Christian Right Left Behind, for Now

Returns are still coming in, but the Christian Right’s early reaction to Barack Obama’s election as president ranges from gracious … Continued

Returns are still coming in, but the Christian Right’s early reaction to Barack Obama’s election as president ranges from gracious to courteous to deeply concerned. It’s also worth noting that the reactions do not include conciliation or surrender.

In fact, if you’re wondering whether Tuesday’s sweeping Democratic victory marked the end of the Christian Right’s influence in national electoral politics, Eagle Forum president Phyllis Schlafly offered this brief history lesson:

“The conservative movement will rise again, just as it re-rose in 1964 and nominated a little-known senator named Barry Goldwater, and rose again with the nomination and election of Ronald Reagan in 1980, and then, after (Bill) Clinton’s victory rose again and elected a big majority of Republican congressmen in 1994.”

Schlafly laid the blame for Obama’s victory squarely in the lap of President Bush. “The disarray of the conservative movement is the fault of George W. Bush and his advisor Karl Rove,” Schlafly told CNSNews.com. “I guess it turned out that he was not a conservative after all. He was a big government, big spending, globalist, ‘New World Order’-type of Republican

Other Christian Right leaders were more gracious in defeat.

In his blog this morning, R. Albert Mohler Jr., president of Southern Baptist Theological Seminary, acknowledged that the “margin of victory and sense of a shift in the political landscape point to greater disappointments ahead” for conservative Christian voters. But, “Evangelical Christians face another challenge with the election of Sen. Obama, and a failure to rise to this challenge will bring disrepute upon the Gospel, as well as upon ourselves. There must be absolutely no denial of the legitimacy of President-Elect Obama’s election and no failure to accord this new President the respect and honor due to anyone elected to that high office. Failure in this responsibility is disobedience to a clear biblical command.”

Hugh Hewitt, conservative blogger and broadcaster, was equally generous: “It is an extraordinary thing, an achievement that will be recognized a hundred years hence, that Barack Obama has won the White House,” Hewitt said in his blog. “Even those of us who opposed him, and who will no doubt be opposed to many of his policy objectives over the next four years, must pause and say congratulations on an improbable, amazing rise.”

Like Schlafly, Tony Perkins, president of the Family Research Council pinned Tuesday’s failures on particular politicians, not principles. “This was not a rejection of conservative values,” but a rejection of Republicans who had abandoned conservative principles, Perkins said. “Clearly, our work is cut out for us.”

Officials at James Dobson’s Focus on the Family seem to agree. They chose to focus on the success of Tuesday’s anti-gay marriage ballot initiatives in Arizona, California and Florida. “A tremendous night for the cause of righteousness,” senior vice president Tom Minnery said on Focus’s CitizenLink webcast.

Southern Baptist leader Richard Land told Christianity Today that “Evangelicals did their part. The exit polling is showing that there’s no drop-off among evangelicals. The 2006 elections showed us that evangelicals can’t win elections by themselves. If indeed the three marriage initiatives win, it will show that the values voters were not the ones who lost this election. If evangelicals are sad about the election, I’m going to say, ‘Do you have faith in God? Is your faith in God or in government?'”

But Mohler sees the challenge in another way: “Will the Republican Party decide that conservative Christians are just too troublesome for the party and see the pro-life movement as a liability? There is the real danger that the Republicans, stung by this defeat, will adopt a libertarian approach to divisive moral issues and show conservative Christians the door.”

So who’s right? Mohler or Perkins? Was Tuesday’s Republican defeat a rejection of the party’s “conservative Christian” politics or of “Republicans who had abandoned conservative principles.”?

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  • Paganplace

    “Officials at James Dobson’s Focus on the Family seem to agree. They chose to focus on the success of Tuesday’s anti-gay marriage ballot initiatives in Arizona, California and Florida. “A tremendous night for the cause of righteousness,” senior vice president Tom Minnery said on Focus’s CitizenLink webcast.”‘Well, at least we hurt some innocent gay people,’ Focus on the Family crowed, ‘In spite of all this hope, we’ve at least been able to dash *some* hopes for the future, for the time being.’Or so you may as well say.

  • Carstonio

    The quotes from Land, Mohler and Dobson suggest a misguided devotion to moral absolutism. There are very few absolutes in human life, and insisting on absolutes in government policy is not only unworkable but also dangerous. I would like to think that the Republican defeat represents a sensible rejection of that attitude.

  • sparrow4

    Yes- no taking responsibility for their mistakes. No questioning of why they didn’t win. Always an excuse. Always a pointed finger and always an attempt to hurt others. What a pig Dobson is. I wouldn’t use his name in the same sentence with “morals.” He has no concept.

  • billy8

    It’s about f’ing time.

  • billy8

    “I guess it turned out that he was not a conservative after all. He was a big government, big spending, globalist, ‘New World Order’-type of Republican”When will this sort of lunacy stop? His tax cuts weren’t conservative? The nads off style of environmental regulations? The Supreme Court picks? The list goes on and on…

  • orthodoxheathen

    “So who’s right? Mohler or Perkins? Was Tuesday’s Republican defeat a rejection of the party’s “conservative Christian” politics or of “Republicans who had abandoned conservative principles.”?”Mohler and Perkins are both right. Christian politics are outmoded and are gradually being dumped by mainstream Republicans. “Conservative principles” of small government, checks and balances, and fiscal discipline have NOTHING to do with Christianity, and those principles have been abandoned by the party of George W. Bush. Whether change comes in the form of Obama or a more intelligently evolved Republican Party (or both), change is needed.

  • TomfromNJ1

    It is not that simple. Yes, people rejected Bush. But McCain said he was not to be confused with Bush. Whether the so-called “Christian Right” wants to believe it or not, perhaps the majority are realizing that the problem of the Conservatives is precisely worshiping a false god. They speak as if there was some divinity attached to “the market.” They speak of this hallowed idol of theirs as if it were an animate object. There is nothing Christian about the market, laissez-faire capitalism, or any of the other false deities at whose altars they blindly worship. As long as they try to pretend that Christianity says something about economic theory, they are prostituting religion. But, since it helps them stay rich, they make this compromise. As I see it the Bible has NOTHING to do with the conservative principles and so although they may see some material gain from time to time, truly religious people will only flourish in a spiritual way when they learn to “Love one another as I have loved you” and that “It is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to get into heaven.”

  • Athena4

    You know… whenever you point one finger, three are pointing back at you. Schafly, Dobson, et al are all pointing their fingers at Bush. They need to take a good look at themselves and ask why there was a total repudiation of their divide-and-smear politics. They don’t have to look further than North Carolina, where Liddy Dole lost the election when she pulled out that “Godless” ad on Kay Hagen – who is an elder in her Church and a Sunday School teacher. Personally, if Dobson, Schlafly, and their ilk slink off into oblivion, I will celebrate just as hard as I did last night.

  • bevjims1

    “Schlafly laid the blame for Obama’s victory squarely in the lap of President Bush.”Ha! Any Christian looking at what happened over the last few months and years cannot doubt that God had a hand in this. The soaring gas prices due to, what, speculation? No one really understands why gas rose so high. A Christian would see the hand of God at work getting Americans mad at the current administration and oil industry.How about Katrina? A bulls eye into New Orleans exposing this administration’s ineptness and the republican’s lack of caring. You think God had nothing to do with that?Bush attacks Iraq convinced there is WMD, then no WMD, not one. A huge mistake by Bush or God’s hand letting us see just how stupid Bush really is?Larry Craig, a conservative republican who railed against homosexuality is caught. Consider that Larry has probably been at this most of his adult life, but he gets caught now. Bad luck or God setting the republican up?Then the one thing that made this a perfect storm, the financial crisis. We knew the housing bubble existed years ago. We knew republicans had done everything they could to dismantle regulation and oversight of lending. We knew that Greenspan did all he could to create an artificial environment of cheap money while dollars flowed overseas to China as our debt grew. In other words this crisis was so obvious people were screaming about it like the CIA was screaming about a large terrorist attack in the summer of 2001. But this administration did noting in both cases.Its plain to me. God’s will exposed the stupidity, laziness, corruption and negligence of this administration just before the election for all of America to see. Now why would God have done this? To make McCain lose? I doubt it. God must love McCain. God had enough chances to take his soul but kept him alive, got him a pretty wife with lots of money and too many houses to count. No, it was not to make McCain lose, it was to open America’s eyes to the real republican party so Americans could use their free will to chose God’s favorite son, Obama, and favorite party, the democrats.So Schlafly had better be careful when saying that republicans will come back with another disasterous presidential candidate. God’s power is unlimited and this time he just exposed the republicans for the negligent, self serving imbeciles they are. Next time it might be a flood or fire. If I were Schlafly I’d get out of politics and become a nun, cloistered preferably, and get out of God’s way so he can make America the land of opportunity he designed it to be and was proud of creating before the republicans came along and ruined it.

  • bevjims1

    kert1 wrote: “If the court suddenly gave me a “right” that I had never had before in the history of my country or state, I would probably be a little shocked. I would also not be shocked if people did not appreciate the court legislating from the bench and created a law to overturn the ruling.”In this land rights are not given by the government. Rights are given to us by God. Government regulates those rights. Our Constitution also says that laws regulating those rights must be applied equally. When we speak of marriage here we are not speaking of marriage in a church but are speaking of the marriage license, which is a legal document that ascribes many conditions and benefits onto those, who as a couple, obtain the license.The “gay marriage” argument is whether those benefits couples obtain with the license can be restricted to only heterosexual couples. By doing so the equal protection clause is being violated. A heterosexual couple can obtain a license but a homosexual couple cannot. It is akin to heterosexual couples being allowed on a bus and homosexual couples denied or told to sit in the back or face arrest. It is the law being applied unequally.No one is interested in changing the church’s view of marriage or the marriages churches perform. NO ONE! But when laws are not applied equally, Americans should care. A marriage license should be available to any couple and with it the benefits that can be had. Too bad there are those in America who do not mind receiving benefits denied to others. I thought those days were over, evidently not.

  • kert1

    BEVJIM,You see the trap you are falling into with this argument?The truth is every person has a right to marry within our definition and law. The problem is you are trying to redefine marriage to something it has never been in our country.I challenge you this. Name one person (I guess you actually need 2) who was denied marriage by our government who was following the current marriage law. I have little doubt you can’t.What people are trying to do is redefine Marriage law to mean something different. States and the federal government have every right to not change to the law or to create new laws protecting this.

  • DanielintheLionsDen

    kert1The flaw in your arguemnt is that there are millions of gay people who want to get married, but there are not millions of people who want to be married in triples, or quadrangles, and there are not millions of people who want to marry their pets, and there are not millions of people who want to marry their children. So why do you bring up these absurd examples? You are straying from the point that millions of gay people want to get married, and that should not threaten your marriage. You and your spouse are responsible for the state of your own marriage, and if it is not going well, then do not scape goat gay people.

  • kszimmerman

    From Phyllis Schlafly: “I guess it turned out that he was not a conservative after all. He was a big government, big spending, globalist, ‘New World Order’-type of Republican.”I guess? The one thing that people responded to about President Bush – people of all stripes, including, yes, Democrats – is that he never was anything different than what he said he was. He sought to expand executive power, he pushed for more government spending, and following 9/11 he favored expansive global intervention, to put it gently. The number of conservatives I heard complain at the time – when they were winning – I could count on one hand.But now they’ve found religion, I guess. Now that their brand is in tatters and they need someone to pin it on, George Bush is certainly handy. But the truth is he did exactly what Republicans wanted, and the policies they have long loudly favored were a colossal failure. No scapegoat in the world could carry all that blame. Schlafly’s Colombo-style approach to conservatism, thirty-plus years in, fools exactly no one.

  • onestring

    The religio-facist hypocrites like Dobson and Schlafly who broke Jesus’ commandment that it is a sin to bear false witness against a Christian – yet promoted the slander and lies about PERESIDENT Obama’s Christian faith – THESE people are WHY republicans are inept, willfully ignorant, xenophobic, hypocritical, criminal, and unethical….and they do it ALLLLLLLL wrapped in a bible and flag.DISGUSTING.REAL CHRISTIANS VOTED FOR PRESIDENT OBAMA.

  • twoidhd

    Barry Goldwater couldn’t stand the religious right and stated so many times. As usual, Phyllis Schlafly is full of herself and is lying like a dog.

  • marcedward1

    kert1 writesI didn’t know pets and children could sign contracts.”I am still encouraged that this country is a center right country”But you’ve described Obama in other posts as ‘the most liberal Senator’, and ‘a socialist’ – by your logic America is extremely liberal and socialistic.

  • cagorham2007

    TRUE Christians focus on the need to preach the gospel of Christ to others in LOVE and kindness and not turn the discussion into conservative vs. liberal argument.I’m just trying to figure out how calling Obama every name in the book (terrorist, socialist, etc.) is showing love and compassion? Second, THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS A CHRISTIAN CONSERVATIVE according to the Bible. It’s a man-made label used to divide and conquer.

  • BBpd

    There’s a problem with Phyllis Schlafly’s history of Republican loss and redemption from Goldwater onwards:None of those events brought significant policy victories for the Religious Right. Certainly the GOP politicians talked a good game, but what did the conservative Religious Right actually gain from GOP successes?The history of this country is an unending march towards liberalism on social issues. It’s been slowed or even stopped temporarily, but the overall trend is unmistakable. Greater freedom and acceptance of diverse groups over time.It’s fascinating to watch conservatives crow over the victory of an African-American, as if conservatives played any role in Civil Rights other than to fight them every step of the way. Forty years from now, conservatives will be cheering the successes of the gay doesn’t count. Ridiculous.

  • cthehill

    Shhhh! Don’t tell Dobson and his cronies, but God hates them. Like he told me the other day: “They’re about like the Pharisees and Sadducees.”As for myself, I’ll continue to hang around with gays and tax-collectors, Muslims and Samaritans, prostitutes and Democrats. Hell, they are a lot more generous, loving and humble than just about any bunch of Bible thumpers.It’s not too hard to be more Christ-like than Dobson, not that the Lord is really keeping score.

  • readerny

    Could it be that conservative values are not just conservative or the province of conservatives? Liberals, after all, have families, work hard, want a bright future. I was flummoxed when I heard a conservative pundit mention “hard work” as a conservative value. It’s an American value, not just conservative. Compassion has always been a liberal value, and conservatives tried to co-opt it, too. I am a white, suburban Democratic-voting woman who’s been married for 23 years and consider myself moderate. I have tired of being talked down to by the right (including the Eagle Forum, Focus on the Family, etc) about how my “side” is constantly wrong. Guess what? Your time has passed. People are mad as hell and they’re not going to take it anymore. They see through the condescension and the ideology that serves a small group of people. Good luck with that comeback. You’re going to need lots of it.

  • michael_ds

    It’s very simple, actually. The religious Right didn’t buy the Republican Party because it was virtuous; they bought it because it was for sale. Many of the actions of the GOP over the last eight years were counterintuitive to what most believers understand to be the teachings of Christ. Yet, they vote GOP again and again and again. They are either deaf, dumb, and blind, complete hypocrites, or are just plain stupid.

  • ana1ana2

    “The conservative movement will rise again, just as it re-rose…and elected a big majority of Republican congressmen in 1994.”Yes, and look how well that turned out for the country.Of course, properly governing is not your concern; your goal is to ram your (dubious) morality down the throats of others.Possibly a few days of self-reflection are in order before you resume beating your chest and baying at the moon.

  • kert1

    Daniel,The point I made was that people are trying to redefine marriage. Redefining marriage would essentially open the floodgates to anyone who wants to get married to essentilly anything. Probably some scenerios are a little farfetched but anything could be approved by the courts.You really have to be following the arguement of the court and the people who feel marriage is a right to see the point. They basically say, I should be able to get married because other people do. Then they redefine marriage to get what they want. The way these courts define marriage, it could be made into any contract between consenting things. I agree the arguement really breaks down at this point.Many people don’t see that redefining marriage between any 2 people is wrong, but they start to see it when marriage becomes a free-for-all. It’s best to look at all the consequences.

  • ATLMichael

    Certainly congratulations are in order for Barack Obama and the Democrats for the historic victory they achieved. But let’s look at the facts…Obama won only 53% of the popular vote in an election where the Republicans were blamed for the war in Iraq and the collapse of the housing market, and where John McCain was tied to a President with a 17% approval rating. If 53% is the best the Democrats can do when the Republicans are viewed at their worst, then not only will the Christian right rise again, I’d say it hasn’t even sank.

  • Alex511

    fr kert1:>…By the way, I don’t believe marriage is a right, such as things contained in the Bill of Rights (since marriage isn’t in their). Not everyone can get married. You have to have a willing spouse and follow the rules of the land.Two non-attached, legal adults should indeed have the RIGHT to be married. That’s all we are asking. Contact your local PFLAG chapter for help here.

  • Paganus

    The religious conservatives will emerge victorious from the coming conservative civil war. Social “moderates” like Romney are doomed. According to recent polls, only one third of Republicans support him as the prospective leader of the party; Palin and Huckabee each attract ca 20%; the remaining quarter will follow whoever emerges victorious. You do the math.Huckabee’s vision of an evangelical Christian movement more engaged with problems like poverty and the environment would give the GOP a better chance at avoiding irrelevance, but I don’t think he will be able to “convert” such a large group of Americans trained to be concerned solely with themselves and their own personal salvation. Far more likely is a Republican party resembling the Palin rallies at the end of the campaign: the nationalist, racist, wingnut rump. They will be able to pull between 33-40 percent max. If the party develops along these lines, it will join the Federalists and Whigs in the dustbin of conservative American political parties.

  • fredguff

    Kirt,The slippery slope arguments that so many use when arguing against same-sex marriage are bogus. Laws preventing Children, animals and the developmentaly disabled from entering into contracts are already on the books.If two sound of mind, law-abiding adults of the same sex want to enjoy the same benefits, rights and privilages that society bestows on opposite sex couples who enter into marriage contracts then they should be able to—There is no rational reason why they shouldn’t.

  • atacoma

    What really should concern the Christian right is the number of young voters who voted against Prop 8 in california.Your influence is declining, not increasing. The right is losing the culture wars. You’ve basically lost on abortion (look at South Dakota). Washington state just approved a law to allow doctors to prescribe lethal medicine for terminally ill patients.So you won on gay marriage. The majority of people in this country approve Civil unions, and the majority of young people support gay marriage. They are not going to change their mind as they get older.Liberalism in the long run always wins.

  • DaveNY

    Hello,I sincerely hope that this country can come together to find common ground, especially on issues such as abortion and gay marriage that have divided so many. Prior to my comments below, I feel I should disclose that I am a democratic voter training to be a scientist. I am also straight, agnostic, and have at times crossed the line from “merely angry” to “infuriated” at hypocritical instances of the Christian right’s agendum. That being said, here goes:Economy: I think most voters this year agreed that Democrats are better stewards of the economy for the middle and lower classes. I also do buy into the arguments on the left that the Republicans have unfairly used culture warriors to mask their true loyalties to big business and Milton Friedman’s idea of the free market. To ensure that the Dems do not ever let Republicans or other parties obfuscate the economic principles with culture war rhetoric, I believe the Dems NEED TO MOVE TO THE CENTER ON CULTURAL ISSUES.Abortion: I was impressed and pleased that the Democratic party has modified their platform to include the language “safe, legal, and rare.” It’s safe in medical clinics, and it’s still legal, so how about devoting federal funding to counseling agencies, adoption agencies, and to sex education? If moderates see that the Dems truly believe that abortion should be rare, then this may be less of a divisive issue in the future.Gay Marriage: What about civil unions for HOMOsexual and HETEROsexual couples granted by the state that guarantee the rights of a civil union? Let’s allow marriage to be a term for a union taking place in a religious institution, and if religious institutions disapprove of gay marriage or atheist/agnostic marriages, then so be it. Perhaps some religious types will feel this preserves their own covenant with their god and will not be distracted from the economic argument.Just some thoughts…my overall point is that from the standpoint of fairness, the progressive economic argument is hard to lose in a fair fight. The Republican genius has been to make the fight unfair.

  • DanielintheLionsDen

    Conservative religious people believe that the Earth is only 6,000 years old. Is a scientific explanation going to change their minds? Not likely. How can you argue with ignorance? To dispel such ignorance requires a lot more than just a scientific explanation. It requires a complex background of intellectual study and comprehension, which is impossible to convey in any brief discussion or debate. And can you really blame these people for their ignorance? Ignorance is the lack of knowledge, just like poverty is the lack of wealth. I might feel sorry for such people, and I might be politely respectful of their ignorant beliefs. But inwardly, I do not respect these beliefs. And so it goes, with other aspects of religion, such as human sexuality, homosexuality, suffering and sin, earthquakes, storms, and the vengeance of God. It is easy to be angry at these people and develop a simmering resentment towards them, that might even grow into a gradual hatred. But why? They are just ignorant.

  • jmeroAUS

    Conservative xians are like blown light bulbs.But they know how to amass money, because cynical greed is their real driving force.Religio-fascism at its worst!

  • cfeher

    Oh no Phyllis Schafley, it couldn’t be that people finally realize your ideas are unworkable and tragic when applied to the real world could it? It has to be that George Bush was a traitor and unworthy to be called a conservative. It’s always somebody else’s or God’s fault.I’m from the St Louis area and I can’t believe that anybody takes that hypocrite seriously. How’s your gay son by the way?

  • LiberalGayCatholicFaithful

    I find it revealing that in California the Catholic/Mormon/RingWing religious extremists found it more important to attack and defeat (with lies and hysteria) Prop 8, the gay marriage initiative, while Prop 4, requiring parental notification for teenage abortion failed. How unchristian to attack love between two human beings and fail their, so-called, real pro-life agenda. Perhaps abortion has gotten too boring for them whilst whipping up antifay hysteria. These people have perverted bibilcal gospel-based values of love and compassion.

  • Vekx

    “The truth is every person has a right to marry within our definition and law.”What are these definitions? You should go look them up before you say they are being changed.

  • jamesfoto

    NOT ROVE BUT RAVEN CAUSED THE LOSSYou cannot peddle vicious, poisonous hatred under the guise of religion and expect to attract thoughtful, loving people. On the contrary, you will only attract what you promote and admire. How many adherents to the faith do you suppose the now infamous televised comments of Pat Robertson gained, when he urged the United States to kill President Hugo Chavez of Venezuela?What impression do you suppose comments like this (and there are sadly, too many examples) left on the Christians of the World?The “Christian right” forgets that the majority of Christians take seriously the message of the Prince of Peace to love your neighbor as you love yourself – for if you cannot love your neighbor (as Christ most assuredly does) then truly, you do not love God.Political capital differs little from financial capital, money. The hawkers of hatred, separation and exclusion are no different from those who change money at the Temple gate. Christ has no political party. He tells no one what or who to vote for because that is separation from the love of God, which is death. The principal goal of old Scratch is to separate us from the love of God. Christians should not help him and in fact, Beelzebub needs no help, he takes care of his own.Which brings us to the point – to raven, that is; to devour like a ravenous beast the message of Christ and spew forth hatred, intolerance, separation, discrimination, and contempt is simply to show how very unlike Christ you really are. Now that you have permitted Beelzebub to place his own among you, it will take years of dedication, determination and love to bring them back to the true meaning of Christ.

  • DanielintheLionsDen

    Gay marriage is a grass roots movement involving millions of people. Immediatley, where ever gay marriage has been recognized, the local municipal offices are deluged with hundreds of applications for gay marriage, until some politcal authority pulls the plug. Does anyone think that would happen if polygamous marriage were suddenly legalized? Does anyone think that polygamous trios would be lining up around the block in any city in America to get married if they were suddenly allowed to do so? or to marry their cats? or to marry their children? This is not a rhetorical question. It has an answer. The answer is “no.” In fact, the question itself, and the argument it promotes is insulting to gay people, and is just one more example of a mean-spirited and hateful homophobia.This dysfunction needs to be addressed. If a constitutional amendment is passed to ban gay marriage, that will not be the end of it. It will create even more turmoil and distress untill the amendment is repealed, like the fool-hearty eighteenth amendment. There are millions of gay people in America. In the past they have been mute. Now, more and more of them are finding a voice. Merely speaking up for oneself is the “problem.” And it is a “problem” that will not go away.

  • kxrc

    The reactionary right republicans (RRR) forgot that “Right now three things remain: faith, hope, and love. But the greatest of these is love.” (1 Cor 13:13 ISB) which means while their victory against gay marriage is only temporary.Meanwhile, the RRR can rage against science, civil rights, the constitution, keynes, and free choice all they want but the great tide of human history tends to move towards equality and freedom. And those who would repress equality and freedom are ALWAYS damned by their heirs.And if you think you will be the exception, think again.

  • DanielintheLionsDen

    I am a little disturbed that the subject of polygamy keeps coming up whenever gay marriage is debated. There is a big, big difference between gay marriage and polygamous marriage. Gay people are abundant; everybody knows one, everybody is related to one. Yet there is a societal and an institutional pretense that gay people do not exist. All gay people want, is to be recognized as existing and living, with the same rights that heterosexual people have. The movement for gay marriage is a grassroots movement, invovling millions of people, who only want to pursue their own happiness.

  • whitetrash4u

    No, these religio-zombies will not quit and they find themselves blameless for contributing to the Republican failure. At least Dracula could be killed with a stake through the heart.

  • bevjims1

    kert1 wrote: “The point I made was that people are trying to redefine marriage.”Marriage means many things. There is marriage as defined by a religion. In some religions the woman is considered property, in others as an equal. The terms of the marriage are defined by the religion with some requiring doweries, etc, but I don’t hear you complaining that the Hindus are redefining marriage.Then there is legal marriage, a contract recognized by the state. The two are very different things. Jews, Christians, Hindus, and Muslims all obtain marriage licenses even though their religious marriages are very different. No one is asking that a religion would have to marry a gay couple if they did not consider that part of their definition of marriage. But a legal contract that is defined by and recognized by the state is something that cannot be limited to people based on color, ethnicity or sexual orientation. To do so would be discriminatory and violates the equal protection clause. That is why judges are ordering states to allow gays to be married, because not allowing gays to enter into a contract that heterosexuals are allowed to enter into, a contract recognized by the state that provides state benefits, violates equal protection. The simplest example is taxes. Couples who hold a marriage license get a tax benefit in most states. A gay couple who sign an identical legal contract would not be allowed that tax benefit since their contract is not recognized by the state. Inheritance, medical authority and other benefits come from this license and those benefits are denied to a significant part of the population and that denial is based solely on sexual preference. And I dare you to show how allowing gays to enter into a marriage contract recognized by the state affects you in any adverse way.kert1 wrote: “The point I made was that people are trying to redefine marriage.”No, just who can enter into the contractual marriage license offered by the state.kert1 wrote: “Redefining marriage would essentially open the floodgates to anyone who wants to get married to essentilly anything.”No, it would affect anyone who could legally enter into a contract. Most of your silly examples would not apply.kert1 wrote: “Probably some scenerios are a little farfetched but anything could be approved by the courts.”Look, the courts don’t “approve” things. They look at the law and determine if it is being applied equally as the Constitution requires. They then see the marriage license and note that only a man and a woman have been allowed by the state to enter into it. And, with that license comes benefits from the state and its laws, benefits that are denied to any couple except a man and woman. That is discriminatory on its face. Again, the reason for allowing gays to enter into this state defined contract is equal protection. And gays can show harm by being denied what heterosexuals are allowed. There is the harm of having to pay higher taxes. There is the harm of not inheriting the spouses assets upon death. There is the harm of not being allowed to make medical decisions for a spouse. The list goes on. But I dare you to come up with one harm it causes you.kert1 wrote: “You really have to be following the arguement of the court and the people who feel marriage is a right to see the point.”Its not an issue of rights. Its an issue of equal protection. When a heterosexual couple gets a marriage license, they have only entered into a contract recognized by the state. That is no more a right than you having a right to get a mortgage. Instead it is a contract that provides, by law, benefits to those who sign the contract. Denying that to people based on sexual orientation is the issue. In some states it use to be denied based on color. I hope you can understand that being an issue of equal protection. Now just take the next step to sexual orientation and you begin to see the real issue.kert1 wrote: “They basically say, I should be able to get married because other people do. Then they redefine marriage to get what they want. The way these courts define marriage, it could be made into any contract between consenting things.”Yes, any “things” that can enter into a contract. Could you give actual examples of these “things” that can legally sign contracts that would be a problem with you, besides adult gays?The argument for denying gays the right to enter into the contract called a marriage license violates equal protection. I assume you would not want a law that provides fire service only for heterosexuals, or police service only for heterosexuals. Why then are you for inheritence rights only for heterosexuals and rights to medical decisions only for heterosexuals and tax breaks only for heterosexuals?kert1 wrote: “Many people don’t see that redefining marriage between any 2 people is wrong, but they start to see it when marriage becomes a free-for-all. It’s best to look at all the consequences.”Yes, let look at those consequences you keep aluding to but not stating very much. The consequences you mentioned earlier would not be possible since a marriage license is a contract between adults and is defined as between two individuals who consent to enter into it. Can you come up with some *real* consequences? I have already described many adverse consequences that now exist due to gays being denied the ability to freely enter into the contract. Can you come up with one adverse consequence that affects you?

  • kert1

    I repeat again marriage is not a right. Rights are something that are granted and can’t be taken away. No one can force the government to marry them. They have to follow the rules. It involves finding a spouse and agreeing to terms of marriage (whatever they may be). Everyone is allowed to be marry under law but I have never heard of it as a right. Where do you find marriage defined as a right. I understand that I’m not going to change people’s minds about gay marriage on this site. My point was to show that marriage laws are equal to all people. No person is treated differently under the current law. There is no discrimination. If people want it different they must change the law. The people of California have stood for traditional marriage by adopting Prop 8.

  • bjlopez1130

    I’m going to say one more thing . God will not harm us . He wants us to prosper and be in good health. You must know that he loves us and has our best interest at heart. God is using President Elect Obama. Just the nature of him being elected speaks volumes to the power and glory of God. Think an African American being elected to the Presidency of the United States. That is no one but God. He did it in a way that unified many people and many voters from all different walks of life. That is God!

  • hardrain

    When our Founders established “one nation under God”, they didn’t specify who’s God they were referring to. This nation was established so that we may practice the freedom to worship how we see fit, in opposition to the tyranny of state-established religious cultures. Unfortunately, many of our primarily Christian right culture conservatives wish to amalgamate faith and doctrine with public policy. This, in essence, points towards the same tyranny of state-sponsored religious dominance of politics that our forefathers were fleeing from in the first place. Let’s leave matters of faith for the personal world of private worship, and matters of public policy in the arena of public consensus and ethical governance. To employ political dominance as a tool to advance one’s own religious dogma as public policy belies a failure of the persuasion of one’s argument. We’re in a pitched battle with Taliban culture warriors in Afghanistan who wish to dominate public policy with their narrow ultra-conservative agenda. We judge their behavior as anti-democratic and un-American. Are we failing to recognize our own reflection when we pass in front of the mirror?

  • hchiba

    if, if (fictional – no evidence of any real physical existence) Jesus … and I also say if … ever to return as he apparently (did) not promise, he would neither be “christian” or US “christian right”. Jesus, the visitor, would disdain the christian right-wing & its red-neck rigidity as he a newly-fossilized Pharisee group, as well as all other pro-establishment, right-wing coteries in the US. Finally, he would have to come to terms with the fact that “his” is a minority religion… in decline world-wide.So say we all.

  • EarlC

    As a Southern Baptist, baptised over 55 years ago, I have heard discourging words from fellow “religious right” Christians. Being one of the few moderates in my denomination and one who feels that my denomination deserted me when it decided to get political, I have already heard about racial slurs being spewed forth by some of these devout Christians. Apparently, attending church every week does not reduce the anti-black feelings among many. When you dig deep into the rhetoric and the faith issues of the religious right, you will soon learn about the deep-seated racial prejudice that exists. I know too many in my own geographical area who refuse to vote for a black man. This may sound harsh, but they tell me even when they know my support for Obama and the Democratic Party. In fact, I have been a Democrat for a long time. I have found some of the noise coming out of Focus on the Family and James Dobson to be disturbing as it relates to religious issues. Of the two presidential candidates, Dobson could not find any kind words to offer on Obama’s behalf, This is curious since James Dobson can find few families any better at modeling the Christian norm than Obama’s family. No sexual scandals. Nothing in Obama’s family. As the religious right keeps going farther and farther to the right, they will find themselves falling off the cliff. It is time to refocus on the teachings of Jesus.

  • kert1

    HIHGBA,

  • ecglotfelty

    To Schlafly, Dobson, Mohler, Perkins, Robertson, Parshall, Hannity, Limbaugh, and every other right-wing talk tank who’s looking for someone to blame:There are more issues out there to consider than abortion and gay marriage. Even if you were to elect another conservative president, things will not change. Eight years of W didn’t do anything to overturn Roe v Wade.If you want someone or something to blame, let me offer a quote that was worn by most of the House and Senate Republicans at Bill Clinton’s first State of the Union address in 1993:”It’s the economy, stupid.”

  • alakshak

    Phyllis Schlafly was writing scathing, vituperative derogation and condemnation regarding women who “chose to work”. She is working now – and heading Eagle Forum.That is called “hypocrisy”, folks.

  • klaud6

    I think that problems of America only before them. The president Obama a lot promised, but whether He will fill this.

  • ian807

    KSZIMMERMAN wrote: “He (Bush) was a big government, big spending, globalist, ‘New World Order’-type of Republican”He was also an evangelical, born-again Christian.Obvious implication? Being “born-again” and having a personal relationship with Jesus doesn’t do much for your ability to govern. In fact, evidence would indicate the opposite. Remember Carter?It’s time, past time, to render unto Caesar that which is Caeser’s, like government. You need to elect the best politician, not the best Christian. They’re two different things.

  • Arminius

    EarlC,Thanks for your comments. I am Southern, but Episcopal, pretty liberal. What you say has the ring of truth as I understand it. Prejudice is still there, and is totally abhorrent.But there is one Baptist, who left the Southern Baptist organization, that I have profound respect for. Jimmy Carter. A man who has devoted his entire post-presidential life to the work of Jesus – feeding the hungry, housing the poor, trying to make peace. Contrast Mr Carter with Bush, who the rabid religious right like to call ‘Christian’. Bush’s publicly stated post-presidential goals are cutting brush on his ‘ranch’ and making money by doing the speech circuit. Now, then, some of you rabid Bush supporters out there please tell me which one is the real Christian.

  • ecglotfelty

    Let me add one more thought: One of the most telling books I’ve read was “Blinded by Might” by Cal Thomas and Ed Dobson. Both men are Conservative Christians and helped co-found the Moral Majority with James Falwell. After working in politics for awhile, both men realized that the way to influence the world was not by trying to gain power or by political might, but more by living the life that Jesus has called all of us to do. If you find this book, read it because it is very revealing about how most of the Christian right has tried to operate from the past 30-35 years.We need to follow the words of Jesus if we are to change the world for the better. He didn’t say, “Let us all be lobbyists on Capitol Hill,” or “Let’s form a coalition to help a family values candidate get elected so that we can push the agenda on the rest of society.” Actually he said, “Let your light shine before men, that they may see your good deeds and praise your Father in heaven.” (Matt. 5:16, NIV)

  • jimfilyaw

    what’s really breath taking is the presumption of these maggots. they really believe that they are speaking for the almighty! in other words, they are constitutionally incapable of conceiving that a liberal or (god forbid!) a gay person might be just as righteous as they are. the ill, the down trodden, the needy of this world don’t merit a thought, but mention gun control, the environment, progressive taxation and they will tell you that they damn sure know the mind of god. amazing!

  • walker1

    The NeoConMen under Rove developed a specific plan for dealing with the Christian conservatives.A temptation of $8 billion dollars for control of social programs under the guise of Religious Charity. Something called the White House Office of Faith-Based and Community Initiatives program.As David Kuo points out NeoConMen were: “cynically hijacking the faith-based initiatives idea for electoral gain,” ignoring issues such as poverty, and limiting faith-based grants to organizations that are “politically friendly to the administration.”For those who became part of the NeoConMen team 8 billion dollars was promised but only about 21 million was ever paid out.In their quest for earthly powers over abortion, gay marriage, and a nationallised religion, the religious conservatives forgot all morality.The temptation worked.The main people the NeoConMen gave money to? You guessed it they were people like Rev. Ted Haggard who was there to run the NeoConMen owned church and win key electoral races. Of course he was more interested in paying 200 NeoCon dollars a go by cash in envelopes to give a gay rent boy oral sex and snort methamphetamine.The conservative christians were NeoConned.Suckers!

  • kert1

    ECGLOTFELTY,

  • tbrucia

    It’s sad that Christian and Right seem to be synonymous… What happened to the Christian LEFT? I think of ‘judge not that ye be judged not,’ ‘turn the other cheek’, ‘the meek shall inherit the earth’, ‘love thy neighbor as thyself’, ‘do unto others as you would have them do unto you’, and all of the dozens and dozens of comment Jesus Christ made about hypocrites, not to mention his comments about the ‘religious leaders’ of his time (the Pharisees)…. This ain’t my momma’s Christianity. It’s more of a fun house caricature of my mom’s simple Roman Catholic faith — and I’m not laughing!

  • annjell

    All the talk about Christian Conservatives – sometime I wonder, when it comes to politics, who is their God, is it Reagan?I switched to Dem from GOP due to McCain-Palin’s rallies spewing so much racial hatred-division. I have awakened. I will never associate myself with the GOP party again!I had long talks with my friends that had supported the GOP and convinced them by way of sending emails of published articles, etc. of the way the GOP really feel about blacks. Guess what, they voted for Obama while the others stayed home.The GOP is now behaving the way they did when Clinton was elected. They are refusing to work with Obama. This group needs to understand that they will be surrounded by people NOT LIKE THEM throughout their lives. I ask again, are they a cult?Now, after the election, there’s alot of talk about people not wanting to support the GOP. While some don’t necessarily agree with democrats, they feel it is a time to now grow the independent parties.I expect the Independent Parties to replace the GOP. The GOP has alot to work on, first of all, they need to work on themselves!!!! This holier than thou behavior, atttitude, you must be WHITE to be like us, we will destroy anyone who gets in our way, wow, I won’t stoop to their level.All I can say is, people are starting to look at the GOP in a different light.

  • youngj1

    What I’m still left wondering after 28 years of “conservative” influence on American politics is what are these folks trying to CONSERVE? The moniker conservative has no meaning for me because President Reagan did not conserve when it came to running up deficits. President GHW Bush did not conserve when it came to increasing taxes. Rep. Newt Gingrich didn’t conserve when it came to earmarks for political favorites. And let’s not forget those conservatives who could not stay out of Ms. Shaivo’s life. Finally we have had President GW Bush who spent frivolously, attempted to undermine the Justice Dept, sent men and women to war under false pretense and who, with the help of Conservatives like Phil Graham deregulated the bottom out of the financial sector. Nothing conserved there either. So again I asked what do “Conservatives” want to conserve and why is it not just good for “conservatives” but good for the nation as a whole? Any takers??????

  • MPatalinjug

    Yonkers, New YorkThose who have jumped to the conclusion that with conservative Republican presidential candidate John McCain’s humiliating defeat last November 4, the Christian right is finished for good, are sadly mistaken.The Christian right is alive and well. It has suffered only a temporary setback–and going by the political history of the United States where political parties, lay religious aggrupations or organizations, etc. go through a cycle of ups and downs, setbacks and resurgence, the Christian right will certainly rise and be resurgent again.But that’s not all. The Christian right has long-term plans to make it immune and invulnerable to that cycle of ups and downs, setbacks and resurgtence. And it has found a way of doing it.Rev. Herry Falwell set up his Liberty University for the deliberate purpose of turning out graduates–tens upon tens of thousands of them–who would be thoroughly indoctrinated or “brainwashed” on conservative evangelical Christian values.Rev. Falwell’s ultimate objective is for Liberty University alumni who are thus brainwashed to infiltrate, in the manner of a “Fifth Column,” all levels of the American government–from village to township to city to state and right on up to the Federal level–and all the major branches of government–Executive, Legislative and Judicial, where these exist.There is a conspiratorial and messianic objective, and that is to effectively hold and control the levers of political power in the United States completely and thoroughly, to such an extent that to all practical intents and purposes the United States government will be converted from a DE JURE SECULAR DEMOCRACY under a Constitution, to a DE FACTO THEOCRACY under the Christian Bible.In the event, there will be no need for the Christian right to violate the U.S. ConstitutionEvem as these lines are written, termites are already busily gnawing at the edifice of the freedoms and the liberty of the American people which are enshrined in the Bill of Rights of the Constitution.Mariano Patalinjug

  • jaysit

    The problem with people like Schlafly, a bigot and a deranged hypocrite if there ever was one, is that while the patron saint of the modern GOP, Barry Goldwater embraced civil rights, gay rights, and separation of church and state, Schlafly and her fellow luddites continued to rot in their medieval worldview. Schlafly cites Goldwater to validate her beliefs, but Goldwater reviled the Schlaflys and the religious right. To quote Goldwater:”When you say “radical right” today, I think of these moneymaking ventures by fellows like Pat Robertson and others who are trying to take the Republican party and make a religious organization out of it. If that ever happens, kiss politics goodbye.”A few years before he died, he chastised the GOP right wing saying: “Do not associate my name with anything you do. You are extremists, and you’ve hurt the Republican party much more than the Democrats have.”Today’s GOP has nothing in common with Goldwater. Its been taken over by crazed, Bible thumping, anti-science, anti-intellectualism luddites who tap into the basest biases of their mindless followers and promote ignorance of the worst kind.

  • datpto

    The best thing about this election was that it revealed once again the essential nature of the religious right. It is racist and anti-Semitic, and rotten to the core. These are the same people who used to be members of the Klan. “Faith” is simply the latest club (water cannon?) they’ve grabbed hold of to try to restore white Christian supremacy. As I’ve said several times recently — assuming H_ll exists, I have no doubt they’re going there . . . I just find it hard to wait!

  • wizard2

    “How about Katrina? You think God had nothing to do with that?”God killed thousands of people to expose the Republicans’ incompetence? Doesn’t seem very omnipotent.And this is minor compared to the paranoia over gays displayed in this thread. I know several gay people. None of them are threatening. Their relationship does not affect my heterosexual, monagamous marriage.In contrast, the extremist religious right viewpoint insists on being threatening, hateful, and vindictive. Their perspective, even though incompatible with the teachings of Christ, does not affect my relationship with God. It does, however, compel me to protect my child from the toxic ignorance of organized religion and its refusal to face the truth when it conflicts with dogma.”This was not a rejection of conservative values.”Yes it was, especially of the right-wing variety. We reject the intolerance, the elitism, the greed, the false prophets and the liars who have become the face of American religion and the new definition of conservatism, which seems to be composed of extremists with no willingness to conserve anything at all; and every intention of dictating more and more of our lives.We’re tired of hearing who we should hate, who we should despise, based on evidence devoid of logic and impervious to reason. We’re tired of hearing endless Bible quotes taken out of context and used to support bizarre theories which have no relation to the connection being made, often involving the Apocalypse, which has been rescheduled more times than Guns & Roses’ “Chinese Democracy.”I’m going with the 10 Commandments and “Love thy neighbor,” with no exceptions for gays, blacks, Catholics, Jews or anything else. That’s how I want my child to live. I don’t want her to learn to hate.When I hear an extremist — the late Jerry Falwell, Rod Parsley, Pat Robertson, Jim Bakker, Jim Jones, David Koresh — God tells me to keep them away from my child.You view Obama’s victory as a loss for religion. Obama has been to church faithfully for 25 years, until he was forced to separate himself earlier this year, because the preacher was no longer acceptable, not because of any change in his belief system. John McCain did not support the evangelical, ultra conservative causes until it was politically advantageous to do so, AFTER the right destroyed him in 2000 for being too mavericky.Obama is a religious man; McCain pandered to the extremists. The churches backed McCain. Obama won.If you’re willing to consider God as the cause of Katrina, but you’re going to Obama’s victory aside as some sort of temporary obstacle that can be overcome, then I don’t believe you have grasped the significance of what has occurred.God was out on Tuesday night. There was hope and happiness in the air. A feeling of unity and the accomplishment of really getting closer to erasing the unnecessary stigma of being black or latino or a devotee of the flying spaghetti monster. It is no longer impossible for a black man to be elected president. The immense global joy and relief that we did not elect another right-wing Republican was tangible.If you viewed that moment as a defeat…The church talks of God, but no longer seems capable of receiving incoming calls. They may have switched service providers.

  • creatia52

    I have been appalled by the Religious Right and their influence in the Republican Party and therefore government itself for years. Dobson is nothing but a smug, sanctimoniuos hate monger who is more concerned with his own position of influence and power with the Christian Right than with Christianity. The RR and its leaders have done more harm to Christianity than the supposed “evil” liberals ever could. Evangelicals have started rejecting their intolerece and hard line and I hope this continues.

  • EnemyOfTheState

    I’m not sure why the ‘religious right’ hasn’t completely abandoned the GOP. The pattern in every election is that the party panders to Evangelicals by dangling out the hope that just one of their issues would be taken off the back burner, and then they are shoved aside.

  • coloradodog

    Hate mongering “Orthodox Christians” like Perkins, Dobson, Robertson et. al. are finally politically irrelevant – at least for four years anyway.America has rejected their plans for their own intolerant private white theocracy.Thank God.

  • Arminius

    Another curious thing about the blindness of the religious right in their rush to set up Goldwater as one of their ‘saints’. Goldwater’s daughter had an abortion back in the late 1950’s. Her father not only approved this, but he helped arrange it.I never really agreed with Goldwater politically, but I recognized him as a truly good and decent man. I honor his memory.

  • washpost18

    Who cares what Phyllis Schlafly has to say about anything unless you’re looking to write a comedy piece? She and son Andy are complete wackjobs roughly on par with Fred Phelps. To give her some aura of credibility by quoting her is just sad.

  • speaksoftly

    Christians rights have not been left behind rather the spotlight is no longer on them, because they used the media and vice versa to make their cause known. Until the next election, they will be alive and screaming rather than listening. This is one of the reason I am contemplating of moving to another party. Rather than preaching at the fundamentals of the Republican party, the extreme rights has screamed their Godly values; yet they lack any of the substance to even be considered Christians. I can see why the new Millenium generation has shun us, because rather than listen we are constantly talking down on people and it serves us right, because now no one is listening to us. Unfortuantely, this will only cause the extreme rights to scream even louder and ultimately look no different then the terrorists they reject.

  • sunnie2

    As a conservative, I have really have no problem and really think it is great that the United States has its first black President. This is a great historical time. However, I am not pleased with President Obama’s police on abortion or gay rights. Also, if you look into the history of Republican and Democratic presidencies during my lifetime,when our nation the “United States” was attacked, that it was the Republican presidents that stood up to the agressors and actually did something beyond words. My hope is that President Obama will be that type of leader and not give in to the thought that he must apease the pacifist.

  • spidermean2

    For a while I lose my respect for black Americans when they voted as a block for Obama who is pro-abortion and pro gay marriage. All that changed when I found out that they voted as a block to overturn gay marriage in California. Maybe Obama will be a fine president if he listens more to these conservative black americans. Also, Im deeply worried that Obama is cutting the Defence Budget allotted for high tech weapons. He should understand that high technology weapons make America ahead over other countries militarily. The balance of power would greatly shift once this techological superiority is compromised.What republicans should do is LISTEN more to these black conservative Americans, and make policies together with them. The fact that they are conservative means they prefer the republican Christian values but are voting democratic because of their better social policies.It seems like the Republicans are forgetting that it was Abraham Lincoln who built their party. As we all know, Lincoln was the savior of black Americans. Republicans should go back to its roots. Be the champion of conservative black Americans’ concerns.

  • marcedward1

    Oh yes, the problem is that Republicans weren’t conservative enough! Please keep thinking that. Please purge your party of all those who aren’t ‘pure enough’. Good luck!

  • Alex511

    fr the article:>…Officials at James Dobson’s Focus on the Family seem to agree. They chose to focus on the success of Tuesday’s anti-gay marriage ballot initiatives in Arizona, California and Florida. “A tremendous night for the cause of righteousness,” senior vice president Tom Minnery said on Focus’s CitizenLink webcast…Sounds more like self-righteousness, to me. It’s really too bad that jimmy can’t keep his big nose out of other people’s business.

  • lewes17266

    Senator McCain selected Sarah Palin to please the Religious Right and he lost. I am hoping this marks the end of the powermongering Right’s stronghold on democracy. I am hoping faithfuls will begin to see how they have been used and manipulated by their scandalmongering leaders. They cry out about abortion yet do little to save unborn lives. They preach hate and teach prejudice and do nothing to love those “sinners” they blame for causing tornadoes and terrorist attacks. Their imaginary angry and vengeful Republican God did not scare their obedient, trusting followers this time. Senator McCain should have stayed true to himself. He bowed down to the “agents of intolerance” with his pick and I am so thankful he lost. I hope our lawmakers and politicians have learned a lesson about associating with those glaring frauds and pandering to them for votes. Fraud is a crime in this country. The famous holymen are frauds and should not have any influence in the process of lawmaking and elections. They know the mind of God so it is impossible for any of them to have respectful debate. They are legalists. They are an embarrassment to people whose faith is genuine. I am hoping and praying our media and lawmakers and politicians will stop giving them credibility. I am praying this election will be a turning point for Christians who for years have believed the lie that the Republican party was the party of God. The Religious Right leaders say the most unloving things, ignoring scripture for its heart and enlarging its laws and turning them into political issues and causing such division and strife. I am always dumbfounded when our lawmakers and politicians go to such obvious frauds for endorsement. I am so happy with the outcome of this election, and proud. Senator McCain turned me from red to blue. HOW could any candidate for the Presidency of the United States have pandered to John Hagee after he said God sent Katrina to New Orleans because of a homosexual parade? God, save us all when our lawmakers are influenced by hatemongering idiots.

  • Ecoclimber

    I agree that it was Republicans abandoning conservative principles and the lack of the the compassionate conservative social agenda that was spoken of by Newt Gingrich.

  • mokey2

    What concerns me is that the Religious Right will never give up until they have subverted our Constitution and instituted a literal interpretation of one group’s religious book. If this seems somehow farfetched, consider that in the current administration there are 150 graduates of ‘Liberty University’ actively working to promote their agenda. And that doesn’t count those on local boards pushing for creationism in schools.The price we pay for freedom is eternal vigilance. People say that could never happen here.. but so did Germany. Obama’s election has hurt the Right- they will nurse their wounds and come back even more vicious. It’s up to the moderate members of the Christian faith to fully repudiate the actions of the far righters who have such a stranglehold on our government. Otherwise all our religious (and other) freedoms we cherish are in jeopardy.But I have hope that Obama’s willingness to listen to all sides respectfully and call for a better style of politics will make some of these people wake up and take notice. I hope that he can build the kind of consensus that we need to face the problems we have today.

  • diebrucke

    sunnie2 : ________________________________________________FDR, the greatest liberal democrat, certainly responded when this country was attacked. The moderate democrat, Harry S. Truman, dropped two bombs to end WWII. The liberal LBJ responded to that pesky NVA Gulf of Tonkin “attack.” Bill Clinton sent a missile into a pharmaceutical company in Sudan after the USS Cole was attacked. Exactly when has a democrat shown indecision when attacked?

  • asoders22

    I wish the Christian Right would leave Jesus and Christianity out of their agenda of harshness, intolerance and narrow-mindedness.

  • AnthonyGenX

    Im a Evangelical Christian and I was really happy with Obama’s victory. He’s not perfect, but he studied, trained and prepared for the office. He shows more commitment and dedication than a certain Alaskan I know who struggles with primary school geography.Get real. If you aspire to high office then prepare yourself. String a coherent sentence together. Learn how to spell your vegetables. Come on Evangelicals. Lets get our act together, and in the meantime we should give our new President our 100% support and prayers.

  • pookiecat

    Thank goodness, and not God, that this board will be taken down in January, 2009. The Christian right hasn’t been right about anything on any issue. When your “W” leaves, you can go too. Please pick up a gun, if you have the guts to do so, and go to the middle and fight your mirror image, Islamic fundamentalists, exterminate each other, and leave the rest of us in peace. Your 15 minutes of fame is over … and take that gutless, racist slob Dobson with you. Hopefully, he’ll step on a land mine.

  • sophie2

    First, I am really pleased by the graciousness from some leaders. It surprises me, frankly, and I think that must be because I misunderstood some of these leaders. However, a couple of points for thinking religious conservatives. Those of you who want to blame Bush for your problems, remember you voted for him. And you voted for him even after his shortcomings were glaringly obvious. You voted for him simply because he adhered to your one or two single issues. Nothing else mattered right? The failure of Bush is the failure of single issue voting. Second, I think its important to come to terms with Palin. She was clueless. Religious voters inability to see that reminded me of the suspension of reason they adopt on religious matters. I don’t think there is anything wrong with faith applied to religious doctrine, but don’t apply it to politicians you don’t even know.

  • khriss101

    I think their major problem is that they are so fixated on only two issues –abortion and gay marriage. Not only are they fixated on them, but they are obsessed with trying to make the whole country abide by their beliefs. Personally, I am pro-life and don’t really agree with gay marriage. Therefore, I won’t have an abortion or marry a woman. But I have no right to tell you what moral decisions you can and cannot make. If you choose to have an abortion, that is your decision. And if you choose to marry someone of the same gender, again your decision, not mine. For the record, I am a Christian. I just don’t believe I have the right to make everyone else abide by my personal convictions.

  • rb-freedom-for-all

    It was foretold in the OT. Read Democracy 11:4 about the 3 stooges of the apocalypse: Bush, Cheney, Rove.

  • irae

    “Will the Republican Party decide that conservative Christians are just too troublesome for the party and see the pro-life movement as a liability? There is the real danger that the Republicans, stung by this defeat, will adopt a libertarian approach to divisive moral issues and show conservative Christians the door.”From Moher’s lips to the ‘ears’ of the Flying Spaghetti Monster. So let it be written. So let it be done. The conflation of religion and politics has indisputably tainted both in recent American history. Please, believers, attempt to influence others by your example rather than repeatedly attempting to legislate morality.

  • spidermean2

    These stupid liberals think Conservative Evangelicals like wars. We dislike wars that is why we try to stop potential trouble makers before they become big and unstoppable.Do you think there will be no wars in the near future with a Democratic president and Congress?Think again idiots. Think again coz it’s coming sooner than you will expect. A much larger war, more than your idiot brains can handle.So big that you would desire to be monkeys again, if you idiot thinks they are your long lost relatives.

  • kert1

    I think we are just seeing the same thing we see every few years. People are tired of the same old politicians and wanted someone new. These Republicans have let us down, along with many democrats also. It was just that people were more inclined to blame Republicans since they have been in power more.I know that Bush is going to be the scapegoat in all of this and he definitely deserved some blame. We do need to give him credit for protecting our country over the last 7 years and restoring our military to where it should be. I don’t think many other candidates would have been as successful. He did stand for many conservative social issues but he ended up not being a financial conservative. I don’t think we can blame him for the miltary spending but the rest we can. He just wasn’t willing to say no to more spending, and these bailout bills with trillions of dollars of spending will haunt us. I understand why people have gotten frustrated and voted for a change.The truth is that the current Republicans don’t represent conservatism well, and that is why they aren’t being supported. Democrats had a liberal they could believe in, Republicans had someone they could tolerate, and the election was sill pretty close. If evangelicals are going to get people elected we need to have people we believe in not just tolerate. We need true conservatives to stand up and show their true colors and not pander to the current fads. There has been too much of that and it is no surprise we have elected a liberal majority.I am still encouraged that this country is a center right country. We had marriage protection passed in all 3 states that had it on the ballot. So, when the people have a chance to vote for something conservative, they generally do. Even in California, which is about as liberal as they get. We just don’t elect people that say they are conservative, when they are not.I think evangelicals and conservatives have to get out of the business of endorsing candidates and start creating them. I understand that you have to vote for who you think is best but we can do more if we start from the beginning. Lets not just take what we are given but find good people to lead us and make them our candidates. Real change starts with individuals and that’s where we need to get our leaders. We should have a good opportunity if the country gets to see a truly liberal government over the next few years. The pendulum always swings back the other way and that is the opportunity to show was conservatism really is.

  • Alex511

    fr kert1:>…We had marriage protection passed in all 3 states that had it on the ballot. So, when the people have a chance to vote for something conservative, they generally do. Even in California, which is about as liberal as they get.No, we had marriage INEQUALITY browbeaten into the minds of those misguided sheeple who swallowed “dr” dobson’s lies about GLBTs, and subsequently they fell for the trash prop 8. How would YOU feel if YOUR marriage was suddenly declared null and void just because YOU are in either a heterosexual or interracial marriage? That’s how thousands of GLBT’s feel right now.

  • bevjims1

    diebrucke wrote: “Bill Clinton sent a missile into a pharmaceutical company in Sudan after the USS Cole was attacked.”Actually it was in retaliation for the bombing of U.S. embassies in eastern Africa. And don’t forget the 80 or so cruise missles Clinton sent into Afganistan’s Al Qaida camps as well. And considering the Cole, it happened as Clinton was being impeached and only had a few months left in office, and the bombers were not identified until Bush was in office. When Bush was told it was Al Qaida that had bombed the Cole did he decide to engage Al Qaida? No, he did nothing, which emboldened bin Laden for the 911 attack.Republicans can talk the talk but cannot walk the walk. They never could because they, as a party, are uninterested in governing. They are a purely opposition party which, when out of power, fight the democrat’s agenda, and when in power continue to fight the democrat’s agenda. They believe in government so small it cannot function or does not exist. Few republicans cared that the government did not help New Orleans. Republicas made excuses for the lack of armor for our troops. They waved their hands when it became obvious there were no post-war plans. And when the blame could not be explained away, they blamed their mess on Clinton. What babies.The lack of regulation on Wall Street was by design. Bush even said they got TOO drunk on Wall Street, like it was ok for them to get a little drunk on your money, just not too drunk. And if you’re worried about your 401K imagine where your privitized social security would be if republicans had gotten their way and given it to Wall Street. That’s the republican view of financial security. Security for those on Wall Street at the expense of America. Can’t wait for 2010 to vote the rest of them out and put democrats in their place who want to govern and make America stronger and better, as democrats have done in the past. Once again we have to have a democrat clean up after a republican. FDR had to clean up Hoover’s mess. Carter had to clean up Nixon’s mess, Clinton had to clean up Reagan’s mess and his deficits. Now Obama will have to clean up after Bush. Just when are the American people going to stop hiring people from a party that is by its very nature unqualified to govern?

  • journeyer58

    Every person I have talked to says this, “this is the reverse of what we have had for the past eight years, people were tired of Republican’s running the show and chose to give the reins of power to the Democrats.” With this statement I wholeheartedly disagree. To the utmost of my being, I do not share this view.

  • kert1

    Alex,Actually from what I understand the Media Liberals spent much more that those for the amentment. Given what Hollywood generally stands for and it’s resources, they spent a whole lot. Yet the people passed the measure handily. It sounds like you are just upset because you lost.Well, you can’t really nullify marriage, and since that has never been done, I will answer the question another way. If the court suddenly gave me a “right” that I had never had before in the history of my country or state, I would probably be a little shocked. I would also not be shocked if people did not appreciate the court legislating from the bench and created a law to overturn the ruling.By the way, I don’t believe marriage is a right, such as things contained in the Bill of Rights (since marriage isn’t in their). Not everyone can get married. You have to have a willing spouse and follow the rules of the land.

  • WildWest1

    As the extremist Christians revolutionary leaders issue false conciliatory propaganda to accept Obama as there president, don’t be fooled.Their ultimate goal is still alive, waging war to remake society and government, to make the U.S. Constitution conform to a strict, literal interpretation of Biblical law. They still work cloaked in local community school boards, city and state governments to implement radical fundamental ideology through school district decisions, city codes and state legislation, the extremist grassroots are still active.Reconstructionists and Dominionist movements, based on biblical prophecies assuring ultimately victory expect to usher in the kingdom of God by force and law they are patient revolutionaries. Americans must keep careful watch as these radicals grow very impatient with the pace of reform (Palin used this code word multiple times during campaign speeches) via the political process and the zealot factions start taking the law into their own hands.Americans who love democracy must acknowledge what is at stake and face the challenge these cloaked and patient radical theocratic revolutionaries represent, they are a very real threat to the American democracy and our constitution.Obama’s organizing at the grass roots level, precinct by precinct, is a very serious threat to the extremist Christian revolutionary movement. Rhetoric is not going to defeat them, what matters most is the number of ballots that are cast to oppose them on school boards, local, state and federal elections and verifying having votes accurately recorded.

  • jaynashvil

    Dobson can celebrate his “victory” over gay marriage all year long, but what exactly has he and his troops accomplished? Gay people didn’t disappear; gay couples didn’t disband. All Dobsony has to brag about is cheating some people out of the legal benefits that he personally enjoys. And in other states, he cheated some children out of much needed parents. This is cause for celebration? The fact that they’re celebrating demonstrates vividly the VERY reason they’re losing influence. As long as the religious right invests its energies on promoting intolerence or discrimination, they’re going to continue losing sway with the public. The U.S. is far too diverse anymore–diverse in every possible way–for a message of exclusion to be embraced by the majority, or the politicians.

  • surlydoc

    we need to make a change in the tax laws of this country. if professionals in the field of religion insist on dabbling in politics they should lose their tax exemption. i’m not saying they should not be allowed to be involved in both politics and religion. like the rest of us they should pay their fair share for the privilege.

  • badcrosbys1

    Has anyone seen Jesus lately? You’ve all spent a lot of angry time hurting our nation and wasting incredible resources for an invisible leader that obviously doesn’t care how fast and loose you play with the rules.

  • mcdooley

    What will it finally take to get white-washed tomb Dobson and his morally bankrupt ilk off the pages of respectable newspapers? Why do these emotionally shrivelled husks, utterly devoid of even a shred of understanding of their own (especially) or any other human heart, continue to garner a prominent pulpit in our collective conversation? As we struggle and stumble along together in this vale of tears they contribute only fear, shame and chains. They are a pebble in our sandals, a splinter in our eyes.

  • bartedson

    “”This was not a rejection of conservative values,” but a rejection of Republicans who had abandoned conservative principles, Perkins said.”This was absolutely a rejection of conservative ideology. Conservative ideology–massive deregulation and tax cuts for the very rich–was shown to ultimately result in economic disaster driven by unbridled Republican greed. And the final result? The nationalization of our banks–in other words, socialism for the Republican elite.

  • norriehoyt

    Religious conservatives who are disporting themselves with joy at the passage of the anti-gay referenda are in the same position as the surrounded Crusaders at the Horns of Hattin.In the case of today’s Christian anti-gay gloaters, demographics will be the slaughterer of their hopes: today’s young and the young to come are accepting of gay marriage and will before long rescind these hateful ballot propositions.

  • sparrow4

    The GOP now stands to become the party of wingnuts an extremists. That they are so unable to assess them selves or even question what the election means terms of the voters wants shows just how extreme and scary they really are.The moderates left in droves- I think the Independents will be the new moderate right party. Perkins and Schlafy are wrong. the election was a rejection of conservative principles because they include contempt for the middle class and the poor, contempt for American founding principles and contempt for the electorate in general. It was a rejection of the culture wars and talking out of both sides of your mouth. And mostly it was a rejection of the redefinition of conservative values to now reflect the religious right- violating separation of church and state.

  • PatStrickland

    It always amazes me that people who say they follow Jesus can’t even live by his rules. Go back and read the four gospels. If you can read & unless your one whose pastor tells you what it says. He (Jesus) said and I quote. “Love one another as I have loved you”. He loved publicans, sinners, prostitutes and worse of all he loved tax collectors. He healed the sick, lame and blind and fed the multitudes and not once did he criticize them,. His criticism was for the priest (pastors) and organized religion. Check it out if you think I’m lying. If you say you are a Christian (which means Christ like) follow what you believe. If you only give it lip service you are a hypocrite. He (Jesus) said of these because you are neither hot nor cold but lukewarm I spew you out of my mouth. Think on this. Serve god how you feel you must, but don’t shove your you must down my throat is Jesus’ name.

  • walker1

    Christian Conservatives were tempted and secumbed to the temptation.Christian Conservatives sold their religeon for promises of earthly power over gay marriage and abortion and the BIG $$$ of mamon.$8 billion for bigger ministries under the guise of charity replacements for social care.Christian Conservatives were NeoConned.Christian Conservatives are suckers.Christian Conservatives were tempted and found wanting. By their own judgement the Christian Conservatives will all be going straight to Hell.

  • AresBelt

    How do you reconcile this election’s result with all the right-wing christian prayers and pleas to God for the other guy? Are you considering the possibility that God did answer your prayers, but it just wasn’t the answer you wanted? Maybe it was divine repudiation.

  • washtopdx

    One thing I don’t understand is why a person of faith isn’t content to just be in their faith?My guess is that if one were to sit on a deserted island and read the bible, one would come away with a very different attitude towards political and social issues of the day and even to one’s fellow human beings (assuming there were any on the island), than they would sitting in a church listening to a preacher with an agenda and coffers in need of filling.In other words, the stuff I hear some religious people spew sounds not like words from, say Jesus.On the other side, it’s just as bad that nonbelievers criticize a person’s religion as stupid. What is wrong with all of you people? If you’re religious, go pray and do something nice for someone. If you’re not, do the same without the praying.And then ask yourself what would you lose if you just stopped wanting to control the other side with your ideas? If you let go of that, would you be the same person or different? Why are you so afraid? If you’re worried about a human life, go find a person on the street that needs your help. Offer to pay for a neighbor’s kid who doesn’t have health insurance. Buy a poor family a meal. Whatever. Or fix your own broken souls for crying out loud.

  • DPETERSON251

    I encourage the Christian Right to continue to do what they have been doing. It has worked so well since the 2006 election.Sadly, they really believe that the Republican leaders care about abortion and gay marriage.The fact is, they have been used. Poorly! With the Republicans in control of Congress between 1994 and 2006, and a Republican President in control from 2000 to 2008 they did absolutely nothing. Why?Because you are considered free votes! As long as lip service was paid to you, you continued to come out and vote for them.The first head of the Office of Faith Based Initiatives came out and said this… but instead of listening you branded HIM the traitor.Look at Rove. Instead of creating a multitude of options to assist a pregnant woman who is unsure of her ability to have that baby… they have kept it real simple. Yes or No. No options, no alternatives, no incentives, nothing.They have played the Christians who care for years while turning them away from the Democrats who want to provide positive action to reduce abortions.Continue what you have been doing. Play the victim card and blame everyone else. It really has been successful.

  • DwightCollins

    “According to Associated Press exit polls, 34 percent of white Protestants voted for Obama, while 65 percent went with McCain. Obama won the overall Roman Catholic vote, but white Catholics backed McCain by a slim majority, 52 percent to 47 percent. Among white Christians, the racial gap was most pronounced with evangelicals: 74 percent backed McCain, 24 percent backed Obama.”those catholic that voted for obama are not catholics, they belong to another religion…

  • CCNL

    Why the Christian Right/Respect for Lifers Will Always Be Outnumbered in Future Elections:The fastest growing voting demographic: The 70 million “mothers and fathers of aborted children” whose ranks grow by two million per year. They easily put President-elect Obama in the Blood- Red House!!!!

  • Pebble1776

    It is not the cultural conservatives who let the GOP down, it was the globalist corporate branch that drove the economy into a ditch and turned off independents. Big business has gotten so powerful and arrogant that they view the middle class as cannon fodder.Corporate elites have undermined the economic well being of the middle class by shipping all their jobs to Asia and supporting illegal immigration and outsourcing of labor. On top of this the Chamber of Commerce and Club for Growth types provide few votes on their own and not much money to the campaigns. While there are many people complaining about Sarah Palin and religious nuts, most of the people complaining are Democrats who would not vote Republican anyway. The moderates or independents that swung this election to Obama were turned off by the economic wing, not by cultural conservatives.

  • HillMan

    Anyone that advocates spending hundreds of millions of dollars fighting to make sure that aging lesbian couples have a harder time getting health care coverage or survivor benefits instead of using that money to save hundreds of thousands of Africans dying from easily preventable diseases has pretty much lost the right to claim any sort of moral high ground.Really. Would Jesus sit by and watch countless African babies die needlessly so He could instead spend millions on making life unnecessarily difficult for old lesbians in Sacramento?If you really believe that, I feel sorry for you. You’ve been consumed by hate.

  • dgblues

    It fills me with glee to watch these “barracuda” advocates of a rejected fringe ideology, whose disproportionate claim of power has passed its zenith, fall back to every excuse in the book:”The disarray of the conservative movement is the fault of George W. Bush and his advisor Karl Rove…I guess it turned out that he was not a conservative after all.”Of course. Now that your puppet has served his purpose, stab him in the back. Look the other way; pretend you don’t know him.”This was not a rejection of conservative values…”Oh no! It was an affirmation of conservative values. A landslide affirmation. However, what it affirmed about them you’re not going to like very much.The fundamental inability of the self-righteous to engage in any sort of honest introspection has been their downfall, and will assure they are relegated to the three-sigma margins they always occupied until their post-Reagan flash-in-the-pan.Now, go ahead, continue fighting among yourselves. It’s a hoot to watch. Any news on whacko end-timer Sarah Palin’s literacy or shopping habits? Boy, she sure took you people for one big ride, didn’t she?

  • dgblues

    “those catholic that voted for obama are not catholics, they belong to another religion…”So much for Jesus’ admonition to not judge others…proving once again that hypocrisy and religious dogma are next door neighbors.

  • HillMan

    Can someone point me to the actual Bible verses condemning abortion? The only ones I’ve ever found are ones in which if you cause a pregnant woman to lose her unborn child you must pay the father a fine, for the loss of his property.That’s hardly a ringing rebuke of abortion, especially since abortion was quite common in both Jewish culture (Old Testament) and Roman culture (New Testament).

  • spidermean2

    dgblues wrote ” Boy, she (Palin) sure took you people for one big ride, didn’t she? “Conservative Christians have a guidebook. We all know where we’re going. Wait a few years and see who’s up for a big bumpy ride.Conservative Christians would stay and rule this world. Our “guidebook” told us so. The book is coded and only the wise could understand it. It’s like a map and those who don’t know how to read the map are like driving blind. I suggest that you guys take a walk to avoid a carcrash.Europe for centuries followed the liberal path and they burned twice during 2 world wars. The next time it happens, they won’t recover.Take note coz the burning will cross the atlantic.

  • mikedonovan1

    spidermean2 : I however have an invisible friend. He told me I would rule the world. You wouldn’t know that though, because he’s invisible and only I can understand him.

  • bevjims1

    EnemyOfTheState wrote: “I’m not sure why the ‘religious right’ hasn’t completely abandoned the GOP. The pattern in every election is that the party panders to Evangelicals by dangling out the hope that just one of their issues would be taken off the back burner, and then they are shoved aside.”Well, that just tells you something about both Evangelicals and the GOP. Evangelicals seem to have an ends-justifies-the-means attitude when it comes to compromising principles and beliefs in order to get their theology written into law. The GOP on the other hand seems to be willing to pander to any group that can deliver a significant number of votes, no matter what they need to promise to get them. Nixon’s southern strategy was just one example of GOP pandering with no regard for laws and the Constitution. Te latest example is pandering to the religious. The large loss they suffered should make the GOP rethink this strategy, but don’t expect this election loss to change the GOP. The problem with the GOP is that they are not a governing party. They have no interest in leading this nation. They are simply an opposition party whose members have varying self interests, from those who don’t want to pay taxes to those who want large government contracts to those who want no government oversight to those who want their religious values put into law. The only way they can maintain enough votes to get elected is to maintain these varying groups even when their interests differ. The GOP is like a poorly made quilt, a patchwork of varying opposition interests that come together to oppose the only party that actually cares to govern this nation, the democrats. You only need to look at the last 8 years to see that the GOP lead this nation nowhere. We’ve been wandering in the wilderness as a nation as the GOP gave its groups what they wanted. The religious right got government funding. Government contractors got large contracts, many without competition. Wall Street got low capital gains taxes and little oversight. Drug companies got an FDA that worked for them and not the people. The list goes on, but no leadership, no vision, just opposition. The last republican to have a vision was Nixon who saw opening China as good for the US and he created the National Cancer Institute among other actions. But when Nixon left office the GOP could only muster a majority by cobbling together varying interest groups, which is where they remain today. And you can hear the frustration in the GOP, those few who believe their party should become a leader of this nation. They look back to Eisenhower who forsaw bringing this nation closer through a national highway system, built the military into a solid deterent to the Soviets, and who also saw the harm a military industrial complex could do to this nation. If the GOP ever wants to become what it is not, it must start over, from scratch. It must start with very basic principles, not the laundry list of special interests it currently has. It must then purge those who do not share those few principles and become smaller than they are today. That will take courage. But once they focus on their core principles they should begin to grow again. I doubt anyone in the GOP has this ability though. Principle is not their strong point, but that is what it will take or in the future they will have no choice but to seek out groups that the democrats have rejected and hold ther noses as they bring them on board to gain their votes, and once again failing to lead. Evangelicals have proven themselves gullible. You almost cannot blame the GOP for going after them when they have nothing to offer America to get votes. Maybe, just maybe, after the Palin experience, and the experience of putting evangelicals into positions of power and seeing how they broke laws and only served their own interests, maybe the GOP will grow up and reject religious pandering, but I doubt it. Power is what they want, not the will of the people to lead.

  • spidermean2

    mikedonovan1, time is the ultimate judge. Let’s see who’s lying. My guidebook existed for centuries. Yours is just a figment of your imagination or something “written” on a toilet paper before you flush it.

  • ScottChallenger

    When Obama was born, there were 22 states that had laws on the books outlawing interracial marriage. Those states were known as “conservative” and they promised the downfall of mankind if these marriages were sanctioned.Memo to the conservatives trying to outlaw gay marriage today. Pull out an audio tape from 25 years ago and listen to the ridiculous reasons given by those who supported interracial discrimination. It sounds eerily similar to what “Christian” so-called leaders say today about gay marriage.So Mr & Mrs religious Conservative, how did that interacial marriage ban work out? THE SAME THING WILL HAPPEN TO GAY MARRIAGE. Get it?

  • spidermean2

    89 percent of Alaska approved of Palin. I assume the liberals want somebody whose approval rating approaches zero. I don’t know how to describe it. Is it stupid or insane? I guess it’s INSTUPID – stupid and insane.

  • spidermean2

    “So Mr & Mrs religious Conservative, how did that interacial marriage ban work out? THE SAME THING WILL HAPPEN TO GAY MARRIAGE. Get it? “Racial prejudice is a product of evolution theory. They are not conservative, they are idiots.Gay marriage is a totally different matter. You should get it coz it won’t happen. If it does, it will burn out.

  • bevjims1

    spidermean2 wrote: “Conservative Christians would stay and rule this world. Our “guidebook” told us so. The book is coded and only the wise could understand it.”I thought you and the other religiously deluded were all going to leave this planet in a mass vanishing and leave the rest of us behind. You keep promising this but it never happens. Its like a relative who keeps promising to move out of your house but every morning there they are, eating your food and telling you everything they think you are doing wrong, and not lifting a finger to make your house a better place to live. Maybe you could decode that coded book, the one that is so coded it actually has completely opposing statements, and tell us just *when* you are all going to leave so the rest of us can plan for a world without the religious right, a world that will be heads and tails better than the one the religious right has tried to make over the last 8 years.And consider that the only times God took a lot of souls at one time he took wicked souls leaving the righteous behind, not the other way around. Consider that when you are taken during the rapture it will not be because you are seen as good in God’s eyes but instead are seen in the same light as those of Sodom/Gamorrah or like the people of Noah’s day, evil.

  • ScottChallenger

    Toby McQuire. Evolution is responsible for racial prejudice? Wow, what form of acid were you trippin on when you came up with this one?”If it does, it will burt out.” Yep, just like interacial marriage has. Yeah.Ignoraance.

  • bevjims1

    spidermean2 wrote: “Racial prejudice is a product of evolution theory. They are not conservative, they are idiots.”So before Darwin there was no racial prejudice? You really need to stop making stuff like this up.

  • spidermean2

    bevjims1 wrote ” I thought you and the other religiously deluded were all going to leave this planet in a mass vanishing and leave the rest of us behind.”You don’t often hear this but that is wrong. It’s the unbelievers who’s going to vanish. It is called Doomsday.We’re here to stay. Peaceful coz no more idiots around.

  • Chaotician

    I trust that Americans will one day realize the absolute worthlessness of the Evangelical nonsense. They have been played for suckers and fools for a generation; giving their wealth and support to ruthless charlatans, crooks, and liars. These blustering hypocrites, blood-sucking parasites, racketeers need to be jailed for their crimes; and their fleeced flocks need seriously consoling to overcome a lifetime of indoctrination and ignorant acceptance of absurd stories and worse interpretations of a pretentious dogma of tired old men and death oriented cults leaders.

  • ebleas

    “Your choices are simple. Retake your party, work with President Obama, and form NEW policies based on those theories that did work (if you can find any). Dump the evangelicals, gay-haters, racists and pro-lifers- let them form a 3rd party if they want.”Good point. I have suggested this as well. As a fiscal conservative and a social liberal, I don’t know where I fit these days in the political mix of things. I have heard there are others like me – folks who believe in the essence of fiscal conservatism and small government, but cannot in good conscious associate with the neocons due to their take over by the bible thumping, gay / immigrant hating extreme religious right. So, what say you evangelicals? Give us back our republican party and form your own third party representing the extreme right, i.e., the “base”. I’m sure you all will be much happier there, leaving you free to focus on the issues that really concern you – mainly your social agenda. And this will leave us free of your burdensome social baggage that you carry, and let us focus on the things that really matter, such as fiscal matters and the economy.

  • drbill21

    I must respond to some of the comments that suggest that the vote in California somehow denied gay people “benefits” or “legal rights.”That has always been a key argument of gay marriage proponents but the matter in California actually exposed that THAT is not really their true agenda.People seem to forget that there was AND STILL IS a civil union law in California that essentially grants gay couples ALL the same rights as married couples. So this debate is NOT about benefits or legal rights because gay couples, thanks to the overwhelming bend-over-backwards tolerance of the California people, already had that. The strategy is very clever…. first gay couples get their foot in the door by telling bleeding heart stories about hospital visits and insurance denied and then once society grants them all the same benefits, they argue that it has created a “separate but equal” arrangement that violates equal protection and that their choice of spouse must be given the same dignity and status as straight marriage.Civilization since its beginning has always privileged the union of one-man-one-woman in marriage for very common sense logical reasons. Gay couples insult that legacy by trying to impose their relationship choice on us and require us to treat their different choice as equally valid.People in this country will bend over backwards to give people the right to do what they want in their private relationships, but they will resist when those people insist that everyone must adjust their definition of marriage to include those choices.

  • spidermean2

    Racial prejudice sprang from stupidity and ignorance. These traits infect both the liberals and conservative.Darwin reinforced the stupidity.

  • bevjims1

    spidermean2 wrote: “It’s the unbelievers who’s going to vanish. It is called Doomsday.”You got that from the bible did ya? Care to quote the reference? Or it this just more stuff you are making up?

  • spidermean2

    “And except that the Lord had shortened those days, no flesh should be saved: but for the elect’s sake, whom he hath chosen, he hath shortened the days.” (Mark 13:20)The scientists are one in saying that Doomsday is 5 minutes before midnight. Many of those scientists don’t even believe the Bible. And yet, they agree on this matter.

  • Alex511

    fr drbill21:>…People seem to forget that there was AND STILL IS a civil union law in California that essentially grants gay couples ALL the same rights as married couples. So this debate is NOT about benefits or legal rights because gay couples, thanks to the overwhelming bend-over-backwards tolerance of the California people, already had that. The strategy is very clever…. first gay couples get their foot in the door by telling bleeding heart stories about hospital visits and insurance denied and then once society grants them all the same benefits, they argue that it has created a “separate but equal” arrangement that violates equal protection and that their choice of spouse must be given the same dignity and status as straight marriage.I’m very sorry that you are so misinformed about GLBT’s and the rights we have fought VERY hard to get, like being married to the partner of OUR choice, joint credit, joint property, the RIGHT to not be fired, expelled, evicted just because we happen to be GLBT. Are YOU aware that in 33 states, GLBT’s can be fired just for being gay? Oh, and your little rant about GLBT’s already having equal rights is completely incorrect, as well. Quit channeling the likes of “dr” dobdork and get the true FACTS.

  • drbill21

    I think the votes on gay marriage show that social issues are still an important and viable part of Repbulicanism. Even the abortion propositions had a silver lining.I mean, even I as a pro-lifer, was surprised that 45% of the voters in S. Dakota agreed to criminalize abortion from the moment of conception except in the case of rape and incest. 45% is a lot larger number than most would have suggested. 25% of the voters in Colorado voted to define a person from the moment on conception with NO exceptions. That is VERY strong for such an extreme position.What this means is if the pro-lifers are willing to compromise a LITTLE on the issue, I think a majority of voters would go along. Most people are personally pro=life… you just have to persuade them that it os ok to impose that belief on everyone else.As for Prop 8 in California, yes the vote was ONLY 52%-48% but that drastically understates the opposition to gay marriage. Pro-gay marriage people had ALL the advantages.They had a recent supreme court decision… people are reluctant to overturn the supreme court.The wording of the ballot was negative such that people were told that they would be eliminating rights (as fresh and novel as that right might have been). people don’t like to think of themselves as eliminating a “right.”In other words, those opposed to gay marriage were fighting with two hands tied behind their back and they STILL won, suggesting that in a fair fight they would have clobbered gay couples.If this had been a straight up proposition CREATING a right to gay marriage, it would have passed overwhelmingly (as it did in 2000 with 62%). People are wrong to suggest that public opinion has improved since the numbers dropped from 62% to 52%…. the propositions were totally different.

  • rbaldwin2

    Best thing that has happened in the last century…fading away….Poof! Now you’re gone!

  • spidermean2

    There are so many gays around the world. Why don’t you guys buy a big island like Greenland and make your own state where you can make your own laws and stop infecting our God-given constitution. Bring along with you the abortionists too. The Pilgrims and Puritans have done that and went to a wilderness called America. If they have done it, surely you can do it also.

  • bevjims1

    spidermean2 fiddled: “And except that the Lord had shortened those days, no flesh should be saved: but for the elect’s sake, whom he hath chosen, he hath shortened the days.” (Mark 13:20)Oh NOW what scientists say matters? You really are a cherry picker spidy. For example, you gave one verse of Mark 13, yet if you read all of Mark 13 you learn that doomsday and all the things that are suppose to happen leading up to it will happen within the generation of the apostles:”Verily I say unto you, that this generation shall not pass, till all these things be done.” (Mark 13:30)But the most important of the verses in Mark 13 is:Maybe you should stop trying to seduce spidy by foretelling Doomsday being just around the corner. Your predictions are just what Christ warned us against.

  • ppease5

    When the Bush Republicans and the Evangelical Religious joined forces their acts reflect on each other. George Bush and the Republican party stood with the rich and powerful and not for aiding the poor. This is opposite from what Jesus taught. When George Bush endorsed torture every Religious person should have cried out in horror. This Republican President acts like the anti-Christ and as Jesus said by his fruits you will know him.When the Sarah Palin said that this war was a mission from God she is preaching the opposite of what Jesus taught; that only love can overcome evil. Just as Osama bin Laden hijacked Islam for his political purposes; the Republican party is attempting to hijack Christianity for their political purposes.True followers of the teachings of Jesus need to reject those who preach such falsehoods. Just as Jesus rebuked the religious leaders of his time so should his followers use their God given intelligence to see through the deceit and stand for goodness and mercy; stand for peace instead of war; stand for the poor instead of the rich.

  • ebleas

    “It’s these attitudes, and the worldview that produces them, that have fueled the gay-rights movement. It rolls on because it resonates with what many Americans believe. And that means that the only way to slow it down is to change the terms of the debate: to once again establish that we are not lower than the animal species, that sex is not for recreation-it is for procreation.”My jaw dropped when I read this “opinion”. So all you folks out there having sex for fun, stop it now! (giggle)

  • ScottChallenger

    When Obama was born, 22 states had laws banning interracial marriage. These were self-described “conservative” states protecting the pureness of mankind. How did the interracial marriage ban work out? Irony at its best.

  • sparrow4

    people! There is not dealing with spidey- he doesn’t comprehend (or write ) English and there aren’t enough brain cells left to run an olive off a cliff.About those Pilgrims and Puritians and the great wilderness- Sees to me a few Native Americans might have some tales to tell. But spidey, I do wonder, what’s your problem with gay people? You must be one bitter guy- no woman would have you and you’re jealous that those “horrible LBGT” people can have real, loving relationships and you can’t even forge one with a goldfish.Have you tried the internet. I hear they have matching services, and some of the specialize- Religious WingNuts Love Service.com…Pre-Apocalypse Dating Service.com….Uneducated Bible Thumpers Love machine.com…Go on- meet someone or something. Have a real life, Mr. Bates. Bury your mom’s mummified body and clean the motel. You never know when a nice girl will come along and want a shower.

  • spidermean2

    pookiecat ” and take that gutless, racist slob Dobson with you. Hopefully, he’ll step on a land mine. “That could only happen if he steps on your head. Your brain is more than a landmine. The stupidity it spills will destroy you and the people who follow your lead. The blind leading the blind unto the ditch of landmines.

  • spidermean2

    AnthonyGenX “He shows more commitment and dedication than a certain Alaskan I know who struggles with primary school geography.”Yup, 89 percent of Alaska approved of Palin’s job. And if you’re correct that she is not committed and dedicated, maybe that explains why the remaining 11 percent were not satisfied. Good point. I don’t know idiots are also that smart.

  • Seala

    spidermean2 A lot of Christians think Conservative Evangelicals

  • cletus1

    I voted for Bush in 2000. I voted this time for the Libertarian candidate (lame as he was). It was obvious early on that the Bush administation was not a conservative administration to begin with (in my definition of the term). I have often rued my vote, as Al Gore would have been a more conservative candidate, much more libertarian and not dedicated to a police state and an interventionist foreign policy. The people who are now claiming that they lost because W was not an authentic conservative cheered him on for most of the 8 years. They are beneath contempt.Religion ruins everything.

  • ThomasBaum

    DAVID WATERSSome comments concerning your post.You wrote, “Schlafly laid the blame for Obama’s victory squarely in the lap of President Bush.”, I wonder, if McCain would have won, would she have blamed President Bush for McCain’s Victory?You also wrote, “R. Albert Mohler Jr., president of Southern Baptist Theological Seminary, acknowledged that the “margin of victory and sense of a shift in the political landscape point to greater disappointments ahead””.This reminds me of a statistics class that I took where the teacher said that one can make statistics say anything one wants. I saw a cartoon in the paper that in one panel when Bush won it had 51%, country in disarry, in the other panel it had Obama wins, 52%, country united.What “margin of victory” are they talking about?By the way, I do not know what the percentages were, but isn’t it interesting the conclusions that some read into things?Then he went on to say, ” will bring disrepute upon the Gospel”, does he not even have a clue what the Gospel is and that it means “Good News” which is for ALL or does he twist the Gospel into trying to set up a “theocracy” which is not even close to what Jesus taught.And then you wrote, ” “A tremendous night for the cause of righteousness,” senior vice president Tom Minnery said on Focus’s CitizenLink webcast.”.This reminds me of a story that Jesus spoke about, “Two men were in the temple praying, one was saying to God, thank You that I am not like other men, including this low-life over there, I tithe, I follow all the rules, I am so good I can hardly stand myself [you can almost see God up in heaven saying, “Finally, finally We finally agree on something] and the so-called low-life saying to God, “Have mercy on me a sinner””, Jesus went on to say that they both went away justified, one in his own eyes and the other in God’s Eyes, something to think about!Then you wrote, “Richard Land told Christianity Today, “If evangelicals are sad about the election, I’m going to say, ‘Do you have faith in God? Is your faith in God or in government?'”, very good question, very good question!Also, one may have Faith in God and one may also know God’s Name but that does not necessarily add up to a bucket of snot, God does not look at your beliefs and He does not look at whatever label someone puts upon themself but God looks at the person.By the way, it is not above my pay grade to state the obvious, which any high school biology student should know, and that is that Life begins at conception. Take care, be ready.Sincerely, Thomas Paul Moses Baum.