee

    Islam is barbaric religion and other cultures/religions around the world are truly becoming more violent by trying to catch up with Islam. The militant brand of Hinduism, which was truly non-existent, is a phenomenon from 1980s when Jana Sangh (predecessor of BJP) came to power in 1977 thru what is know as Morarji Desai’s Janata Party. Upon ascension to power the Jana Sangh elements in Janata Party realized that they needed to exist and hence tried to politicalize the Hindus by appealing to Hindutva. The argument was that if in a (formally) secular country Muslims can get away by doing anything, like murdering, marrying endless number of times, taking umbrage under their religion Islam, and using religion to further the separatist mentality, why would Hindus be left behind ? It was a nasty thought: but it did work. I believe that Shri Ashok Singhal-ji stated that if all else being equal, what is preventing a Hindu for asserting his/her Hinduness as Hindus are in majority in India ? His foreign travels showed that everywhere the majority has a voice. Not so in India. Singhal successfuly argued that Hindu culture and religion are different. Singhal very persuasively appealed to the Muslim problem of secessionism that he rightly claimed is based on the Shariah. Singhal showed that democracies like India get weakened if a minority starts to get more powers than the majority. The Kashmir problem and the then Shah Bano case (where Congress Govt. overturned a Supreme Court ruling against polygamy) were tell-tale incidents that Singhal exploited. However Singhal was mostly right. Whereever Muslims have majority abuse of human rights has been a hallmark. The state of minorities in Bangladesh is quite an eye-opener. The link is at To retaliate Hindu organizations in India are paying back minorities in the same coin. However I contend that the blame goes to Islam. It is an intolerant and barbaric religion. All other cultures and religions in its proximity become equally fundamentalist and intolerant.So, what’s new ?

  • Khan

    Oh My Goodness, Bengali Dhoti has again resorted to personal attacks. He isfrustrated and needs help. So you agree hindus do worship sex organs atleast you have devoloped some courage to accept it. It is because we have been showing you the right path and truth. And as somebody said in the end truth prevails. I think we need to spend some more time with you and I hope you will definitely embrase Islam the greatest monotheistic religion. By providing a web address of some creepy hindu organisation what are you trying to prove. Obiviously these phallic worshipers will not talk good about Islam. I have provided so much of evidence, that Hinduism doesn’t even exist.

  • Deb Chatterjee

    Khan,Pedophilia (sex with minors) is a bestial act (in view of modern ethics). Prophet Muhammad has engaged in sex with Ayesha when the little girl was 9 years old and he was 53 years old. (Opinions vary, but the majority have agreed on the age of Ayesha when Prophet has sexual intercourse with her.) I do not hold anything against Prophet Muhammad for this. It’s an incident that happened 1400 years ago. How can we judge an incident that happened 1400 years ago based on the attitudes of the 21st century ? That’s unfair, and I give Prophet a benefit of doubt. But, if you have sex with a minor you shall be incarcerated and live in jail forever. If I am sitting in the jury on your trial I’d probably recommend death-penalty because of having sex with minors. It is same as raping a minor. That’s a big no no in my worldview/ethics. Pedophiles have no place in a civilized society as ours. But, I won’t have the same hatred for the same incident occurring 1400 years ago. Get the drift ?? So, your citing of the worship of sex organs in the animist/pagan Hindu rituals don’t bother me (or other Hindus). You come across as, unfortunately, as an unintelligent, confused person unable to discern between issues. Thus you have no credibility, and is just another distracting irritant on this blog.

  • ender

    Let’s not forget the Sikhs, with the most recent claim to governance of Kashmir other than the British, whom have been pretty much force out of the region by outrageous human rights violations.India was a Hindu nation that was conquered by Muslims then retaken by Hindus many hundreds of years ago. Using standard Islamic practice, Islam used its period of armed conquest to import millions of Muslims and attempt to take over a nation by sheer numbers. Since Muslims traditionally insist on Islamic states with a state gov’t and don’t play well with others, India was kind enough in ’47 to follow a UN recommendation and voluntarily give up Pakistan for an Islamic state.Sikhs ruled Kashmir at the time. Pakistani Islamicist have been infiltrating and replacing the Hindu and Sikh population for 50+ years and are using their normal terrorist tactics to take more of India. If the Indian police or military fight back, they are blamed for human rights violations, while Muslims force Islamic law on the entire area.India should not give up another inch to Muslim invaders. They should learn to live in a Secular society or move.

  • Anonymous

    To the shame of Hinduism as the religion of universal tolerance and acceptance it must be said that Hindu militants have been targeting Christian missionaries working for the socially remote and downtrodden low caste Hindus in various parts of the North, Madhya Pradesh, Bihar, etc.The violence is fueled by high caste Hindus acting in the background in the name of preserving Hindu India.

  • Deb Chatterjee

    Sikhs have indeed borne the bestiality of the barbarian Mughal rulers. Guru Arjan Dev was burnt alive at the command of Aurangzeb, for his refusal to convert to Islam. The same intolerance is seen today in Kashmir. Sikhs have been butchered in the hands of Muslims in times of Partition in 1947. This small community is mostly of gallant, fun-loving people.ISLAM IS A BARBARIC RELIGION.

  • Khan

    Deboo does it hurt when the truth prevails. I can see desparation in you tone. Come to Islam leave this creepy religion. The following is from Michael Hart’s book and lists Prophet Muhammad as the most influential man in History. A Citadel Press Book, published by Carol Publishing Group Prophet Muhammad Prophet Mohammad Stands Number one.None of your creepy Gods is even mentioned anywhere.

  • Khan

    Bengali DhotiThis what people have to say about my Prophet(PBUH)

  • Steve

    Holly crap what the hell. Is this true that hindis worship P!!!!! Yukkkkk

  • George

    Yukii,

  • Concerned The Christian Now Liberated

    Anon Christian,Repetition is a major element of education. Unfortunately some “thumpers” constantly repeat the myths of the NT, OT, Koran and the Book of Mormon/Moroni which requires a counter comment with reality and history. Deal with it and learn something while doing so!!!!!

  • ahmed

    hi hafsa, i appreciate your article about valley and the heading its not hindusim vs muslim is apt.we all know all is not well in kashmir. its actually not muslim vs hindu. kashmir is the epitome of harmony. be it known to all. kashmiri`s are the most hospitable people around.

  • ender

    Ender’s Rant..We’ve seemed to have kicked this dead horse long enough, while avoiding the real issue.Let’s start with Kosovo/Yugoslavia. Against the wishes of NATO and most of the Western World, Clinton almost unilaterally used US troops to STOP GENOCIDE OF MUSLIMS BY CHRISTIANS.I’ve yet to hear the Islamic world singing his praises for this step, but whatever.What Clinton did, was intervene in a local cultural war that has been ongoing for more than 500 years. The area has gone back and forth between the rule of Catholics, Greek Orthodox, and Muslims and each time the leadership has changed, atrocities and genocide were committed in retaliation for the oppression suffered under the previous ruler.Our Moron in Chief, could not understand what his father did, that Sunnis in Iraq will fight to the death rather than live under Shia rule, because they know the reprisals for 50 yrs of repression under Saddam is due them by the Shias. They know it. They would do the same thing. Muslims are killing Muslims at a higher rate than we managed, because we really did expect them all ‘to just get along’ after we took out their dictator.More than 6 million Christian and Animist Africans have been exterminated by Muslims in Africa. The Islamic world considers them immoral and primitive, and says not one word to make it end.Now, the Crux:The Islamic world considers the west immoral, secular and pampered.The Western World considers the Islamic world primitive, intolerant and violent.We are engaged in a new phase of the culture wars that began with Muhammed’s declaration that it was the duty of each Muslim to carry the torch of Islam to all of the world. He recognized the zealous and racist nature of the early Catholicism, and sought to protect his own culture and tribe by spreading a religion that put a premium on Arabic values, and even the Arabic language.Meanwhile, the Catholics, French, Italian and Greek/Eastern, fought over control of the seat of the religion, the Papisty, because that granted a boost to the survival chances of their respective cultures.And HERE WE ARE FOLKS! 1500 YEARS LATER! ENGAGED IN THE SAME CULUTRE WARS!I’m an equal opportunity cultural bigot myself. I think all religions are created by men to control men. I am perfectly willing to fight to the death, murder, maim and terrorize in order to make sure that I and my progeny can live in a SECULAR nation where not religion or religiously directed moralities are forced upon us.I believe that anything good that has come out of any Abrahamic religion has been as a result of Secular enlightenment overcoming the true base and tribal natures of the religions.Islam has a habit of making any state where it gains a majority adopt Islamic law and custom.I’m here to tell you that as long as the US has technological superiority, I will support using it to the stop the spread of Islamic control into new areas. I will do everything in my power to fight the intrusion of any religion, whether Christian or Islamic, into the governance of the Secular Nation of the United States.I have only to look at the current world, where some of the worlds richest nations, such as Saudi Arabia, UAE, Kuwait and Oman, to see wealthy and pampered youth, wasting all their energy on hate, for Israel and disdain for the modernization that the secular, western world offers. The peoples of the repressive nation of Iran at least seek secular education and realize that without the scientific and technological advancements the west has made available in the last hundred years, the deserts they inhabit could not support the populations they do.I consider Islam a failed culture. The same goes for Christianity, but that it has evolved into Christianity ‘light’, and is more a religion of Capitalism than Abraham.I have met and spoken to a large number of Muslims whom have left Islamic nations that practice Sharia law, and in private at least, they admit that Islam as practiced in the Middle East, is Fundamentalist, and used by rulers to maintain and iron fisted control over the populace.I revile the US support of the Terrorist State of Israel. But, when al Queada, the Taliban and Osama attacked us on US soil, they renewed an ancient culture war that they cannot win. Or president should have wiped the Taliban off the face of the planet in Afghanistan, put pressure on Saudi to stop the funding for them. We should have made fresh new friends with their enemy, Saddam, and made sure he was strong enough to stand up against the Taliban in Saudi Arabia in case they gain a stronger hand.You claim that Islam is tolerant and peaceful. Well, I would love to see that. In the meantime, any Islamic mullah that preaches violent jihad should be immediately deported to the middle of the Pacific Ocean, along with any ignorant followers that have returned for more than one dose of his vitriol.Any nation that support the Taliban, or any other fundamentalist group should be given a chance to repent, as in put them all in jail and stop all gov’t support, or face suspension of trade and concessions with the promise of military intervention if necessary to protect our interest.We should stop all monetary and political support for Israel. They have more than 300 nuclear war heads and don’t need our help.The only way to avoid the coming debacle of an all out cultural war between east and west is the Modernization and Secularization of Islam.Otherwise, we will see if your religious faith can survive without your icons when Mecca is a glass parking lot that will glow in the dark for 10,000 years, and Tehran gives of a brilliant glow at midnight.

  • Dolivaw

    Khan: Where Did Zero Come From? 13 Eastern philosophy embraced the ideas feared by the Greeks. Because the concept of the Infinite and the Void were so threatening to Greek beliefs about the nature of reality and the existence of God, the Greeks were unable to grapple with the idea of a number which contains both. Hinduism, in contrast, was comfortable with duality. The gods of Creation and Destruction were complementary elements of the Hindu universe. They believed that the ultimate goal of the human soul was to reunite with the One or infinite and to let go of individuality and fall into the void. The numeral zero did not challenge Hindu world view and so was easily accepted. Far from remaining a simple placeholder, zero was reincarnated in India as a number. In addition, Indian mathematicians were largely interested in numbers stripped of geometric rules. This allowed them to include negative numbers in their calculations and to give zero its place on the number line. 14 As Rome fell the Islamic world ascended. The Muslims learned from and in conquest. They established a translation bureau in the House of Wisdom in Baghdad that focused primarily on the works of the Greek mathematicians. Their knowledge of the mathematics of India resulted in their adoption of the Hindu numbering system. The Al-jabr written by Muslim scholar Al-Khwarizmi (on linear and quadratic equations) and Omar Khayyam’s treatise on algebra (on cubic equations) came from this fertilization of ideas. The dissemination of algorithms (tricks and devices for multiplying and dividing Hindu numerals) also helped spread the Hindu system through the Arab world. Zero traveled along. — from To infinity and beyond: The history of zero by Barbara Nolan Thought you might want to know the seminal contribution of Hindu thought to civilization. And now back to our regular programming ….

  • Roy

    religious riots = oxymormonreligion is satan’s tool and the root of all evil

  • Deb Chatterjee

    Quack followers of Islam have started to recycle the NYT articles from 2002 by Celia Dugger. Of course this is the blogsite of Eboo Patel, a Muslim of Indian extractions, and who has lamented over Gujarat riots. Never mind that nothing in the past 6 years has been proven against Narendra Modi in a court of law, and regardless of the Muslim hysteria, one often forgets the Akshardham shooting on innocent Hindu devotees by Muslim criminal terrorists, and prior to that the burning of the Sabarmati express. The Muslim vote bank in India makes the pseudosecularists dance wild. So, it is always that the majority (Hindus) who have to bow before the Muslim pathos. No tears are shed for the slaughter of the Kashmiri Hindu pandits by the pseudosecular politicians of India. (I don’t know if Eboo Patel will allow this post to appear. But, let’s see.)

  • Anonymous

    The misinformation that Arabs invented all mathematics and gave it to Europeans has been propagated over and over again.The truth is mathematics was far advanced in India many centuries before the birth of Islam.Since Hindus neither conquered lands nor spread their faith and knowledge to other countries, it remained in India. When Muslims conquered India, with the political conquest that went with spread of Islam, they gained access to the knowledge of Hindus in India. It was carried back to Arabia, and in a typical Islamic style, everything they conquered became Islamic, so did Indian mathematics.Zero was invented by Indian Hindus, so was advanced mathematics and algebra. Arabs only created the numerals to represent the mathematics that was available in India, represented with Indian numerals which was considerably more complex.

  • Anonymous

    The problem with Hindu extremists is that they are supposedly avenging the violence done by Muslims three or four centuries ago.Why should innocent Gujrathi Muslims have to be punished for Hindus killed many decades ago in Kashmir?

  • Anonymous Christian

    Mr. Concerned Christian.

  • Anonymous

    How much better it would be if Deb Chatterjee used his influence and his life experience in the United States to promote religious harmony in India, doing real honor to Hinduism, instead of promoting intolerance in his homeland while enjoying religious freedom in the US, a country with Christian majority.Is intolerance what the United States taught Deb Chatterjee, the Hindu?

  • ender

    Except when under Muslim rule, Indai never invaded any other nation in war of aggression to seize their resources or spread Hindusim.(Sri Lanka may be an exception, but it was traditionally part of India)Muslims have attempted to overthrow the gov’t of every nation they have ever established a population in, and have spread Islam on the point of a sword since inception. Like Abraham, Mohammed was first and formost a tribal warlord.I think all religion should be nonobtrusive, nonevangelican and nonpolitical by law everywhere, but, I know that I have nothing to fear from a Hindu nation.The same is not and has never been true of any nation where any of the Cults of Abraham are predominate.

  • George

    Hey you indian crap whatever your name is. You are blaming every religion for attrocities against hindus. If you are so intolerant to christians why the hell you are here. You should get out of this country along with your ugly, fat, hairy and stinking females.

  • Koshur

    I have been reading Bengali Dhoti which incidently still must have the crap of many days on it (as hindus donot clean their rear end after they go for #2 and are full of BO. I would also agree with another blogger who has said that how smelly and hairy their women are, as it is not mandatory for them to take shower after they have been scr……). I can swear by Almighty Allah that Dhoti is a Kashmiri Batta (pundit). You coward hindu, you should identify yourself or get back to your creepy , filthy land called land of snake charmers, to spread this hatred. You have no material to support your arguments and are ranting the same fricking words everytime you post a blog. You have not answered any of the allegations Mr. Khan and others have levelled against your filthy faith.There are no pundits left in the world. They have lost their identity for ever and thank God for that. If anybody ever is going to help them to reclaim their identity, it will not be BJP, RSS or sick people like you, it will only those Kashmiri Muslims, but they should never get this filth back to our sacred land.So please stop spreading this hatred and get back to your job, whatever you might be doing. I can also imagine that you must be either unemployed or getting paid by RSS of India to have so much of time in your hand to spread hatred against the Muslims. You have no balls to say anything against those Christians who are converting thousands of people of weak and baseless faith called Hindus. You know uncle Sam may be watching you, you coward.

  • ender

    George.Deal with your issues about your mother with your shrink. I really don’t need to hear that kinda redneck bs

  • Anonymous

    Deb Chatterjee:You have evaded the question why innocent Gujrathi Muslims are being punished for atrocities committed in Kashmir many decades ago.It doesn’t take rocket science to understand why high caste Hindus do not want low caste H indtus to covert to religions which do not have a caste system. Helping the poor and needy is not an integral part of Hindu religion. Hindus, although they do not harm anyone of other religions or castes, help only people of their own caste generally and consider the plight of the poor and lower castes as their Karma, the suffering earned due to bad deeds in their previous life.Should you not be happy when the poor are helped? The high caste Hindus after all don’t care about them at all. What spiritual merit is there in wanting to keep people trapped in their low caste?You have taken advantage of the best Christian education in India, you live in a country with a Christian majority and yet you spread hatred and intolerance in your homeland, where you would not want to return to anyway.In what way is your hatred and intolerance different from the hatred and intolerance of the Muslim extremists you condemn? I see none. Think about it. Militant extremism has the same ugly face and logic of hatred and intolerance, no matter from which religion it stems. Your Hinduism does not shield you from hatred. Most of your genuine peace loving must feel embarrassed about how you portray their religion of peace and universal acceptance.The UN Universal Declaration of Human Rights grants every human being the right to change religions, not just practice any religion.In what way is your idea of forbidding conversions different from the Sharia Law for apostasy that you so love to call barbaric. Isn’t it barbaric for any Hindu to forbid conversion?

  • Anonymous

    Deb Chatterjee:Militant Hindus are using violence to stop Christian missionaries from helping the poor and needy in North India. Should it be a crime if a low caste Hindu wants to escape a religion that condemns them to a low status in the sight of God, condemns them to many lifetimes to escape their plight in this world?Does it take rocket science to understand why high caste Hindus want to maintain the power they have enjoyed for four thousand years by virtue of their being born into their caste alone?

  • Deb Chatterjee

    Anonymous wrote:”Why should innocent Gujrathi Muslims have to be punished for Hindus killed many decades ago in Kashmir?”Justice is the modern form of “revenge”. Innocent Kashmiri Hindus were butchered at the hands of Hizb-i-Islami, Lashkar-e-Tayyiba, Harkat-ul-Mujahadeen and other Pakistan sponsored terrorist groups. (These groups have at the times of the gruesome incidents, claimed responsibility.) The complete fault lies not with the terrorists, but the charade of diplomacy between India and Pakistan, denials and accussations and further denials and accussations. However at the end no one cared for the Hindu pandits, and they left their ancestral homes in tears only to settle as refugees in the trans-Jamuna extension of New Delhi and were “granted asylum”. Imagine how ludicrous/asinine it is to grant a citizen of a country asylum in his/her own country. The US State Department Human Rights Watch never in their annual reports acknowledged this slaughter and the Government of India (manned by dhotiwallahs) never cared.Thus, indegenous Hindu “extremist” groups have emerged to “set the wrongs right”. Is it fair ? No. But it is equally unfair to treat Kashmiri Hindu pandits as second class citizens in their own country. Muslims are surely much elevated in the social status, given the backing of Pakistan’s terrorist groups, and, Indian Government’s quota for jobs/education and even Hajj money (for pilgrimage). The last part is very hilarious. Everybody knows that Islam is against polytheism and Hindus by formal definition can be labelled as “idol worshippers”. The Quran [009:005],[047:004] says that such people should be converted or put to death (if they refuse to accept Islam). So, the contradiction is that when a federally elected government doles out Hajj money, it comes also from the tax money of the Hindus who are labelled as enemies of Islam because they are polytheists. But, Muslim Wakf boards have no shame. They continue to take the money for Hajj from those (Hindus) against whose religious rituals the whole doctrine of Islam is founded. The “extremist” Hindu groups are also getting “silent” support because the people know that government at New Delhi will not care for the majority. The various parties, except the BJP, will cater to the Muslim vote bank. The Kashmiri Hindus have been used as canon fodder by the Government in this political power play between Pakistan and India. The faith in the Government in protecting its majority citizens (Hindus) have eroded long ago. Thus, the people have taken it upon themselves who would do “something” that the Government for some status quo would not do. This is unfortunate, and hence what you see is what is expected to happen.Also, the collective memory of the Hindus on the Islamic (mis)rule of India has not been erased. To forget the heritage of the rich cultural history of Hindus, and the tyranny of Muslim rulers, is suicide. So, far Hindus have not fallen prey to such politically correct claptraps.

  • Anonymous

    There is great reason to fear that Hindu and Muslim extremists in India would use Christians as scapegoats for the violence they inflict. It is after all easy for Hindu extremists to attack Christians for fear of Muslim revenge attacks if they targeted extremist Muslims involved in any violence. Christians have never attacked anyone. Since Hindu extremists fear Muslim retaliation, they use Christians as scapegoats.

  • Anonymous

    In an Orissa daily in India, Maoist leader Azad (a Muslim name) has claimed responsibility for killing of the VHP (Hindu) leader. Revenge attacks by Hindus have however been directed at Christians.

  • Anonymous

    Deb Chatterjee:You are a religious hypocrite filled with hatred and intolerance no different from the Muslim extremists you so love to call barbaric.You don’t understand Christianity, you have never read the Bible, and yet you write as if you understood it better than Christians.You as a Brahmin stand to gain by keeping the lower caste Hindus trapped in their low caste status. You pretend to be interested in the welfare of the lower caste when you would do absolutely nothing for them. You benefited from a Christian education, you live in a country with a Christian majority, you promote hatred and intolerance in India. You ought to cringe with the shame of your hypocrisy, yet you sound so self-righteous! Sickening. It makes me want to throw up. I had expected something better from you, a Hindu Brahmin, exposed to the multi-faith culture of the United States.

  • Anonymous

    Deb Chatterjee:You have constantly wanted the US to keep Muslim extremists out. The US should keep Hindu extremists like you out as well.

  • Anonymous

    Deb Chatterjee:What Hindu extremists like you supposedly want is to convert India into a Hindu version of Saudi Arabia and Iran!

  • Anonymous

    Four thousand years of the Hindu caste system did nothing for the Dalits or other lower castes. What hypocrisy on the part of a Hindu extremist Brahmin like Deb Chatterjee to talk of the “harm” done by Christian missionaries, who are the only ones who have cared enough to go out and help the lower castes.

  • Anonymous

    What needs to be exposed repeatedly are the lies used by Hindu extremist Brahmins/high caste Hindus to prevent anyone from helping the lower caste Hindus. Under the false pretext of not “cheating” the lower caste Hindus, the high caste Hindus would keep them trapped in their lower caste. Sure the high caste Hindus do not want to “cheat” the lower caste Hindus of their low status.

  • ender

    Anonymous posting shouldn’t be allowed. Anonymity is the perview of cowards and terrorist. Grow a pair and use a consistent screen name. In the mean time, I can only respond to Deb C.

  • Anonymous

    ender:Except when under Muslim rule, Indai never invaded any other nation in war of aggression to seize their resources or spread Hindusim.(Sri Lanka may be an exception, but it was traditionally part of India)Muslims have attempted to overthrow the gov’t of every nation they have ever established a population in, and have spread Islam on the point of a sword since inception. Like Abraham, Mohammed was first and formost a tribal warlord.I think all religion should be nonobtrusive, nonevangelican and nonpolitical by law everywhere, but, I know that I have nothing to fear from a Hindu nation.The same is not and has never been true of any nation where any of the Cults of Abraham are predominate.

  • Anonymous

    Are you the owner of The Washington Post by any chance, ENDER, the non-Anonymous blogger?

  • Anonymous

    ENDER, another Hindu extremist who would like to convert India into a Hindu version of Saudi Arabia or Iran? Keep the lower caste Hindus trapped in their low status for another four thousand years at least?

  • Anonymous

    Said Deb Chatterjee, the “Deist Hindu meat eating Brahmin from Kolkotta resident in the US”:”The BJP is hated by the minorities simply because the BJP wants equity (at least on paper) between majority and minority by regarding them as equal citizens of India.”Allegedly the sinister less public face of BJP:The BJP would like to make a Hindu version of Saudi Arabia out of India, where Hindu caste system reigns supreme and apostasy/conversion to other religions is forbidden by law and punished with indiscriminate death and destruction of property to any member of the group they can target, not just the person who has converted.Forced reconversion to Hinduism on pain of death and destruction of property of members of non-Hindu religions.Legal banning of religious freedom except for Hindus.

  • Anonymous

    As long as a low caste Hindu remains as Hindu he could never escape the caste system in India no matter how rich and educated he may be.Luckily Hindu extremists are still not the majority, and most Hindus are peace loving people who find it normal to live with people of other religious faiths as they have done for at least two and a half thousand years, with Buddhism and Jainism becoming major non-Hindu religions within India.The Deb Chatterjees among Hindus who preach intolerance and hatred are no different from the Muslim extremists who preach intolerance and hatred.

  • George

    I have simple question to all hindus on this forum.

  • Anonymous

    As a Deist Hindu meat eating Brahmin who attended a Catholic school in India and now lives as a citizen of the US, a country with a Christian majority, actively promoting Hindu extremism in India, Deb Chatterjee gets an A plus in hypocrisy.

  • Anonymous

    George, Deb Chatterjee attended a Catholic school in India. He has been living in the US for several years and is exposed to Christianity every single day. He has been posting his Hindu extremist views on this forum for nearly two years. Does he need a simplistic presentation of Christianity from you?Please don’t make Christianity look ridiculous by presenting it as you do. Deb Chatterjee knows where to look if he is interested in Christianity. He needs to look no further than Sri Ramakrishna and Vivekananda from his own home state of Kolkotta to become a peace loving Hindu who respects all religions. Besides he lives in the US where Christianity in all forms is everywhere.Deb Chatterjee’s extremists views are not Hindu or religion based. They are entirely politics based.

  • Deb Chatterjee

    Anonymous wrote:”Hinduism is the only religion, I repeat the only religion, which has an oppressive caste system which has kept the poor in India is a separate world for four thousand years.”Could be. I was just pointing out that converting the poor/uneducated Dalits by trickery and falsehood is a crime. It needs to be punished. India is still a Hindu majority country. Using cheating tactics by missionaries and saying that such is legal because of the plight of the Dalits does not make any sense.If the world has problems with India’s caste system, and perhaps rightfully, take it to the UNHRC and rebuke India. Perhaps place sanctions on India if they don’t give Dalits equal status as Brahmins and other major castes. Why use Jesus Christ’s name in an illegal way to fool those poor Dalits and dupe them into conversion ? However any such effort is bound to boomerang because India has now 33% reservation quota for SC/ST and OBC plus Muslims. So, if a Dalit is now being deprived of the economic status and other material opportunities, in this quota-raj business, then that is indeed surprising and most unfortunate. But, using falsehood to convert is a big sham.

  • Anonymous

    Deb Chatterjee:You must consider seriously that many of your ancestors must have reincarnated among the Dalits for their sins of hatred and oppression during their lives as Brahmins.

  • Deb Chatterjee

    “India needs another Gandhi, a Hindu reformer, who will put militant Hindu extremists in their place….”That shall *NEVER* happen, again ! Mohandas Karamchand Gandhi gave birth to the creation of Pakistan. He was solely responsible for initiating usage of (Hindu) religious beliefs into contemporary politics; as such Congress party came to be identified as “party of Hindus”. Thus, he ushered some form of “Hindu theocracy” which is actually forbidden by many great Hindu luminiaries of the past. Chanakya (aka Kautilya), the minister in Chandragupta I (Vikramaditya) court had repeatedly advised against using religion in politics. The famous treatise by Kautilya, ARTHASHASTRA, makes this very very clear – which was written around 100 B.C. (One finds amazing parallels between ARTHASHASTRA and Niccolo Machiavelli’s THE PRINCE – written in 1500 A.D.(?) Both have most useful practical wisdom for politics and state governance.)BTW, I am very happy that Gandhi was assassinated by Nathuram Godse. It is simply because of Gandhi that Muhammad Ali Jinnah turned to “Muslim identity” and kept stating that “Hindus and Muslims” cannot live together unless partition happened. The divide was actually initiated by Gandhi, based on religious identities. If Gandhi had not instigated Jinnah, he would not have left Congress and formed his own Muslim League that only resulted in Pakistan and thus the vivisection of India, and precipitaed the present Kahsmir problem. In Hindi I would state:”Ram naam satya hai ! Murda Gandhi mast hai !” (Approximate translation: Ram is truth ! Dead Gandhi is happy !)

  • Deb Chatterjee

    Unless this forum returns to its original mission: Kashmir secession, I’ll not respond to irrelevant questions on Christianity in India and Dalist etc., on this blogsite.

  • Koshur

    Deb,

  • Anonymous

    Said Deb Chatterjee:Anonymous wrote:”Hinduism is the only religion, I repeat the only religion, which has an oppressive caste system which has kept the poor in India is a separate world for four thousand years.”Could be. I was just pointing out that converting the poor/uneducated Dalits by trickery and falsehood is a crime. It needs to be punished. India is still a Hindu majority country. Using cheating tactics by missionaries and saying that such is legal because of the plight of the Dalits does not make any sense.If the world has problems with India’s caste system, and perhaps rightfully, take it to the UNHRC and rebuke India. Perhaps place sanctions on India if they don’t give Dalits equal status as Brahmins and other major castes. Why use Jesus Christ’s name in an illegal way to fool those poor Dalits and dupe them into conversion ? ————————Buddha, Mahavir and Guru Nank founded new religions because of the limitations of Hinduism. Christianity in India is nineteen and a half centuries old.Hindus worship any God in any way they please and nobody is policing them about their choice. Hindus have reformed their religion over and over again.There is no Hindu authority to dictate terms about what Hinduism is.Banning conversion is an evil high caste Hindu extremist trick.i It is barbaric especially because of the caste system which keeps low castes trapped. Most importantly ban on religious conversion stands in violation of basic human rights. It is in violation of the UN Declaration of Universal Human Rights.On what grounds does a Deistic Hindu explain Christianity and how a Christian ought to behave in accordance with Christianity.An extremist Deist Hindu, the hypocrite who benefited from Christian education in India, one who enjoys the benefits of a country founded on Christian principles and has a Christian majority, and promotes intolerance and hatred against non-Hindus in India to maintain the power status for his Hindu caste is a SICKENING and POOR JOKE.

  • Deb Chatterjee

    Koshur wrote:”You stupidly started this discussion of blasphemising not only Islam but also great religion of Christianity, who by the way we call “People of the Book”.”First, I did not start/initiate anything against Christianity or Christian doctrines. Just read my posts. I have expressed outrage against the lying and cheating tactics used by Christian missionaries in converting poor/uneducated DalitsSecond, I have no respect/tolerance for the message/doctrine of Islam (Quran/Sharia). I believe that Islam is a barbaric religion. This is markedly different from my opposition to the practices of the Christian missionaries used to convert the Dalits in India. Again, I must emphasize, because apparently some people like your noble self are pathologically slow to learn, that my posts on this and other blogs have never castigated anything against Christian doctrines or message of Jesus Christ. If you (or others) can, show me where I have *EXPLICITLY* condemned the Bible or Christ’s message, I’d remain corrected and humbled. Of course you (George/Koshur) are a Muslim and hence would stand confused to discern anything like that. Third, and quite amusingly this is what the glorious Quran has to say about “People of the Book” (inclusive of the Judaism and Christianity)YUSUFALI: “Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.” [Quran(009:029)]. And again this piece of gem regarding Jews and Christians …YUSUFALI: “O ye who believe! take not the Jews and the Christians for your friends and protectors: They are but friends and protectors to each other. And he amongst you that turns to them (for friendship) is of them. Verily Allah guideth not a people unjust.” [Quran(005:051)].It is indeed the above, and you are falsely projecting the non-existent harmony between Islam and the “People of the Book”, or, Muslims and Jews and Christians.Unfortunately, your attempt to mislead readers on this forum have been detected and exposed. “Everybody has a right to choose the righteous religion or faith. Why are you so frustrated if people find Islam or Christianity as an answer to your faith that basically is completely irrelevant in present day world?”I am frustrated because conversions are a sham if they are done for economic upliftment/material gain. (Of course in a present day world whom you worship and how you do it is irrelevant. But if the existing laws are broken in the process of conversion it is indeed a serious matter. The state government must take notice and prevent such sham conversions.) And recent conversions to Christianity in India have been reported to have happened by deception. (This is not the same when Saint Thomas the Apostle who came to India about 1900 years ago and converted the Namboodiri Brahmins to Christianity. The Brahmins were not ignorant, or poor or looking for material gain. They were knowledgeable. Saint Thomas desired that only people with knowledge convert to Christianity. Too bad that the Christian orthodoxy have rejected the Gospel of Saint Thomas.) Thus recent conversions to Christianity in India (by the poor/uneducated Dalits) is not the same like when one has accepted a path of worship by thoroughly understanding it. The two are radically different. Of course, you and your likes wouldn’t agree, but that’s irrelevant.

  • Anonymous

    Deb Chatterjee: “I was just pointing out that converting the poor/uneducated Dalits by trickery and falsehood is a crime. It needs to be punished. India is still a Hindu majority country. Using cheating tactics by missionaries and saying that such is legal because of the plight of the Dalits does not make any sense.”Christian charity and tenets of the Christian religion is a crime according to a Hindu extremist who calls the apostasy law in Islam barbaric? How interesting and outright hypocritical!There is no Hindu Scripture preventing anyone from worshiping any God they please. So on what basis does a Hindu extremist invent this rule?Is it not outright criminal to prevent anyone from leaving a religion which keeps them socially oppressed based on their birth alone?Hindu extremists need to be kept in check and prevented from spreading their lies and using violence and intimidation to keep lower castes trapped in a situation they have remained helpless for four thousand years.India needs another Gandhi, a Hindu reformer, who will put militant Hindu extremists in their place and fight for the rights of any Indian to worship any God in anyway and even change their religion if they chose in accordance with REAL Hinduism.

  • Anonymous

    Hindu extremists need to be reminded that every Indian has the right to practice any religion they damn well please and change religions as often as they damn well please.Hindus worship different gods depending on their needs and mood. So what’s the big difference?

  • Koshur

    well. I just read the ticker on CNNIt is shame and all those so called educated Indians enjoying everything in this country should drown themselves in to a trench full of sh…..

  • george

    Deb,

  • Deb Chatterjee

    George wrote:”Has your mother or sister worshiped shivas lingh, have they touched it. Tell them how it feels do they get devilish ideas like sita, when she was touched by Ravana.”Oh, yes they both have worshipped and poured milk on that black majestic stone too. Its Shiva’s phallus (lingam). However, I have asked them and they denied having any “devilish” ideas. I was told that a sizeable majority of Muslim women in their annual Hajj pilgrimage would hug and kiss that solid phallus-shaped black stone at Ka’ba, and have sexual arousal. I can ask my Muslim friends to send you some similar black stones for appropriate personal use by female members of your family.Get the drift ? 🙂

  • George

    Wow, that is great to know that even after touching phallus they do not get devilish ideas. What a self control seen only in upper class hindu females. But tell both your mother and sister even daughter, like lord shiva I too want to test there self control.

  • john

    Oh my God,

  • Anonymous

    Deb Chatterjee: “I have expressed outrage against the lying and cheating tactics used by Christian missionaries in converting poor/uneducated DalitsIf thethe teachings of the Bible and Jesus Christ is good and Jesus is accepted as Divine by famous Hindus, in including Sri Ramakrishna, Vivekananda…why is it wrong to convert lower caste Hindus to Christianity by practicing the tenets of Christianity, the command of Jesus to help the poor?All Catholic institutions in India offer their services to all Indians without making any attempt to convert them to Christianity. The fact that you attended a Catholic school and remain an extremist Hindu is proof!

  • Koshur

    This is really getting nasty. I will certainly ask Washington post to remove the names of those publishing profanity on their web and people like this stupid idiot pseodonym Chatterjee should feel ashamed of flaring up these personal attacks. Mr George, you started well, but Chatterjee has been successful in getting you also in mud. Leave this creep alone. I will also sign off not to even write about this creep whos agenda is nothing but Muslim bashing. I want to part with these comments. The black stone is not Phallus like and the story about it not like the imaginary penis of your lord shiva. At least black stone has been there for 1400 years and was only used by prophet to designate the site where Kaba would be built.Ask your another RSS buddy the then governor Sinha who got Penis of Shiva made from somewhere Himachal Pradesh by freezing water in the shape of lingum as Amarnath Cave teperature had gone up and no penis was formed. What a crap. You know well how Hindus got mad about it and found that it was an artificial man made penis.You should feel ashamed by comparing the two stones. One is filth of imagination and another is from heaven. It is not like the dirty penis like stone on which rats pee and potty in your dirty temples.

  • Deb Chatterjee

    Koshur wrote, provocatively:”One is filth of imagination and another is from heaven.”In my view, Islam is the filth. Sorry for being so explicit. You can write whatever you want to your Eboo Patel who owns this WP blog (Faith Divide), and being your fellow co-religionist it will not be difficult for him to have me removed. It shall, however, be not the end. I have other forums to vent my opinion against Islam.FYI, I post from USA which has the 1st Amendment (Freedom of Speech). This is not Pakistan or India or some other stupid Muslim country. I or any US citizen can be *offensive* of any doctrine (and that includes Islam) or any religion. That’s the 1st Amendment right. If Eboo Patel wants to stop this, fine with me. One thing: you are right in that your friend George (which maybe you in reality) has been instigating such nastiness in the first place. I just thought of paying back in the same coin. If I have sounded too crude, I remain humbled. It is certainly not my objective to engage in personal attacks. However, I (or anyone else) have the right to hardball if provoked.

  • Anonymous

    Deb Chatterjee:You seem to be a political hack for the Hindu fundamentalist Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP).It seems that the aim is to overturn the provision in the Indian Constitution which seeks to compensate in some measure the four thousand years of social oppression of the lower castes, by reserving places in government educational institutions and jobs for them.Hence the high caste Hindu in you would like “equality on paper” another word for abolishing the means provided by the Constitution to help the lower castes. You make it sound you are for equality but what you really want is return of Manu Smrithi days where upper castes had all the advantages and the lower castes lived in a different world.It takes a long time for the effect of four thousand years of oppression to be diminished.The high caste Hindu in you would not like to see lower caste Hindus freed from the spiritual burden of belonging to the lower caste by converting to a religion that has no caste system.The Hindu caste system is not a religious philosophy, it is Hindu social order.

  • Anonymous

    George, quite calling yourself a Christian. You are writing rubbish.

  • Anonymous

    Deb Chatterjee:Your tactics, the tactics of the upper caste Hindu BJP you represent (luckily there are plenty of upper and lower caste Hindus who can see through the sinister intent of BJP) are Machiavellian indeed and it is all about gaining political power and restricting power to a few high caste Hindus. The hatred for Gandhi is to be understood from that perspective.The Hindu-only India is an outright lie. Hinduism in itself is a confederation of religions with no central teachings or authority. There have always been other religions within India for at least two and a half thousand years and they have all co-existed peacefully.This new militant Hinduism is a political invention by a few.An extremist Hindu who attended a Catholic school in India and who lives in the US, a country with a Christian majority, does militant Hindu politics in India by remote control.Deb Chatterjee seems to have forgotten that India is not a country of immigrants like the US. It is ridiculous to talk of Indian minorities as if they were foreigners. There are Indians who practice Hinduism as a religion and there are Indians who practice other religions. All are Indians.Deb Chatterjee would like to introduce aspects of Sharia Law by calling non-Hindus in India as minorities who must be awarded certain rights by the ruling class of Hindus. It is a fact that Christians and Muslims in India feel a certain affinity due to their religion. But Deb Chatterjee would like to destroy that for his Hindu extpolitical ends. Machiavellian indeed.

  • Anonymous

    Deb Chatterjee:Your tactics, the tactics of the upper caste Hindu BJP you represent (luckily there are plenty of upper and lower caste Hindus who can see through the sinister intent of BJP) are Machiavellian indeed and it is all about gaining political power and restricting power to a few high caste Hindus. The hatred for Gandhi is to be understood from that perspective.The Hindu-only India is an outright lie. Hinduism in itself is a confederation of religions with no central teachings or authority. There have always been other religions within India for at least two and a half thousand years and they have all co-existed peacefully.This new militant Hinduism is a political invention by a few.An extremist Hindu who attended a Catholic school in India and who lives in the US, a country with a Christian majority, does militant Hindu politics in India by remote control.Deb Chatterjee seems to have forgotten that India is not a country of immigrants like the US. It is ridiculous to talk of Indian minorities as if they were foreigners. There are Indians who practice Hinduism as a religion and there are Indians who practice other religions. All are Indians.Deb Chatterjee would like to introduce aspects of Sharia Law by calling non-Hindus in India as minorities who must be awarded certain rights by the ruling class of Hindus. It is a fact that Christians and Muslims in India feel a certain affinity due to their religion. But Deb Chatterjee would like to destroy that for his Hindu extremism based political ends. Instead of promoting unity, he would like to promote division.Machiavellian indeed.

  • Deb Chatterjee

    George wrote (or fulminated):”…what is your fault if you were born in a hindu family.But if later on you decide to come out of this filth, you should be encouraged”Actually I agree with you. However, look what you have written, unless someone typed using your computer and e-mail account.The key is “But if later on you decide …” This IS NOT happening. The poor/uneducated Hindus are duped by Christian missionaries. In one instance a bus load of Dalit children were traveling to a camp run by the Christian missionaries for a picnic. In the middle the bus apparently broke down. Then the father in his robe got down and told the children (who were still Hindus) that they shoul,d pary to whatever gods they believed for the bus to start. The children prayed and the father watched. Obviously the bus did not start. Then the father knelt before a small bible and prayed in the name of Jesus Christ; the driver got up and tried to turn the ignition key. Lo ! Behold ! The bus started ! The father then lectured that he has proved that Jesus Christ is powerful than the Hindu gods. The result was that at the “picnic party” the children were converted and then the missionaries went to the houses of these children, telling their parents the entire incident, and requested them to “embrace Jesus”. The parents were also told that they would receive better life if they embraced Jesus. Some of the destitute converted and were promptly isolated by the missionaries because the missionaries feared that the corrupting influence of their Hindu relatives may cause them to revert back to paganism (Hinduism). The local police came to know this from the Bajrang Dal activists who told the police that unless such incidxents stop they would burn down the police station (called “chowk” in India). This incident happened in Keonjhar (Orissa) a few years ago.This is the way the Christian missionaries, use the name of Jesus and the God of the Bible in vain, engage in falsehood and trickery to convert the uneducated. They (missionaries) must be stopped because the poor and the uneducated Hindus are being fooled by such crooks in the name of religious conversion. George, are you a Muslim hiding behind a Christian name ? Anonymous:Why can’t Christian missionaries convert Muslims in Pakistan or Saudi Arabia ? Why let Christian missionaries abuse the lax conversion laws of India ? Got any clues ? Arte you yelling at me that Jesus would be happy if he came to know of such deception ?

  • Anonymous

    The caste system has been a blight on Hinduism for four thousand years. The Brahmins have always had vested interest in keeping the caste system intact for their exclusive power by virtue of their birth depends on it.It does not take rocket science to understand why some of them would try to push it under a political agenda, read: BJP policy – India for Hindus only, where non-Hindus would be second class. They sure must be reading the worst aspects of Sharia Law and incorporating it into Hinduism, like punishment for leaving Hinduism. Accepting any other religion is treated as illegal. Hindu extremists need to be reminded that India is a secular democracy and is a member of the UN. If India needs to maintain its pride as being the largest democracy in the world, Hindu extremists need to be put in their place and reminded to take a refresher course in real Hinduism as taught by the great Hindu reformers of recent times.Mahatma Gandhi is the Father of the Free Indian Nation, not a Hindu extremist.

  • Deb Chatterjee

    Anonymous wrote:”The Deb Chatterjees among Hindus who preach intolerance and hatred are no different from the Muslim extremists who preach intolerance and hatred.”There is a *MAJOR* difference between so-called “Hindu extremists” and Muslim jihadis. The “Hindu extremist” CAN NOT justify in any way that their “extreme” (?) actions ared based on the tenets of some religious Hindu text which is still followed by the majority Hindus and whose authority is unquestioned. There is NO such ancient religious text today which Hindus can point out as the source of their “extremism”. Also, Prof. Samuel P. Huntington (Harvard University & author of CLASH OF CIVILIZATIONS) wrote that according to his researches Hindus have always governed by secular laws. The king’s decision was supreme in all matters legal. The king had the authority to reject any suggestions from his ministers even if those suggestions or recommendations could be substantiated by some religious edicts/doctrine. For a Hindu the religion (temple) and state (king’s court) were totally different and separate. The situation is totally different for Muslim jihadists. They claim that their violence is justified in the Quran: war against infidels. To that end, they always show that Prophet Muhammad used violence when unbelievers did nit heed his call to convert to Islam. Thus, with a jihadi he is always right in blasting infidels and he is not obligated to reason it with you. Because Quran advocates liberal use of violence, it is not possible to tell a Muslim (extremist) that Quran is wrong. In a secular country it would be interfering with religious freedom, never mind that the religion of Islam which is hiduing behind the “religious freedom” provision, is actually poised to destroy it. This, is the difference which you are apparently unaware of.

  • Anonymous

    Deb Chatterjee:You indulge in the same tactics of lying and misrepresentation of facts that has been commonly seen among Muslim extremists.Do you know the real history of Christianity in India? Did you know it is possible to abandon Hinduism and accept Christianity because of the limitation of Hinduism? Who needs the caste system, law of karma and many lifetimes and social oppression in the name of religion – Hinduism? Hindus help only people in their own caste and subcaste. They mock Christians for helping the poor! Hinduism is the only religion, I repeat the only religion, which has an oppressive caste system which has kept the poor in India is a separate world for four thousand years.

  • Anonymous

    Deb Chatterjee:

  • Deb Chatterjee

    Anonymous wrote:”What does the outcome of Kashmir have to do with the rest of India? If Kashmiri separatists succeed, too bad. It simply means that politics and diplomacy in Kashmir failed, nothing more.”It is because of this mentality that the VHP/Bajrang Dal activists are out for your likes. To respond your question, however, it is this:If Kashmir secedes then the rest of India, which is comprised of several local regional parties would claim to secede because of their rights to “self-determination”. At that time the Government of India cannot maintain its opposition having allowed Kashmir to secede. Muslikm majority pockets in India, such as Hyderabad, Lucknow would call for secession. Other divisive forces such as in Assam etc., would call for secession. That would disintegrate India and the situation be ripe for Christian missionaries to take advantage of this instability to convert the pagan (Hindu) souls with the express objective of scoring brownie points with God of the Bible. (This is not unheard of; in times of war in Afghanistan, Korean missionaries sent a team to convert Afghanis. The Talibans trapped them and decapitated one of the members. This shows that any which possible, conversion remains a major goal of the zealous Christian missionaries, and they would risk losing their lives in the name of Jesus ! How commendable !) For your converted likes, there is no difference if Kashmir stays or not. As long as mendicants like you can lick the feet of your spiritual and quota masters, you are fine.Hallelujah !

  • Anonymous

    Deb Chatterjee:As a final thought, suppose Kashmir seceded, and with covert assistance from the UPA-led Govt., led by Monkey Singh, then India should redefine herself as:1. The HINDU REPUBLIC OF INDIA2. Modify the Constitution to protect and prioritize Hindu interests.3. Enforce the Uniform Civil Code (Article 44 of the Indian Constitution).4. Abolish all quota systems in jobs/education etc. for minorities that currently exists.5. Treat Muslims and other minorities with equal respect and dignity as long as they behave as responsible citizens of India. Else, they are free to leave.This, in my view would protect the interests of the majority (India) of India. Go anywhere in the world, almost all protect the interests of the majority of the population including USA. Why should India be an exception ?August 25, 2008 12:09 PM

  • Anonymous

    Deb Chatterjee:If the sickening hypocrisy you exhibit is not obvious to you, then you must be deluded indeed. You attended a Catholic school in India, you live in the United States, a country with a Christian majority, and yet, you are actively involved as a political hack for a Hindu fascist party in India!Your Machiavellian motives are clear as day:You want a Hindu state where high caste Hindus would get to dictate all the terms.What you want overturned is the quota system that is meant to help the communities that were oppressed for four thousand years in the name of Hinduism. You want to bring back that oppression.If other Indians don’t submit to a fascist Hindu regime, they are free to leave??????? Where??India is not a country of immigrants you know. Non-Hindu Indians are as much Indian as Hindu Indians.HOW EXACTLY DO YOU DIFFER FROM EXTREMIST MUSLIMS YOU SO LOVE TO CALL BARBARIC?

  • Anonymous

    Deb Chatterjee:”If Kashmir secedes then the rest of India, which is comprised of several local regional parties would claim to secede because of their rights to “self-determination”. At that time the Government of India cannot maintain its opposition having allowed Kashmir to secede. Muslim majority pockets in India, such as Hyderabad, Lucknow would call for secession. Other divisive forces such as in Assam etc., would call for secession. That would disintegrate India and the situation be ripe for Christian missionaries to take advantage of this instability to convert the pagan (Hindu) souls with the express objective of scoring brownie points with God of the Bible. (This is not unheard of; in times of war in Axfghanistan, Korean missionaries sent a team to convert Afghanis. The Talibans trapped them and decapitated one of the members. This shows that any which possible, conversion remains a major goal of the zealous Christian missionaries, and they would risk losing their lives in the name of Jesus ! How commendable !)For your converted likes, there is no difference if Kashmir stays or not. As long as mendicants like you can lick the feet of your spiritual and quota masters, you are fine.”———————————-You invent a long fairy tale of “ifs” to justify turning India into a Hindu theocracy.Muslims have lived in India for centuries among Hindus. There was Muslim rule for 300 hundred years in a large part of India (not in all) before the British arrived. There was a call for separate countries based on Islam during partition in 1947. Yet there are 140 million Muslims still living in India scattered among Hindus. There are 25% Muslims in West Bengal, even after the partition; there is an equal percentage of Muslims in Kerala (25%). No Muslim in India has called for a separate country since independence or even before that in other parts of India where Muslims have always lived. But you invent a theory that they might, in order to justify achieving your goal of a Hindu fascist India.Similarly there have been Christians in India since 52 AD. Yet you invent a theory that there is going to be a mad rush of Christian missionaries to India if Kashmir becomes independent. What kind of crazy logic is that? What has Kashmiri independence, if it happens, got to do with rushing of Christian missionaries into India?You suggested the serious possibility of Kashmir gaining independence from India, not I. However you see that as a pretext to turn India into a fascist Hindu theocracy, I don’t. Hindu militants of your political colors are using violence against Christian missionaries in the North, against Indian Christian missionaries, and YOU SEEM TO APPROVE OF IT BECAUSE OF YOUR HINDU FASCIST IDEALS.In Christianity there is no such thing as “Guru Pooja” worship of a man, Guru, like a god. Only Jesus is worshiped like God, no one else. Only Hindus fall at the feet of their gurus and worship them like god. So maybe you got the facts a bit mixed up maybe?It is true Hindu sannyasis and some Buddhist monks live like mendicants as part of their spiritual conviction. Christian missionaries usually don’t. They are known to help the poor with both material things, and spiritual instruction. It is based on a different understanding of God and spirituality you know.Is that your problem, that Christianity has a different understanding of God and spreading the faith by peaceful means is part of it, just like Buddhism? You are obviously bitter that the founding fathers of India wanted to help the socially oppressed, and hence worked the quota system into the Indian Constitution precisely because they were familiar with the four thousand year history of India where Brahmins like you kept all the power and advantages. So well did they know that the likes of you would try to regain power in a Machiavellian fashion as soon as opportunity presented itself. LIKE YOU ARE SUGGESTING NOW, hardly sixty years after such a Constitution was framed to compensate for four thousand years of oppression! Btw, Nehru, although agnostic himself, was a Kashmiri Brahmin. So the Congress party you are against have many Brahmins among their ranks too, but the kind who are not fascist and selfish like you and the party you represent.

  • Anonymous

    Deb Chatterjee:It is my heartfelt desire that Kashmir will remain a part of India and Kashmiri Muslims freely choose to belong to India, and ALL violence stop.

  • Anonymous

    Deb Chatterjee:Your hatred and intolerance of non-Hindus is pathetic. I’m amazed that living so long in the US has left your extremist values unchanged.

  • george

    deb,

  • Anonymous

    George, I can’t for the life of me believe you are a Christian or intend to represent Christianity by writing such revolting stuff.If you do not wish to bring shame on Christians with your behavior, I urgently request you to stop writing filth. Join a sex chat or something if you feel the urge to write such rot.

  • Anonymous

    Deb Chatterjee: “For your converted likes, there is no difference if Kashmir stays or not. As long as mendicants like you can lick the feet of your spiritual and quota masters, you are fine.”The “quota master” for your information is the Indian Constitution. So it is a legal right which doesn’t require any Indian who is eligible under the quota system to lick anyone’s feet. However should dark times and tragedy befall India, and sufficient number of Indians should turn insane enough to undo the work of the fathers of the Nation and have a Fascist Hindu political party gain enough power to declare India a “India-for-Hindus only nation which overturns the Constitution, along with its quota system meant to uplift the lower castes…then, then, Indians will be at the mercy of high caste Hindus once more as they have been for four thousand years,… and nepotism will be the law of the land, and no amount of licking the high caste Hindu feet will get the low caste Hindu anywhere, for the low caste Hindu is expected to remain in his low caste status and poverty for sins in his past life…Btw, unfortunately I do not have access to the preferential quota system written into the Indian Constitution for I’m listed as forward caste… just like you.

  • Anonymous

    Deb Chatterjee:”Conversion is fine with me and many “extremist” Hindus. However that conversion has to have some moral basis. If low caste Dalit Hindus want to convert by self motivation, fine. But if that Dalit, upon interrogation says that he was told to convert and offered some money and he converted, then that is a crime. It is cheating the Indian legal system. So, as long as the Christian missionaries play by the legal system, it is fine with me.”How much philosophy does it require on the part of a Dalit to accept Jesus Christ as one more Avatar, when Hinduism is used to worshipping many gods or Avatars? Whereas Hinduism puts a Dalit at the bottom of the society, even completely out of the Hindu society, as an out-caste, by virtue of his birth alone, Christianity offers Jesus Christ as the Avatar who sought out the poor and social out-castes of His day to tell them of God’s love for them.In Christianity the law of Karma and reincarnation is abolished. A Dalit does not have to live with the feeling that he suffers because of sins in past lives and deserves to suffer without being helped out of it.Isn’t that attractive enough as a religious philosophy for a Dalit who is used to being ignored and treated like dirt for four thousand years?And you are convinced Hindu extremists, who have an agenda of their own and would like to stop conversions to Christianity in order not to lose power, are telling the truth about conversions with bribe? Which Dalit would not want to be helped materially? Jesus taught that the hungry are to be fed, the naked clothed, the sick attended to, even prisoners to be visited…in His name and whatever a Christian does for the least of His brethren would be counted as being done for Him. Jesus identified with the poor, the sick and the suffering…..Gandhi tried to live that in his life. A Christian is to be judged not on the number of hours he spent in meditation and mental gymnastics about God, but by how much they help the needy and suffering. Hence the Christian focus on helping the poor and needy.Should you not be happy that Dalits are being helped out of their material and spiritual poverty? In Hinduism only the Brahmin gets to read Scripture and understand things of God.

  • Anonymous

    Deb Chatterjee:”I am not a official card carrying member of the BJP/RSS/VHP/Bajrang Dal/Shiv Sena. But I do sympathize with most (but not all) of their social agendas. Most Hindus do. These parties have adopted some “extremist” positions because they have also to stay relevant. If, agenda wise, the Congress and the BJP are the same, then why should BJP exist as a political party ? Can you explain this to me ?”Are you their remote, unwise, Machiavellian political adviser then? You do sympathize with MOST of BJP’s extremist, Hindu fascist, social agendas…in spite of having lived in the US for so long???????????Is becoming militant, divisive and Hindu fascist the only way to carve out a different political identity from the Congress party? Who says BJP must exist as a political party? If they can’t think of better ways of being politically useful, they should everybody a favor and disappear into Himalaya to do tapas for their sins thus far, lest they be condemned to be reincarnated as Dalits or animals for the next hundred lives.

  • Anonymous

    Deb Chatterjee:”Kashmir is an essential and integral part of India. If Kashmir secedes, then India must declare itself as a Hindu country. (It would be ridiculous to remain “secular” to the point that it can be hurtful to India’s identity.)Sorry for being so explicit.”India is a secular democracy and the founding fathers did a good job of creating it as a secular democracy with religious freedom for all. It has done just fine as a secular democracy until now. India does not need any Hindu based religious nuts ruling the country as a Hindu theocracy any more than any country needs Islamic theocracy.What does the outcome of Kashmir have to do with the rest of India? If Kashmiri separatists succeed, too bad. It simply means that politics and diplomacy in Kashmir failed, nothing more.

  • Anonymous

    Deb Chatterjee:You do spiritual giants like Sri Ramakrishna and Vivekananda no favor when you remain a politically motivated Hindu extremist.

  • Chris

    The hindu religion is not only filthy, but unlike other monotheistic religions barbaric too. Look at these bastar**who call trhemselves patriots and kill the minority whether it is sikhs, muslims, christians and dalits. They have Devil gods and do devilish deeds. It is not only old and outdated religion but dangerous to humanity as well to nature too. The ganges which is supposed to be pure is full of filth. They kill people in the name of sacrifice to please their gods. They promote prostitution at their places of worship. More important they should be thrown out of this country as they are stinky, smelly,untidy and dangerous. In the name of religion they can do any thing. They were the only people who used bioterrorism against this country. I tell you kick them out.Their God Rajnesh was the person who did it.Their females are ugly too with with fat bottoms and pendulous bellies and the worse thing is they smell horrible.

  • Roger

    Chris I agree with you. They are very dirty people. I have been to India and have first hand experience with these people. They are really ugly.

  • Aditya

    Dear Muslims Brothers,

  • Koshur

    I sincerely feel bad for poor Aditya. He has tried to act moron by writing and infact accepting that he does not know english( He infact may be trying to act stupid). He infact is moron as he is so far from the facts about Kashmir. Kashmir is neither Punjab nor North-East. For your knowledge it was never part of India. He seems to be like an anencphalic form of Chatterjee. In the meantime Chatterjees Chatter is fizzling out and he has run out of choicest words for Islam and its prophet.

  • Anonymous

    So KOSHUR it was you posting as George? Shame on you!Kashmir was/is indeed part of India, as was Pakistan and Bangladesh.Have you forgotten Indian history, how some Muslims wanted a separate country based on their religion only in 1947 and Pakistan and the current Bangladesh was created by partitioning India?It is not a coincidence that the part of India wanting to be a separate country has Muslim majority. Indians therefore fear that the 140 million Muslims living in India would somehow create trouble and ask for a separate country. Can you understand the anxiety? Maybe you can’t. Even so, Kashmir was always a part of India.

  • Aditya

    Thanks you Kosur, Ironically India has an ambassador for its cause in you. After reading your comments I bet not educated sensible person will ever think of supporting Muslims. Don’t think anybody can be fooled by various Pseudonymes that you assume. . Everybody knows. You just don’t cringe while lying through your teeth. See what islam has done to you.

  • ender

    The blatant racisism of the supposedly Christian poster are enough explanation for me of why Indian Hindus would get tired of them proselytizing rather quickly.History of Abrahamic Religion101.

  • Muslim

    I will request all people who posted comments here that dont indulge abusing each other.Islam is a religion of peace, love and tolerance. Facts dont change if somebody repeats on chanting lies against Islam and Prophet Mohammad (PBUH). There is a verse in quran saying dont say anything bad about about their false Gods as they can say bad about your true gods. There are some people here, God has sealed their hearts. They have no eyes to see the truth, and no ears to hear the message of God. May Allah show every body the path of truth. May allah enlighted your hearts and take you out of darkness.

  • ender

    Three thousand yrs of the Cults of Abraham have kept the human race at war long enough. While I don’t believe Hinduism, it has never been a reason for nation to attack nation and supports secualar nations and gov’ts.I don’t want to see the world burn in the name of mideastern tribalism and a paternal wargod created in the image of the warlords that created it. It is time the peoples of the world move beyond superstition and ancient tribal myths and seek to better themselves and the race by seeking wisdom and truly ethical behavior based on examination and careful thought, not what dead old men invented to rule other men.

  • Anonymous

    ENDER, if you are a humanitarian atheist, then fight to keep the Indian government secular and give no room for militant fascist Hindus to take over and convert it into a theocracy and the old ways of exploitation of lower castes. However I suspect you are a Hindu fascist yourself pretending to be an outsider and an atheist. You come across as the kind of fascist Hindu coward who is afraid of justice seeking Muslim retaliation permitted by their religion, so you would target only Christians who have always been peace loving. As for your knowledge of Judaism, Christianity and Islam, you better get better sources of information. You are displaying pathetic ignorance in your post.Christianity came to India in 52 AD, brought by an Apostle of Jesus, a mere nineteen years after the crucifixion and Resurrection of Jesus.And by the way the historical evidence of the crucifixion of Jesus has been corroborated by a Jewish and Roman historian.

  • Anonymous

    ender:Let’s not forget the Sikhs, with the most recent claim to governance of Kashmir other than the British, whom have been pretty much force out of the region by outrageous human rights violations.India was a Hindu nation that was conquered by Muslims then retaken by Hindus many hundreds of years ago. Using standard Islamic practice, Islam used its period of armed conquest to import millions of Muslims and attempt to take over a nation by sheer numbers. Since Muslims traditionally insist on Islamic states with a state gov’t and don’t play well with others, India was kind enough in ’47 to follow a UN recommendation and voluntarily give up Pakistan for an Islamic state.Sikhs ruled Kashmir at the time. Pakistani Islamicist have been infiltrating and replacing the Hindu and Sikh population for 50+ years and are using their normal terrorist tactics to take more of India. If the Indian police or military fight back, they are blamed for human rights violations, while Muslims force Islamic law on the entire area.India should not give up another inch to Muslim invaders. They should learn to live in a Secular society or move.August 27, 2008 11:35 AM _______________________________________________You ARE a Hindu.Brush up your Indian history.India existed as an empire nearly two and a half thousand years ago, in the time of Emperor Ashoka, a BUDDHIST. A BUDDHIST, NOT a Hindu!After that India consisted of *many small kingdoms* ruled by Hindu kings.Muslims did invade North India and conquer some parts, but they did NOT import *millions* of Muslims from Arabia. Many came as rulers but they converted Indian Hindus to Islam.Muslims ruled some parts of India for three hundred years. After that India became a British colony for two hundred years. It was the British who united India as it was just before Independence, NOT Hindus or Muslims. So it is worthwhile to keep in mind that after a Buddhist emperor united India, it was the British who drew the map of pre-independent India.So you need to correct your view that India was retaken from Muslims hundreds of years ago.There are many parts of India, especially in the South where Muslims have never ruled. But they remained small independent kingdoms ruled by Hindu kings until the British came. The Hindu kings did not persecute non-Hindu minorities, so Muslims and Christians lived in peace with Hindus.The modern militant fascist Hindu political party are violent and intolerant. They have nothing to do with the Hindu India of the past.

  • Anonymous

    ender:Anonymous posting shouldn’t be allowed. Anonymity is the perview of cowards and terrorist. Grow a pair and use a consistent screen name. In the mean time, I can only respond to Deb C.August 31, 2008 10:08 AM___________________________________You are another Hindu fascist living in a Western country with a Christian majority encouraging militant fascist Hindus in India to be intolerant towards their own, who happen to practice other religions including Christianity. Shameless hypocrite!

  • Anonymous

    ender:Except when under Muslim rule, Indai never invaded any other nation in war of aggression to seize their resources or spread Hindusim.(Sri Lanka may be an exception, but it was traditionally part of India)Muslims have attempted to overthrow the gov’t of every nation they have ever established a population in, and have spread Islam on the point of a sword since inception. Like Abraham, Mohammed was first and formost a tribal warlord.I think all religion should be nonobtrusive, nonevangelican and nonpolitical by law everywhere, but, I know that I have nothing to fear from a Hindu nation.The same is not and has never been true of any nation where any of the Cults of Abraham are predominate.___________________________________Sri Lanka was traditionally a part of India? Have you read the Ramayana? You have nothing to fear from a Hindu nation because you are a Hindu. Have you cared to ask what non-Hindu Indians may have to say about not being allowed to practice their religion?

  • Aamir

    It is interesting to read the bloggs of ‘Ender and Bender the Chatterjee’. Ender is hiding his identity and claiming to be a Christian and Bender the Chatterjee has now bend so much that he took the refuge of Budhism.He seems to be changing his colours. I can simply empathise with both of them. They seem to have read some literature which unfortunately is directed only against the people of certain faiths and at the same time they ignore the actual message of those faiths. They should be intelligent enough to separate the political face of all the three Abrahamic faiths from the religious one and I can tell you neither the Ender nor the Bender Chatterjee will have anything to question about.These people are taking certain quotes out of context and beating the same rhetoric time and again.

  • Aditya

    Hi, There is no point arguing nd counter arguing. We have all decided to sty entrenched in our position. However I just want to tell Muslims that, see brothers sometimes flight of fancy catchs our imagination to the extent that we loose control on our being. You have been arguing things like Kashmir was never part of India. I agree that no country can be subjugated by force forever but in this case no country has been subjugated. The truth is there was never a time in history when Kashmir was not a part of India. So there is no question of subjugation. Here the fight is between the quranic ideologies of grubbing land from non-Muslim countries and progressive forces. Well the quarnic ideologies idid work wonderfully in the past. I cannot deny that peace loving Hindus were summarily defeated by Islamic hordes. But now the patients of the quite religion has eroded and the signs are everywhere. Sleeping lion has awaken after 1100 years. You are beaten everywhere. In last 50 years not a single war is won by a Muslim country against a non-muslim country. You mend your ways otherwise we are watching nd we are counting. Lord Krishna tolerated 100 abuses. We have tolerated even more. Our tolerance has limit. No more indian territory for Muslims to satisfy their real estate grabbing quranic ideology.You are holding the world at ransom thinking people are scared of you. The past is history. Let me tell you the future. If your fanatics continues world will slip into 3rd world war. Then all bets will be off. You will not be able to hide behind U.N rules while carrying out terrorist activities. But ll bets will be off in 3rd world war. In india you will not only lose Kashmir but will be forced to convert back to hinduism. You push your luck too much and it will only bring destruction.

  • Anonymous

    The Hindu fascists who posted on this thread shamelessly accused Christians for the political upheaval in North East India.The United Liberation Front of Asom is a militant group from Assam, among many other such groups in North-East India…It claims that among the various problems that people of Assam are confronting, the problem of national identity is the most basic, and therefore it seeks to represent “independent minded struggling peoples” irrespective of race, tribe, caste, religion and nationality…The Government of India (GOI) has classified it as a terrorist organization and had banned it under the Unlawful Activities (Prevention) Act in 1990. Concurrently, GOI started a military offensive against it, named Operation Bajrang lead by the Indian Army. The operation continues at present under the Unified Command Structure.The Government of India accuses ULFA of maintaining links with the Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI) of *Pakistan* and the DGFI of *Bangladesh*, and waging a proxy war on their behalf against India.On the other hand Christians are persecuted.A Christian from Assam said: “Hindu fanatics used the … tribal communities to incite communal divide among different faiths among the … communities. In most of the cases, Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangh (RSS) worked behind the …tribal communities to act against tribal Christians.” “It has been the same strategy among all tribal communities in India where RSS uses tribal and scheduled caste communities to attack Christian and other minority religious communities. In most of the cases, when the police register complaints, only the members of tribal and scheduled caste communities are made to suffer,” he said.

  • Anonymous

    To think Deb Chatterjee is one such Machiavellian militant fascist Hindu who incites hatred against Christians in India while living in luxury and enjoying his life in a Christian majority country in the West. Yuck!

  • ender

    I’m a white anglosaxon cracker from Florida that was raised and lives under the Christian tyranny of neocon local gov’t and the Bush Christian Terrorist state nationally.I know the history of the Cults of Abraham and they are they have all become a enemy to human existance. The best of Judeo Christian ethics and thought came from the Democracy and Phylosophy of Greece and Rome. everything that came our of the middle east should be caged up there and never released on the civilized world.And since you lack imagination to come up with a handle, you don’t even know which anonymous fool I’m posting to.

  • Anonymous

    Ender, maybe you should live in India for a few years and experience first hand the life of the tribals there before glorifying militant fascist Hinduism. The Christian neocons will feel like angels in comparison and the US like paradise.If you are talking about a religion you know only in the abstract, then you’d better inform yourself a little more before posting support based on ignorance.

  • Anonymous

    Ender, you say you know about the Abrahamic faiths and then you claim everything came from Greece and Rome. The Bible was written by Jews you know. The Greeks and Romans gave up their paganism and adopted Christianity easily enough.

  • Anonymous

    Ender, whether you like it or not Judaism and Christianity came from the Middle East, Israel being located in ME.OK the Catholic Church adopted a lot of Greek philosophy into its theology, and adopted some European pagan customs. But the Bible remains a work entirely of Jews as well as the religion of Christianity and Judaism.

  • Deb Chatterjee

    Aamir:US Congressman Tom Tancredo (R-CO) stated that USA would consider nuking Makkah.Though extreme, I think that would be the “Judgement Day”. USA needs to control Pakistan and subsequently slowly start to destroy Islam by weakening its organs of Jihad. Inshallah that will happen.

  • Aamir

    You may take the name of Ender, Aditya or Chatter, you are the same coward and a hate monger, whose mission is to talk cheap about Islam. Let me tell you ignorant Hindu, you may be literate but living in this country has not changed you a bit, you continue to be uneducated and full of hate. Persons like you ultimately self destroy themselves. Mosques or even for that matter Makkah are symbols of a great faith which is real and not a myth. Even if you destroy the symbolsthe great faith will remain and Islam will continue to be the answer for wandering people like you who have not found real purpose of their life so far. You are a perfect example of a person who actually God gave a purpose of spreading hate and do false propaganda and what my faith calls men like you is “IBLIS” meaning Satan. Also Mr. Iblis let me tell you Quran is the only book that has not changed (like our other books of faith like Bible and Torah) a word since it came in to existence, because there are millions who remember each and every word and meaning of it by heart. You along with all infidels of the world may wish to destroy all the symbols of Islam, but it is to stay there even beyond eternity. Our book is not a sexy story book full of Kathas that how sita mata apharan happened and how monkeys liberated her as was pointed out by one of the bloggers. I can simply understand your frustration which has affected your personal life also. You need some purpose and I would encourage you to be a champion of interfaith dialogue rather than a hate monger. It certainly is going to destroy you. Try to use this time to educate people about your mythical faith rather than spreading lies about other faiths. Also people have asked you so many questions about the purpose of Hinduism as religion in the present day world. Help some of us in understanding this rather than harping the same crap what he said and she said about Islam.

  • Aamir

    Hey poor Aditya,

  • Anonymous

    The Qur’an speaks well of the relationship it has with former books (the Torah and the Gospel) and attributes their similarities to their unique origin and saying all of them have been revealed by the one God.TorahThe Qur’an retells stories of many of the people and events recounted in Jewish and Christian sacred books (Tanakh, Bible) and devotional literature (Apocrypha, Midrash), although it differs in many details.Torah (The First Five Books of the Old Testament)Adam, are mentioned in the Qur’an as prophets of God. Muslims believe the common elements or resemblances between the Bible and other Jewish and Christian writings and Islamic dispensations is due to their common divine source, and that the original Christian or Jewish texts were authentic divine revelations given to prophets.Muslims believe that those texts were neglected, corrupted (tahrif) or altered in time by the Jews and Christians and have been replaced by God’s final and perfect revelation, which is the Qur’an. However, many Jews and Christians[who?] believe that the historical biblical archaeological record refutes this assertion, because the Dead Sea Scrolls (the Tanakh and other Jewish writings which predate the origin of the Qur’an) have been fully translated, validating the authenticity of the Greek Septuagint.Influence of Christian apocrypha‎The Diatessaron, are all alleged to have been sources that the author/authors drew on when creating the Qur’an. The Diatessaron especially may have led to the misconception in the Qur’an that the Christian Gospel is one text. However this is strongly refuted by Muslim scholars, who maintain that the Qur’an is the divine word of God without any interpolation, and the similarities exist only due to the one source…

  • Anonymous

    There are only 2.3% Christians in India, i.e. about 25 million in a country with a population of 1.1 *billion*. Christians are found mostly in three southern states – Kerala, Tamil Nad & Karnataka – and also in Goa, cities of Mumbai (Bombay) & Kolkotta (Calcutta). Politically motivated militant Hindu fascists, with a newly invented “India-for-Hindus-only” are creating havoc in India by persecuting non-Hindus, especially Christians and Muslims. Working behind the scenes and from from away, fueling hatred, intolerance and violence are also the likes of Deb Chatterjee, who is a non-practicing meat eating Brahmin, who attended a Catholic school in Kolkotta and lives in the US as an American citizen, a country with a Christian majority. Although India is a secular democracy, the likes of Deb Chatterjee would actively support those in India who are pushing for a fascist, militant, Hindu theocracy, where only the higher caste Hindus would have a say, keeping the lower caste Hindus trapped in their social milieu as high caste Hindus have done for millennia whenever they wielded power over others.

  • Anonymous

    Deb Chatterjee:Militant Hindu fascism is NO different from militant Islam. You are as bigoted and intolerant as any Muslim extremist and there is nothing laudable about the political goals of the party you support in India.The pot shouldn’t call the kettle black. So *clean up your own act* and do real justice to the religion you claim to represent, *before* preaching to Muslims.Do some interfaith work in India, which would do more to promote peace in India than propagation of hatred and militant intolerance.

  • Anonymous

    Deb Chatterjee:Of course, Islam wants the world to become Muslim. That’s Allah mian’s grand plan. To that end, the Islamic Shariah has been put in place by the mullahs and Muhammad. Thus, Islam and Secularism are diametrical odds, and I just cannot fathom how Eboo Patel supports secular governance himself being a Muslim.Islam is a primitive and barbaric religion simply because it is an intolerant theocracy, as evidenced by Shafiuddin’s remarks against secularism._________________________________________Sorry, I meant to delete this part of your post.Islam should not be painted in the black and white fashion you have done. Militant fascist Hinduism has no nobler motives than political power and oppression of non-Hindus and Hindus of lower castes.Extremism tends to be intolerant and divisive and violent, not just in Islam but in Hinduism too.Most Muslims would not like to be ruled by Sharia Law.

  • Anonymous

    Deb Chatterjee:Indian Muslims are an integral part of India. They are Indians first and Islam happens to be the religion they practice. You’ll have to get used to that idea whether you like it or not because it is the truth.

  • Anonymous

    Deb Chatterjee:Since Indian democracy is already secular with equal freedom for all religions, why the need for a Hindu political party? If Hindu governance is secular, then why the need to call for secular? The motive is clear, a Hindu form of theocracy secular, in which high caste Hindus get to retain all the power.Indians who practice Islam are still Indians. So why this stuff and nonsense about “if Muslims want to live in India?” The truth is really, if Indians want to practice any religion other than Hinduism in a Hindu “secular” theocracy.Hinduism has been around for four thousand years. So no Hindu can claim it hasn’t had the opportunity to prove its governing abilities. India happens to be the birthplace of three other religions and has had other religions for a long time.Hindu “secular” theocracy is beneficial only to Hindus of the higher castes. That is proven by the fact that the vast majority of lower castes (until independence when the quota system was worked into the Indian Constitution) remained trapped in poverty and illiteracy for as long as Hinduism has been around. Christianity has done nothing but good in India. Social equality and literacy rates are high were Christians abound.Islam brought a lot high Arabian culture to North India, which is now so integrated with Hinduism in the Indian society, that the roots are almost forgotten.Hindus have much more to gain by treating Indian Muslims as their own, than putting up a fight with invented reasons for political reason. Islam as a religion allows for just retaliation, just like Judaism, so no Hindu should imagine that Indian Muslims would take violence done to them lying down. Passive resistance and just war has been worked into Christianity to deal with violation of human rights. Mahatma Gandhi set an example of how evil could be overcome by non-violent means.You need to reflect about that, instead of inciting division, intolerance, hatred and violence for political gain. You seem not to have learned anything useful politically in the US. Is inciting hatred and violence the way things work in the US? How sad that you can’t propagate the best of US politics in India.

  • Anonymous

    Deb Chatterjee:”One can state that BJP is calling for a Hindu state, and Hindutva and hence is branded “militant facist Hindu political party” and all the blah, blah.My rebuttal to the above (unfair) allegation by the pseudo-secularists is that “militant Hinduism” is definitely a phenomenon of the past 80 years, and is a response to Muslim fundamentalism. The “Hindutva” is a legitimate “weapon” for pro-Hindu political parties like the BJP. This “Hindutva” concept is just absent as a doctrinal status in any Hindu religious scripture. It is a purely political invention…”For many years now, the militant Hindu fascists have been systematically targeting Christians wherever it can, so it is an outright lie to claim that the militant form of Hinduism is a response to Muslim extremism and targets only religious extremists. The Hindu militants attacked innocent Muslims in Gujrat first. The Muslim violence came as retaliation, not as provocation.I repeat, militant extremists in Hinduism behave no differently from Muslim extremists who are the first to incite violence.Clean up your act of militant thinking before criticizing the Muslims. In India at least it can be rightly said that they are being targeted unfairly by Hindu militants.

  • Anonymous

    Indian Muslims are a minority group and they have not exercised any hegemony over Hindus in two and half centuries.If they are demanding imposition of Sharia Law for members of their own religion, which most Indian Muslims don’t want anyway, it is not about exercising hegemony over Hindus.The militant Hindu fascist party on the other hand is about exercising hegemony over all non-Hindus, including lower caste Hindus.India has suffered under such Hindu hegemony long enough. There is no need for a repeat performance by setting the backwards by two and a half thousand years. Remember Buddhism and Jainism were founded as an answer to Hindu “secular” hegemony.

  • Anonymous

    It is true India is an ancient and great civilization. But it is equally true that it has left out completely sections of its own society – the lower castes.The world goes forwards, not backwards.Social equality/upward social mobility that everyone has an opportunity to strive for and human rights for all sections of the society is where mankind is at in its level of consciousness.Militant Hindu fascists would set the Indian clock back to the days when only upper caste Hindus got to enjoy the fruits of the Indian culture and its achievements. Lower castes merely provided slave labor.

  • George

    Aey hindu debu,

  • wamiq

    Hindustane kuto jan lo Kashmir tumhare moot hay. Kashmir banega pakistan , Dapum chatter mehra agar toheya aitraz chu , tele wano aes kashmir banega pakistan boto rostey batnen saan

  • Anonymous

    Deb Chatterjee:Quoting Anonymous: “The Hindu militants attacked innocent Muslims in Gujrat first. The Muslim violence came as retaliation, not as provocation.”DC: “First you are lying about the incident, and second you are arrogant about the slaughter.First, Muslim mobs attacked and burnt down the train compartment (Sabarmati Express) that was coming with the “pracharaks” (RSS preachers). That was the provocation from the Muslims.”______________________________________________You get me wrong. I do *not* condone violence. Killing is killing, whether a Muslim does it or a Hindu. Both need to be brought to justice and punished for taking innocent lives. As it turns out the Godra Train incident, and the death of 58 Hindus on February 27, 2002, involved a small group of Hindus and Muslims which began with an altercation. Why did the Hindus not seek out the guilty Muslims and bring them to justice? Is not that the way a “secular” Hindu governance is supposed to function? Instead innocent groups of Muslims were targeted in 151 towns and 993 villages from 28 Feb to mid June 2002.”Hundreds of mosques and other Muslim shrines were damaged or destroyed and makeshift Hindu temples were installed in their place in some cases. In Ahmedabad, the dargah of the Sufi saint-poet Wali Gujarati in Shahibaug and the 16th century Gumte Masjid mosque in Isanpur were destroyed. The Muhafiz Khan Masjid at Gheekanta was ransacked. Police records list 298 dargahs, 205 mosques, 17 temples and three churches as damaged in the months of March and April…According to an official estimate, 1044 people were killed in the violence – 790 Muslims and 254 Hindus including those killed in the Godhra train fire. Another 223 people were reported missing, 2,548 injured, 919 women widowed and 606 children orphaned.Unofficial estimates put the death toll closer to 2000, with Muslims forming a high proportion of those killed…”______________________________________________The point is: do militant Hindu fascists want to convert India into a violent country that has no place for non-Hindus?Militant Hindu fascists have been targeting innocent Christians for no reason at all, except a fascist ideology.India already has a secular Constitution. There is no need for militant Hindu fascists to abolish it and set up their own version of “secular.” If the violence in Gujarat is any indication of how violence is brought to justice, (read: by killing innocent people who had nothing to do with the original incident), then it is a kind of Hindu “secular” India doesn’t need.

  • Anonymous

    George, my guess is that you are probably a Muslim pretending to be a Christian. If you are a Muslim, you disgrace all Muslims (btw Sharia Law for all its limitations, is tough on Muslims who indulge in sexual misconduct), if you are a Christian, you disgrace all Christians.I repeat, check out a (?homosexual, since your posts are addressed to a male) sex chat website instead of posting filth on this forum.

  • Anonymous

    wamiq:”Kashmir banega pakistan ,… kashmir banega pakistan…”________________________________________That is the whole point: Kashmir will become part of Pakistan, and the border of India with Pakistan will come deeper into Indian territory.Is that what Kashmiris want? To say that Kashmiri Muslims cannot get along with Indian Muslims is not true. I say because of first hand experience, because of knowing and sharing a room for a while with a Kashmiri Muslim who got along equally well with Hindus and Christians in India.

  • Anonymous

    One hundred and forty million Muslims in India live scattered among Hindus and Christians in India and live at peace with them. Why should Kashmiri Muslims not see that as proof of Hindu acceptance and the religious diversity of India? (Militant Hindu fascists like Deb Chatterjee are luckily the exception not the rule among Hindus.)

  • Anonymous

    There is nothing in *real* Hinduism which would leave room for militant fascism. In fact because a Hindu understands that there is only one God who is worshipped under different names by different people, they find it easiest to accept all religions as equal. All the great Hindu spiritual masters have given that testimony.In Hinduism, if the Bhagavad Gita is to be taken as the greatest spritual guide, a Hindu is obliged to fight even his own family, teachers, etc in conquering evil. So any real Hindu who strives to put militant Hindu fascists in their place and curb the division and violence they are spreading in India for political reasons, they would be acting in accordance with the highest Hindu principles.Deb Chatterjee is at least honest in admitting the purely political motive behind the militant Hindu fascism.

  • Aamir

    This is for George and Wamiq,

  • Deb Chatterjee

    Aamir wrote:”I would also ask Mr. Chatterjee not to spread religious hatred.”Opposing Shariah law in Kashmir is “spreading religious hatred” ? Thus if one opposes the slogan of the separatist Hurriyat (Geelani) faction, “Kashmir mein Rahena Hai, Allah-ho-Akbar Kahena hai” (translation: if one lives in Kashmir then s/he has to chant “Allah-ho-Akbar”, meaning that s/he has to be a Muslim); this clearly indicates that Kashmir has to project a Muslim identity in governance (Shariah) because of the majority residents being Muslims there. If opposing installing a theocracy (Islamic Shariah) is the same as spreading religious hatred, then I am stomped. Is opposing a message (doctrine) the same as opposing the messenger ? I know that Prophet Muhammad had killed those who had opposed his policies and views. But I am not a Muslim and hence don’t accept such traditions, and would oppose such tribal primitivism. On the contrary, Islam preaches religious hatred for other religions and the followers. That is why Kashmir is bogusly claimed as “Kashmiriyat” which actually means implementation of Shariah law. Why are you not being honest in admitting that ?

  • Aamir

    Deb,

  • George

    Hey phallic worshiper Deb you did not answer any of my questions regarding your Sita mata. Ravana Had sita in lanka for years. What was he doing with her when her husband was seeking help from monkeys. So Ravana is a devil and I really believe that he must have ravaged sita’s chastity with his Phallus. I wonder why dont you worship his phallus too as it has enjoyed a lot in your sita matas Vag***. Please answer my question in simple and plain words. Did Ravana Fu**** sita. Dr Chatterjee in his Book wrote “Oh Hindu you awake” has clearly written that sita used to enjoy ravana and Ram could never satisfy her .Please enlighten us how ravan sed to enjoy your mother sita

  • Keth

    George, Is it true that these people worship phallus. I dont believe so. No sane person will worship phallus. Hey Deb can you tell me whether george is telling a truth. Man you guys must be something. Wooo “Phallus GOD” quite interesting. Do you guys have “Vagina GOD” also

  • George

    Hey you stinking ugly indian, you didnot answer keith.