Palin’s Christian nation

By David Waters In a speech last week, Sarah Palin promoted belief in God as a form of patriotism, dismissed … Continued

By David Waters

In a speech last week, Sarah Palin promoted belief in God as a form of patriotism, dismissed notions that “America isn’t a Christian nation,” and denounced a federal judge’s ruling that it’s unconstitutional for government to declare a National Day of Prayer.

“God truly has shed his grace on thee — on this country. He’s blessed us, and we better not blow it. And that’s why I talk about politics,” Palin told the 16,000-member choir at a Women of Joy conference in Louisville, Ky., last Friday.

“Lest anyone try to convince you that God should be separated from the state, our founding fathers, they were believers,” she continued. “Hearing any leader declare that America isn’t a Christian nation . . . It’s mind-boggling to see some of our nation’s actions recently, but politics truly is a topic for another day.”

Here at Under God, politics is a topic for any day, especially when it’s mixed with religion.

Palin’s reference to “any leader” was a clear reference to President Obama, who in a 2006 speech said, “Whatever we once were, we are no longer a Christian nation — at least not just — we are also a Jewish nation, a Muslim nation, a Buddhist nation, a Hindu nation, and a nation of non-believers.”

Those comments — especially the truncated sound bite “We are no longer a Christian nation” — were deployed across the Web to depict presidential candidate Obama as a non-Christian or an anti-Christian.

Palin isn’t the first 21st Century politician to proclaim America a Christian nation. In a 2007 interview with, presidential candidate John McCain said: “The Constitution established the United States of America as a Christian nation.” (His campaign later clarified the remark.)

Of course, the U.S. Constitution expressly did not establish America as any sort of religious nation.

As Newsweek editor and On Faith co-moderator Jon Meacham (author of “American Gospel“) and others have repeatedly pointed out, the Constitution expressly did not establish the U.S. as a Christian nation.

A treaty the U.S. signed in the 1790s declared that “the government of the United States is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion.” Andrew Jackson resisted bids in the 1820s to form a “Christian party in politics.” Abraham Lincoln buried a proposed “Christian amendment” to the Constitution to declare the nation’s fealty to Jesus.

And so on. And yet the notion persists.

According to a Newsweek Poll last year, 62 percent of Americans consider the U.S. a Christian nation (down from 71 percent in 2005).

Brent Baker, vice president for Research and Publications at the Media Research Center, says the media is making too much of Palin’s comments. “(She) never said anything about an ‘official’ religion, so (she) could just mean that as a practical matter the nation is Christian since it was founded on Christian principles espoused (by) the majority of the Founding Fathers, that nearly all current elected officials pay homage to Christianity no matter their level of faith, and that the vast majority of Americans who are religious adhere to a Christian faith.”

Maybe we’re focusing on the wrong question. If a majority of Americans believe this is a Christian nation, maybe the more relevant question — and a good question to begin the 2012 presidential debates — for Palin or Obama or any other politician is this:

What do you mean when you say that America is (or is not) a Christian nation?

Do you mean that a majority of Americans claim to be Christians? Do you mean that America is a Christian nation in the way that Iran is an Islamic nation? Do you mean that the primary purpose of America is evangelical, that the primary allegiance of every American is to Jesus? Or do you mean something else entirely?

What do you think they mean?

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  • WmarkW

    “A label is not a description” is a rule used in journalism to dissuade writers from just calling someone a “terrorist” or a “demagogue” without informing readers of what they actually do.”Christian” is another such uninformative label.Now, if liberals would stop using their own uninformative labels like “sexist,” “racist,” “homophobic” or “extremist” to describe people who oppose their political positions, we might get somewhere.

  • jimjazz2010

    If Sarah palin is not living proof that christianity is a cult and religiosity is not a real sign of mental illness, then nothing will.As WMARKW shows objectivity is not their strong suit. In fact, like Palin, they have gone completely into self-destruct mode, as the far right has from the start.Wake up America.Is is really freedom if we cannot openly and objectively explore realism? What are the christians afraid of? A loss of donators, mainly.

  • DanielintheLionsDen

    If you ask Sarah Palin what she meant by something, she wouldn’t be able to tell you. When Sarah Palin speaks, I don’t think she even remembers, by the end of her sentence, what she said at the beginning of the sentence. I don’t think that she “means” anything when she speaks. She is just babbling. She is a simpleton.

  • PSolus

    “What do you mean when you say that America is (or is not) a Christian nation?”I mean exactly that: America is not a christian nation.No; I don’t even know if that is true.Do you mean that America is a Christian nation in the way that Iran is an Islamic nation?”Iran “Do you mean that the primary purpose of America is evangelical, that the primary allegiance of every American is to Jesus?”No.”Or do you mean something else entirely?”I mean: America is

  • Athena4

    America is NOT a Christian nation. The Colonies may have been founded by Christians of various stripes (Puritans, Catholics, Quakers, etc.), but the men who wrote the Constitution specifically wrote the document to steer clear of any religious overtones. The majority of Americans reject Sarah Palin’s world view, anyway. She’s one to talk about what a “good American” is, since her husband is an Alaskan secessionist.

  • Indian51

    America is the greatest country in the world – a truly democratic, open and a free society – where a vast majority of the people are Christians. That’s a fact and I will leave it at that.

  • ThomasBaum

    America is not a Christian Nation for the simple fact that a nation cannot be a Christian only people can.As far as America being a “Christian Nation” in the theocratic sense, this is also untrue, thank God, and is also totally contrary to what Jesus taught.Take care, be ready.Sincerely, Thomas Paul Moses Baum.

  • spidermean2

    Judgment Day is this : “But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven.”We know who are the folks God will deny just by reading the comments in this forum. America has two masters. One part worships the devil and another part are the children of God or true Christians. But since the worshippers of the devil (evolutionists, atheists, gay marriage proponents, abortionists, fornicators, etc) will be banished, America will continue to be the Great Christian Nation for the rest of its existence.One wonders what these people are doing with their lives to bet on a losing proposition that there is no God.

  • Emmetrope

    Most Christians are against providing health care to 30,000,000 if this is a predominantly Christian nation.

  • rlholloway

    What do you mean when you say that America is (or is not) a Christian nation? I believe the the United States was founded upon Christian principles and was a Christian nation. Today I would say that a majority identify themselves as “Christian” but that a minority are actually a Christian – meaning that they have a personal relationship with Jesus Christ, repented of their sins and accepted Him as Lord and Saviour. We are not a Christian nation by any imagination today. We are a sinful nation that has rejected Christ deciding our way is better than His. There are a lot of Christians in our great country but claiming we are currently a Christian nation would be a stretch of the imagination for me.

  • liberal-and-proud

    Come the rapture, can I have your car?

  • djoelt1

    The system of government set up by the constitution could be adopted by any nation of any faith. What faith is contradicted by three branches of government? What faith is contradicted by having a president who can serve 2 four year terms?What is Christian about the constitution? About the right of people to vote at 18? About having two legislatures, one of which has seats apportioned relative to size of states, and one with each state represented equally? I don’t see anything having to do with the mechanics of government defined by the constitution that is uniquely or distinctly christian. As an atheist I see nothing in the constitution that violates atheism. The constitution is god-free, Jesus-free, and christianity free.Now, the people who operate under this constitution, a majority are christian, at least self identified. In behavior, not so much, but let’s leave that alone for now.When Palin says the US is a christian nation, she is obviously not talking about the system of government. She is talking about the people. And the constitution smartly provides a bulwark against people like Palin from creating a national religion – thank god!

  • patmatthews

    silentJay says, ” In fact, without Christianity the United States and even Western Civilization could not have existed”The world was just fine before the Crusades. Buddhist were happy, Muslims were happy, and Christians were unhappy, and so the Christian perceived everyone else as unhappy like them. Misery loves company. Christians were wrong then and are wrong now. We are happy people, not living in sin, or bad people. people are good by nature. religion makes bad people, just like the minister in HNY lying to everyone in the name of GOD.I am a Buddhist and the world is better of without judgemental people taking GOD’s name as their own name calling people faithless, or unhappy.If GOD told you to tell me, I lack faith prove it with actual facts and not your opinion; I got called by GOD. PLease, that is the same tired excuse Son of Sam gave, when he killed pewople in New York.Patrick

  • WmarkW

    Yawn. You call it “journalism” to re-print the latest half-baked quote from the nation’s most prominent publicity hound and ask people to respond to it?Why not write about a real issue like whether Obamacare will really eliminate post-diagnostic insurance recission, or the relationship of illegal immigrants to California’s budget crisis?

  • chet_brewer

    I’m echoing a lot of comments that have already been made, but a lot of this discussion depends on what you mean by christian. As a nation our founders were by and large christian and a lot of the constitution is based on the enlightened christian thinking of the era, however they very carefully did not establish state religion based on their unpleasant experiences with the church of england and the catholic church.

  • jadams1ab

    LL1 says “1) Be born in the US (citizen), or if born overseas then both of your parents have to be US citizens.” The US Constitution doesn’t say anything at all about where your parents were born… this is the actual text of Article II, Clause 5 “No Person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the Office of President; neither shall any Person be eligible to that Office who shall not have attained to the Age of thirty five Years, and been Fourteen Years a Resident within the United States.”Although the evidence overwhelmingly proves that Obama was born in Hawaii, it doesn’t matter because his mother was a US Citizen.

  • francesewood1

    For good or ill, the United States is not–thank whatever supernatural entity you like — a theocracy. I can’t wait to hear the arguments at the U.S. Supreme Court over the recent Appeals Court ruling on the National Day of Prayer. Those who believe (they don’t think) that the U.S. is a Christian nation are in desperate need of an elementary school civics lesson. There is a reason that the First Amendment prohibits the establishment of religion. One cannot expect much from a citizenry that is obdurate in its insistence on disregarding the phrase, “a well-regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state… .” The reason that I am most grateful that the only god that is truly worshipped in the U.S. is the god of money is that the thought of most U.S. Christians’ god being sovereign over this nation terrifies me.

  • JoeT1

    let’s just ask LL2 to clarify her argument. If Obama was born in HI, what’s your argument about 2 parents? there’s no authority for the 2 parent issue having any bearing on the naturalbornness of anyone actually born on U.S. Soil. One is enough.

  • astroman215aolcom

    if you want the two things that polarize individuals and countries the most, it’s politics and religion. both should be private decisions and not used to run other peoples lives. i was brought up a jew but my feelings were really hurt a few weeks ago when my granddaughters came up to me after they went to church and told me i was going to hell since i didnt believe in christ. religon, who needs that kind of teaching?? i love my country in spite of politics and religion, not because of them!!

  • RedMercury

    I’m sure Osama Bin Laden has similar ideas.Tim Miltz

  • Valentinne

    My parents are not “Christian” but they certainly ascribe to certain Christian values of hard work,self reliance and charity to those truly in need (rather than those in want or who lack a work ethic). I am not offended at all by characterizing America as based in Christian ethics and principles. I only object to morals/values being taught to our children in public schools. I think teaching your children “morally correct” standards is highly personal and should be done only at home. I was offended when school teachers took it upon themselves to train my children which politics are moral (guns,drugs,sex gays, divorce and immigration for example). That is for me to decide and share with them – not for a public school teacher who is a goverment employee of sorts.

  • newsjunkie4ever

    As for Palin’s comment that the founding fathers were believers, and the US is a “Christian nation”, please pay attention to history and look it up. Many founding fathers were deists and unitarians, and rejected the divinity of Christ, the absurdities of the old and new testaments. Many believed in some sort of impersonal Providence as God; some did not believe in the Cruxifiction or God. Re: Check history on George Washington, Thomas Paine, Thomas Jefferson, John Adams, James Madison, Franklin,etc. Palin and her followers are afraid of anything different from the status quo. They fail to accept that the demographics of the US are changing, with

  • paulhume

    I note a comment suggesting a “ban” on prayer before entering the voting booth, which of course would be a violation of the free exercise clause.The tension between the separation clause and the free exercise clause is the mainspring that keeps freedom ticking, albeit sometimes with more fireworks than we really need.I am not a member of any of the mainstream religions and indeed in a theocracy would probably be either underground and/or an enemy of the state (as the Christians were during various regimes in the Roman Empire).As long as the first amendment – ALL it clauses – flourishes, I am not worried. A citizen exercising his religion freely (without violence or violation of other common law) must be no more subject to the regulation of the state because some other citizen is offended by it than a citizen with no religion or a different religion may be forced to bend the knee to the belief of the majority lest they be offended in their turn.

  • hfmd

    Dear Sarah,

  • jadams1ab

    I think that the author’s point that the question for Sarah Palin or other politicians who make this claim should be “What do you mean by that? Do you mean majority Christian or do you mean like how Iran is an Islamic nation?” I think you can support the first, but the second concept is clearly false. (And, do you really doubt that, although they would be revolted by the comparison, that these politicians don’t actually mean the later? They want the Ten Commandments posted in court rooms, prayers in school, their discrimination against homosexuals is based on the Bible and not on our concepts of the rights of free people, etc.) Any honest examination of the Founding Father’s religious beliefs would lead to the conclusion that the spectrum of religious belief at the time of our nation’s founding was just as complicated as it is now. Anyone who doubts this, type the names of Thomas Jefferson, Ben Franklin or John Adams plus the word “atheism” into Google and in about 10 minutes you should be able to convince yourself that some of our most important Founding Fathers had some pretty outspoken anti-religious views.

  • tsch38301

    Athena4 wrote: “America is NOT a Christian nation. The Colonies may have been founded by Christians of various stripes (Puritans, Catholics, Quakers, etc.), but the men who wrote the Constitution specifically wrote the document to steer clear of any religious overtones. “To the contrary Athena. This is teh problem with people not knowing history. The Christian “overtones” were very well documented and are inscribed all over our national buildings and in our founding documents. What our founding fathers called for was freedom OF religion, not freedom FROM religion. They did not beleive that the government should sponsor a specific church, but allow all citizens to choose what faith, if any, they wish to practice. Our countries laws, like it or not were in fact written based on judeo-christian values.

  • cassie123

    When I think of America as a “Christian nation”, I think of the fact that the founding fathers utilized Christian principles while forming our governmental system. Of course, this does not mean that America only allows Christianity…that is clearly NOT what the constitution indicates or I would ever advocate. However, it is impossilbe to deny that Christianity was not involved in the founding fathers’ decisions. Freedom of religion was a major compenent, obviously, of our founding…which is one of the reasons I love my country and I thank God for the wisdom of our founding fathers. Our founding fathers understood the horror of forcing religion upon others and made sure America did not fall into that trap – – but do not fail to see that the founding fathers were also not “afraid” of religion, they used principles from it. As for what Palin or others mean when they say this…I don’t know. I think Palin probably has the same line of thinking that I do — or perhaps also the whole notion that the majority of Americans claim to be Christians over other religions. I think our success as a nation has been because of our adherence to Christian principles…as those are removed from our society (which is unfortunately becoming more common), our strength will only decrease.

  • theartistpoet

    Perhaps it could be best said that we are a nation of faith. As to what that faith is, I suppose that is up to the individual (be it some religious faith or a faith in science and humanity.) Politics is influenced by the personal philosophical, scientific, humanistic, and religious beliefs of individuals but espousing a particular brand of faith as THE faith for America is not American.

  • tsch38301

    Thomas Paul Moses Baum wrote: “America is not a Christian Nation for the simple fact that a nation cannot be a Christian only people can.”So then Isreal is not a Jewish state/nation? I would beg to differ my friend. I see your point, but your logic is far too simplistic. Good try though.

  • MHawke

    Let’s see?The first amendment… badSarah wants to pick and choose.

  • areyousaying

    By their fruits ye shall know them and Palin’s ideas of a “Christian Nation” are:- another pre-emptive war in Iran- capital punishment- no choice even in extreme cases- health care is “socialism”- education is “socialism”- corporate socialism is OK- big oil at any cost including the environment- demonization and discrimination against gays, liberals, Mexican and Muslims- gun show loopholes that send semi-automatic rifles and ammunition to Mexico- making voting right more difficult for minorities- making hard drugs like alcohol and nicotine legal because they reap lobbyist money while sending the kid next door to schools for criminals in prison for smoking a jointWhat kind of Jesus or “Christian” would support this agenda?If this is what “Christians” represent, I want no part of them.

  • slackass

    When conservatives say “We are a christian nation”, they mean “I know nothing about history and am unable to read or unable to comprehend what I read.”

  • msjn1

    If Jesus was alive today, he would be a Democrat. I don’t know how these self serving Christian Republicans can go to church and then try to take away what little the poor, homeless and sick have from the government. It seems that Sarah believes in the sermons from her mouth and not the sermon from the mount. As Maude said, “God will get you for that”.

  • jadams1ab

    Speaking of unrepresented minorities, the portion of the US population of African descent is about 12%, Latinos 15% and Atheists are 16%. And “Christians” like Sarah Palin are certainly helping recruit more Atheists. (Please take this as tongue in check:) I WANT MY OWN CIVIL RIGHTS MOVEMENT!

  • wilder5121

    Thomas Jefferson…our GREATEST founding father…wasn’t a christian…he was a DEIST. Maybe Palin needs to read a few books. She can start with his “Jefferson Bible”…which is only forty-six pages long.That’s because Thomas Jefferson edited out all of the fairy-tales and superstitions invented by men and charlatans from the Bible, and kept what he considered the truth and reality. He said the truth and reality within the Bible “…is as easily distinguishable as diamonds in a dunghill.”But Palin wants to live in fantasy land, and is happy as a clam in that warm and fuzzy ignorance of fact and history.Typical of what Republicans have become. According to the Gallup Poll…ALMOST SEVENTY PERCENT of them actually believe the Earth is only 6,000 years old, and that Jesusu rode around on a dinosaur.

  • silentjay

    Now if we could just get Tebow to write a different religion on his face every week…

  • hicks80456

    The U.S. is not a Christian nation.I mean by that what Thomas Jefferson meant when he said that it made no difference to him whether his neighbor believed in 20 gods or in no god. That “neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg.”Thus, there is no “establishment” (no preference) for the Christian religion or any other religion under the US Constitution and laws. Patrick Henry (who wanted a “Christian” establishment that would have favored all Christian churches) was one who opposed Jefferson on this issue when it was posed squarely in Virginia in the 1780s. Jefferson won the policy debate. Hindus and atheists have the exact same rights in the United States as Christians.

  • buckminsterj

    tsch38301: “Our countries laws, like it or not were in fact written based on judeo-christian values.”Cassie123: “I think our success as a nation has been because of our adherence to Christian principles”Which principles? Which values? And are they actually (or uniquely) Christian? As I posted earlier, several people on this thread have evoked America’s “Judeo-Christian foundation.” What specific Judeo-Christian principles constitute that foundation, and how are they reflected in American culture (beyond religious practice)? I’ve yet to read an explanation . . .

  • frayedcat

    “In the affairs of this world, men are saved not by faith, but by the want of it” – Franklin. “Say nothing of my religion it is known to myself and my god alone”-Jefferson. “As the government of the United States is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion; as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion or tranquility of Musselmen [Muslims]” -Adams…Usual Palin BS methinks

  • voldenuit123

    More than anything, this whole controversy is a comment on our education system. Apparently, it has failed us completely.

  • Emmetrope

    What is better earthly flesh and blood life or existing in heaven forever?The aborted fetus goes directly to heaven, right?

  • arancia12

    To the contrary Athena. This is teh problem with people not knowing history. The Christian “overtones” were very well documented and are inscribed all over our national buildings and in our founding documents. What our founding fathers called for was freedom OF religion, not freedom FROM religion. They did not beleive that the government should sponsor a specific church, but allow all citizens to choose what faith, if any, they wish to practice. Our countries laws, like it or not were in fact written based on judeo-christian values. I’ve heard this argument many times before and it always baffles me that those who offer it don’t see something very obvious.If the founders specifically wanted a nation based upon Chrisitianity they could have simply stated so in the Declaration and the Constitution. They did not.When the SCOTUS reviewed the writings of the framers of the Constitition they found written evidence, not overtones, that the founders wanted a “separation of church and state.” Yes, the founders wanted freedom OF religion but they also wanted freedom FROM a religious state. That is why they specifically said the government could not establish a state religion. The framers of the Constitition were very intelligent men. They could easily have written a foreword similar to what many states have in their constitutions, a mention of the Christian God. Even politicians can worship as they see fit and it informs their decisions, but being Christian is not a requirement.

  • Emmetrope

    How much does a person suffer paying taxes for a few decades if they know they’ll exist forever in heaven?

  • Emmetrope

    Does the newfangled Christian prosperity religion or Sarah Palin’s new found wealth help gain entrance to you know where?

  • lvdave

    Millions of innocent men, women, and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined, and imprisoned; yet we have not advanced one inch toward uniformity. What has been the effect of coercion? To make one-half the world fools and the other half hypocrites. To support roguery and error all over the earth.Jefferson did say the above, but he has one error that is important to note. He says “since the introduction of Christianity” which is not really accurate. These things all took place since the introduction of religion. You have to understand the concepts of these two words. Religion is something that was created by man to hide behind. Christianity is something that was given to us by God when he sent His only Son Jesus Christ to die on the cross and rise again in 3 days to save us all from sin. The principles of this country were founded based on the persecution not of Christians but based upon the persecution of the various religions that practiced various forms of Christianity. Our forefathers did not want the government meddling in the affairs of religious beliefs. Christians under God are able to get along with each other and respect each others beliefs in one God. Religions continuously persecute and put down other religions. To say we are not a nations of Christians would be correct, but we are a nation of various religions assembled into one great nation. A Nation that our forefathers understood needed its government to be separated from religion in order to perform the duties necessary to get all the various religions to get along. That is what is provided for in our Constitution. Our forefathers were all Christians and they understood this principle of separation of church and state. What we can say is that this nation was founded by a group of dedicated Christians that knew for everyone to get along, religion had to be separated from the government. In this way the People would be free to practice their beliefs in any way they saw fit and this right would be protected by out government. Please do not confuse religion with being a Christian.

  • concernedcitizen3

    I’m not sure what Ms. Palin meant by her statement. However, the United States was certainly founded by Christians. In fact, without Christianity the United States and even Western Civilization could not have existed. As a result, the U.S. has always been culturally Christian, while the Federal government was constitutionally prohibited from becoming involved in religion.Unlike most other nations, the U.S. is not nation based on ethnicity. We are a nation of based on ideals and principles. As such, the culture that spawned these ideals and principles is certainly not irrelevant. If the U.S. ceases to be culturally Christian, will it be able to continue as a nation? Had the U.S. Supreme Court not interjected itself into the question of religion in the 1940s/1950s (I’m not sure of the exact date), I’m not certain if any of this would be under discussion today.

  • Nymous

    They keep hoping if they say it enough it will somehow magically make it true. The Constitution inconveniently stands in their way.Palin is a nut, and rather a dim bulb about government.

  • sassafrasnewport

    Palin is as usual, long on rhetoric and short on facts. As many of you pointed out, the founding fathers steered clear of any specific religious overtone in the constitution. We are also a nation where freedom of religion is not only a constitutional premise but our way of life, even if we choose to have no religion at all.

  • ladyliberty1

    ****LL1 says “1) Be born in the US (citizen), or if born overseas then both of your parents have to be US citizens.” Although the evidence overwhelmingly proves that Obama was born in Hawaii, it doesn’t matter because his mother was a US Citizen. **** I NEVER said this, and the overwhelming lack of understanding posts leads me to abandon all attempts at communication with zombies who get their information from Google, and have probably never read a decent book on history in their short lives. Spitting out a remark without any understanding is what most posters do. They are uneducated, or educated in the public school system. Same thing.

  • barferio

    Christians under God are able to get along with each other and respect each others beliefs in one God. That is the purest, 99 99/100 % CRAP I’ve seen on this thread today.Why do you think all those european christians showed up in America, to get along?And no matter how many times you christianists deny it, Jefferson was not a christian. You and your kind would not have allowed this man to be president, and apparently you wouldn’t even allow him to be a citizen.Funny, we the ungodly have no problem with you religious freaks living in America, but you the tolerant christian would have us out the door.

  • tsch38301

    Arancia12, The first sentence of the declaration of independence deals with natural law and states “When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature’s God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.”Like it or not, the men gathered in independence hall opened each day with a prayer to God their creator that they be given wisdom in their days work. The christian influence is undeniable and was absolutely part of the days thinking. As I mentioned, they did not want a state sponsored church and thus the freedom of, not from, religion. You can twist it anyway you like, but history is history.Thomas Jefferson unlike an earlier posted was not defined as a deist. He had many infuences including Christianity (Anglican, Episcopal, Unitarianism, and Deism) He did not fully subscribe to any of them and was an occasional chrustiam church attendee.

  • hohandy1

    Little bit of a history lesson here for our “the founders wanted us to be a Christian nation” types. Let’s talk about law and the legal system.In medieval England there were 3 types of Courts – Law, Equity, and Ecclesiastical Courts. Law and equity courts were designed to resolved legal disputes arising out of civil (or the King’s) law – enforcing contracts, remedying damages, etc. The Ecclesiastical Courts were the laws for the Church and religious disputes – this wasn’t unique to England but illustrates what it means in practicality to mix Church and State – the Church has certain courts to enforce it’s rules, but it is part of and backed by the power of the State. All well and good – everybody following along.Now let’s jump to the US Constitution – as written by “the Founders” – specifically Article III, Section 2 – “The judicial Power shall extend to all Cases, in Law and Equity, arising under this Constitution, the Laws of the United States, etc., etc.”Notice what’s included as part of the judicial system in the US and what isn’t? For anyone who wants to argue through some convoluted reasoning that the Founders REALLY wanted to mix religion and government, that is the clearest thing out there – in the actual document in which they created the government, they specifically – and deliberately – left out the part where religion and church law were part of the state. We have no “Ecclesiastic” courts in the US that have official legal government status because the Founders didn’t want there to be. It would have been so easy just to leave the English system in place that treated religious law equally with civil law – the fact that they specifically didn’t and went out of their way to exclude religious law from civil law is really all one needs to know to decide “intent”.

  • frayedcat

    Anyway…to answer the questions posed, I think that what Obama meant was that the USA guarantees religious freedom, and does not discriminate or legislate based on religious beliefs. I think what Palin meant was “look at me look at me” but I don’t think her capable of sufficient depth of thought or knowledge for your question to apply.

  • edban

    I belief in God does not necessarily make you a Christian. You can be Jewish, Moslem, etc., and believe in God, but not ‘Christian’.

  • nstein1

    From what I see and hear from todays “Christian” , Thanks, but no thanks. You are an intolerant lot at best.FYI, as a youth I was recuited by my minister to enter the ministry. My answer today is the same as then. No Thanks.

  • dgw1091

    If I’m not mistaken, I believe a majority of the founding fathers were Deists (worship God), and not strictly Christian. Too many states included consideration of “Freedom of Religion” to be important, meaning that it wasn’t just the founding fathers.Point is, we are not a Christian nation. Our laws are not based strictly on the bible. You are not required to be Christian to obtain citizenship. As a Christian, I agree wholeheartedly with this.If Christianity cannot stand on its own merits, it does no one any good to force people to it. Same goes for any dogma- including atheism.A majority of Americans are Christian or identify with Christianity. But we are not in any way a Christian nation, and we are better for that.

  • MrNullDevice

    I’m always a bit confused by anyone who says we have laws based on “Judeo-Christian principles.” Which principles would those be, exactly? The 10 commandments? Well, okay, thou shalt not kill, steal, commit adultery…but these notions aren’t particularly uniquely christian or jewish – non-christian-based nations generally don’t allow legalized murder or theft (and many have much stricter adultery laws). The explicitly-Buddhist Bhutan isn’t exactly a haven of loose morality and violence. As for the rest…keeping the sabbath day holy? Making idols? Mmmm…nothing specifically legislated there, really, unless you count the establishment of a weekend. Honoring thy father and mother isn’t exactly law either. Having no G-d before Him – I think the first amendment kind of takes care of that – you have the freedom to have any (or no) god(s) you want.Okay, fine, so we’ve got a few of the commandments in there, but they’re not especially uniquely judeo-christian. So what about non-commandments? Not boiling a kid in the milk of its mother? Not wearing mixed fibers? All that good old testament stuff? Not many laws to that effect. What about the New Testament? Well, not a whole lot of *legal* admonitions in there, although there’s a lot of good stuff otherwise – still, it’s hard to write a law about building your house on sand or considering the lillies and so forth.So, help me out here, which specifically judeochristian precepts are the basis for american laws? As far as I can tell, the stuff that is strictly judeo-christian in nature is the very stuff that we *don’t* legislate.

  • lvdave

    barferio – you only seem to read part of what I wrote, you have to read the whole piece to understand. I said CHRISTIANS – the ones that can not get along are people who place all their belief in religions – religion is man made and therefore flawed. True Christians get along. Jesus Christ got along with everyone – he was the first Christian.

  • acebojangles

    If Palin promoted belief in god as a form of patriotism, then it’s pretty clear what she means by saying this is a Christian nation.

  • tsch38301

    Hohandy, you are absolutely correct. The FF left out references to religion because they were adiment that freedom of religion may include not having a traditional or even any religion forced upon its citizens. It is undeniable that the FF were very infuenced by their faith. There is nothing wrong with that, in fact it probably helped them to create the greatest governing document in history.

  • dsspa

    The issue is not whether the United States is a Christian nation, but what anyone has or wants to gain from any assertion (one way or the other) about this. Sarah Palin is clearly trying to make political hay from this matter. Many right-wing politicians do as well, trying to don the cloak of piety and religiosity and to paint more center or left politicians as being atheists, anti-religion, etc. Religion and state policy are constitutionally separated. Politics, however, is not separated from religion. And the assertion of piety, as opposed to the practice of it, is good fodder for the Republicans: wrap yourself in God’s mantle and enjoy the benefits that derive from that. Those who flaunt religion at every opportunity have a specific agenda, however. It is the agenda of control: they want to control you and me and us. They have litmus tests by which they expect to judge us: church attendance, stands on issues important to them (abortion, gun control and, yes, birth control). The old Goldwater statement that the government should be out of our bedrooms doesn’t sit with them: control of every aspect of your life is what they seek. So when Sarah Palin or some other right wing politician cites the need for and the presence of piety in formulating national policy, run. They’re talking about their piety, their agenda, their policy … controlling you.

  • barferio

    So LVDAVE, you’re not only going to decide who’s fit to be American, you’re also going to decide who’s fit to be Christian?

  • raydh

    It is clear that all of the Founding Fathers were Christian: However, only 3 of 204 were Catholic, so an overwhelming majority came out of backgrounds that were founded in some form of rebellion against a universal establishment of a specific brand of religion.We keep hearing from conservatives, especially Republicans, of stict literal interpretation of the Constiution. I think the literal words of the Constitution are pretty clear:First Amendment: “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.” These were pretty bright guys who knew how to write. If they had meant to write a first amendment that said “The United States is a Christian nation and all people shall recognize Christianity as the official religion”, then they would have done that. But they didn’t.One of the biggest gifts the United States gave to the world is the First Amendment in the Bill of Rights. Sara Palin has the right to say whatever she wants but the courts and the legislatures have the obligation to ignore her on this issue.

  • fullback

    De Tocqueville pointed out some 180 years ago America is defined by Puritan Calvinism. He noted one had difficulty determining, however, which of two gods these great Puritans worshiped more: God or the dollar. He also observed that democracy brought about mediocrity at best. Palin’s in the pack.One other note, the god in the Declaration of Independence is “Nature’s God”, not Jesus’ God.

  • Chops2

    The irony is that the first settlers were escaping state run religion yet that seems to be exactly what Palin wants. Much seems to go over her head though.

  • KeithGold

    Dear Spiderman2:As an atheist, believer in evolution, fornicator, proud husband, and proud father of two great and wonderful children, I take offense to your passing judgment over me, especially calling me a worshiper of Satan, and telling me that I will be banished. I respect your right to believe whatever you want — indeed, as a veteran, I have stood up for your right to do so. But please do not try to impose your beliefs on me, including telling me that my family and I are going to be banished.By the way, my beliefs are based on a rationale analysis of the available evidence. In this regard, I do not feel the need to hedge my bets by falsely professing belief to something that I do not believe in.

  • SCKershaw

    With the possible exception of metaphorical references, any person who represents metaphysical concepts without first qualifying them by saying “I believe …”, or something similar, is indulging in the ultimate conceit. Such a person is saying that they know through ordinary human understanding the mind of God, or if it is an atheistic assertion, the intrinsic character of the universe.As a Christian, it is natural that I should want everyone else to be one too. I would like a nation of Christians, but never a Christian nation whereby every other religious expression would be illegitimate and a Christian would lose the right to change his or her mind. I believe that Sarah Palin is putting on the shameful performance of a shameless person.It is interesting that she said that the founding fathers were “believers” without specificity, leaving space for some future deniability. I’ve never known her to demonstrate historical accuracy and her consistency in that regard is still flawless.I wonder how she can approach potential Hindu, Muslim or Jewish donors with a straight face. I guess that is what make-up is for.

  • boyn4884

    Happy Festivus!! A religion for the rest of us!

  • TomSimone

    Ms. Palin and her sympathizers might notice that the word “God” does not appear in the Constitution.

  • shakeyjake

    Cannot we simply say that America is a nation of religious freedom, because that is the main reason this great experiment began?It seems that anyone who forms their own opinions realize Sarah Palin is shhoting her mouth off for publicity and national attention. She is willing to say anything as long as her face is on TV. I will renounce my citzenship if this women ever gets elected president.

  • KevinAF

    The following bears repeating from a very early posting:In political terms, The United States of America is NOT a theocracy, thus it is not even a nation that is governed by the Bible. The values and principles found in the Bible are NOT found in any of our governing documents. Thus, there is NO Judeo-christian foundation. There is a Greek, Roman, and Enlightment foundation however. Those ideals are found in our governing documents. That’s the way the “founders” set it up. It’s worked out great.

  • abu_ibrahim

    «The U.S. is not a Christian nation.«Posted by: hicks80456 | April 22, 2010 1:43 PM »No difference, it makes no difference to John Q. Christian whether I have one wife or 20 wives or no wife, it neither picks his pocket nor breaks his leg, but the Government says, «no more than one wife or you go to prison». Pagan comes here from Africa, or a Musulman comes here from Yemen, brings his wives, US Government imposes Christian «one to a customer» rule on him. And you say, America is not a Christian nation???

  • frayedcat

    “I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.” Mahatma Gandhi

  • hohandy1

    “a natural born Citizen is someone who is born on native soil and whose two parents are both citizens born on native soil.”That’s a completely made-up distortion. The population at the time of the Constitution had an extremely high percentage of immigrants – to require that “natural born citizen” explicitly meant that both parents also had to be “native born” (nice little word change there – one minute you’re talking about “natural born citizen” – something in the Constitution – and the next you very smoothly slide over to use “native born” – something NOT in the Constitution) would have excluded most of the population in America from ever being eligible to be President. I would think that if such a requirement was in fact in place, that it would have generated a considerable amount of discussion in the past 200 years – and, funny, where is that discussion? Maybe because your requirement” only exists in your own imagination?How about posting some references to some scholarship discussing this little-known, “both parents have to be native born citizens” requirement for us?

  • minco_007

    If one were to read the words of Jesus and parallel that with the words of the likes of Sarah Palin and so many Tea Party advocates. The Hypocrisy is clear! Would Jesus want to Kill any man such as the President, that claimed Christianity as his Religion? Would Jesus advocate the Killing of Moose for sport? Would Jesus support the African Voodoo doctor whom Palin received annointment and protection from witchcraft. Does not the power of Christ trump the power of Witchcraft. OH Yee of little faith. Would Jesus demand to see the Presidents birth certificate? Even as he has shown and of course God would already know if he was not born in America or a born again Christian? Would Jesus be able to find a more devoted Father, Husband, decent Christian human being than the President in the Republican Party? Is it Evil to pretend to the tune of 12 million dollars from people of modest means?

  • JimZ1

    The christian influence in our government is hard to ignore, however there were many principals of government adopted from England as well. My point here is that you don’t see many Union Jacks flying in the United States. All of these different influences are there and are important, so acknowledge them, and then it’s time to move on.

  • rsl903

    Spidermean2 said: Sir: Why do you even pretend evidence is necessary for your beliefs? All questions for you are answered rather lazily with “God”. A reading from the book of Wonder: When you believe in things that you dont understand, then you suffer,superstition aint the way.

  • Skowronek

    Skowronek,If you are born in America, you qualify as a citizen. There are only 3 qualifications to run for POTUS:

  • Lutoslawski

    Even if the majority of Americans are Christian, it would be a serious mistake to think of this great country as “Christian.” Just look at how non-Jews fare in Israel. Tolerance and respect for minority faiths is essential.

  • pblotto

    What they mean is that they were sleeping in their American History classes and have no clue what the founders thought about religion, the establishment of religion, or the First Amendment. Once again, we see the result of years of right wing misinformation, the dumbing down of curriculum, and the undue influence of the radical Christian right on civic discourse.The United States in not a “Christian Nation”, it is a nation in which the majority of people who define themselves as religious happen to be Christians, but not in the sense that the evangelical right would prefer, where Christian applies only to someone who follows their narrow, intolerant interpretation of the Bible, preferably the Old testament, but Christian in the sense that they roughly identify with one of the various Christian denominations, the Roman or Orthodox Catholic Church, the Marronite Church, the Mormons,the Seventh Day Adventists, and sho knows who else.Bottom line, this country was founded on the idea that all religions would be welcome here, and that not would be established as the “official” religion – an absolute reaction to the dominance of the Catholic or Anglican Churches in Europe, and the oppression that resulted therein.

  • hohandy1

    “The christian influence in our government is hard to ignore, however there were many principals of government adopted from England as well. My point here is that you don’t see many Union Jacks flying in the United States. All of these different influences are there and are important, so acknowledge them, and then it’s time to move on. “Then why do people like you refuse to acknowledge the writings of Locke, Rousseau, Montesquieu and the rest of the Enlightenment philosphers who heavily influenced the ideas of the Founders, as well as those pagan ancient Greeks and Romans whose ideas of democracy formed the models on which our republic was based? Read The Federalist Papers – written by the Founders to explain the different reasons for what was in the Constitution and why. You’ll see lots of references to the Enlightenment philosophers and the ancient Greeks and Romans – very little reference (if any) to Jesus or Christianity. SO why do you insist that something that had only tangential influence must be acknowledged – why are we spending so much time having to teach Christianists the actual history of thier country – and completely ignore those whose ideas really did have an important impact on the founding of our nation?Start giving props to the Enlightment philosphers before demanding that other people give props to the guy who’s political philosophy was limited to “render unto Ceasar the things that are Ceasar’s and render unto God the things that are God’s”.

  • haveaheart

    “If you ask Sarah Palin what she meant by something, she wouldn’t be able to tell you. When Sarah Palin speaks, I don’t think she even remembers, by the end of her sentence, what she said at the beginning of the sentence. I don’t think that she ‘means’ anything when she speaks. She is just babbling. She is a simpleton.”When I was a kid, my my dad often used a phrase that I found funny at the time: “verbal dia**hea.” As I got older, I began to understand what it meant.Nowadays, when I hear Sarah Palin speaking, it’s the first thing that comes to mind.

  • RaoulDuke1

    Let’s presume for a moment that America is indeed a “Christian” nation. The first question that springs to my mind, what sort of “Christian” are we referring to? Protestant? Catholic? Calvinist? Orthodox? These same sects which spent the most of the past 1,000 years engaged unimaginable blood-letting as they tried to slaughter each other over the most trivial matters?Why would any modern nation wish to affiliate itself which such patent nonsense?

  • frayedcat

    Abu-Ibrahim – funny you should mention bigamy laws – In US these arose from the LDS or Mormon conflicts in mid-1800s – in England they also arose based on religion. But THANKFULLY in the US you can still freely co-habit, bear children with, and financially support as many women as you want at the same time provided they are willing – you just can’t legally ‘marry’ them all at once.

  • MPatalinjug

    Yonkers, New YorkIn blithely declaring that America is ” a Christian nation,” either Sarah Palin is completely ignorant of the U.S. Consitution or that knowing that it is in fact not, she is shamelessly pandering to millions of Christian Americans who tend to agree with her.It should be quite obvious that Sarah Palin has her eye on the GOP presidential nomination in 2012, and that she has no problem saying anything that may sound pleasing to many Americans.Mariano Patalinjug

  • passap1

    keeladog said:”A new Christian Order is coming to America, with our Sarah Palin riding the white horse and carrying the Cross, God bless her! Those of you who are not Christian, you have been warned! Either convert ye now, or get out. Go to China or some other Godless hellhole!”Thanks for informing us. “A new Christian order”? And who devised this order? Fallible humans? I’m sorry you are so hell bent on seeing things as black or white and dividing between believers or non believers. You as a true Christian should witness to the ‘non-believers’, but it sounds like you’d like them to get the hell out?I’d rather set an example of my own beliefs. Remember, if you read your bible and trust in *cough* ‘the word’, as I said earlier – don’t judge, lest ye be judged; he without sin, cast the first stone. What in your mind makes you better than anyone else who might think differently?

  • ozma1

    Quitting-Governor Palin uses “Christian nation” to mean “think well of me”. She’s pandering and nothing more. Now, let her go before a potentially critical audience and make those same statements and they might mean something.

  • passap1

    Mariano Patalinjug said:”In blithely declaring that America is ” a Christian nation,” either Sarah Palin is completely ignorant of the U.S. Consitution or that knowing that it is in fact not, she is shamelessly pandering to millions of Christian Americans who tend to agree with her.It should be quite obvious that Sarah Palin has her eye on the GOP presidential nomination in 2012, and that she has no problem saying anything that may sound pleasing to many Americans.”I don’t like to categorize, but ‘remember’ that Palin speaks to people who don’t necessarily ‘fact check’, but blindly believe as that’s what Christianity ‘requires’.

  • kreuz_missile

    “On my arrival in the United States the religious aspect of the country was the first thing that struck my attention; and the longer I stayed there, the more I perceived the great political consequences resulting from this new state of things. In France I had almost always seen the spirit of religion and the spirit of freedom marching in opposite directions. But in America I found they were intimately united and that they reigned in common over the same country. My desire to discover the causes of this phenomenon increased from day to day. In order to satisfy it I questioned the members of all the different sects; I sought especially the society of the clergy, who are the depositaries of the different creeds and are especially interested in their duration. As a member of the Roman Catholic Church, I was more particularly brought into contact with several of its priests, with whom I became intimately acquainted. To each of these men I expressed my astonishment and explained my doubts. I found that they differed upon matters of detail alone, and that they all attributed the peaceful dominion of religion in their country mainly to the separation of church and state. I do not hesitate to affirm that during my stay in America I did not meet a single individual, of the clergy or the laity, who was not of the same opinion on this point. This led me to examine more attentively than I had hitherto done the station which the American clergy occupy in political society. I learned with surprise that they filled no public appointments; I did not see one of them in the administration, and they are not even represented in the legislative assemblies. In several states the law excludes them from political life; public opinion excludes them in all. And when I came to inquire into the prevailing spirit of the clergy, I found that most of its members seemed to retire of their own accord from the exercise of power, and that they made it the pride of their profession to abstain from politics.”The founders, seeing the examples of Europe, recognized that the entanglement of Church and state dminished both, and recognized, based on enlightenment thinkers, that the natural role of government was not to wade into such affairs. When relgious leaders get involved in politics, it doesn’t elevate the discourse, it weakens the faith by making it subject to a worldly debate, and corrupts the religious officials involved who become more obsessed with worldly power and partisan politics than they do advancing their faith and teachings. How many Christian values have the religious right tossed aside – stewardship of the earth, social justice, etc., in their singular partisan pursuit of abortion and anti-homosexual legislation, and at what cost to the faith and humanity?Religion is an important pillar of American society, and the founding fathers did all they could to preserve it as such, by keeping it as far away from the government as they could.

  • whistling

    WHY play games?The author says, to contrast, do we call Iran an Islamic nation?He can’t mention the glaring example…Israel a JEWISH nation? He’s afraid to say it?While, incidentally, many of us note that two of 12 justices of the Supreme court are Jews.. less than 2% of the population. And AIPAC and much of the press is screaming and pressuring for another one to be named.And were Palin smarter than she is, she’d be aware there are probably Jews in the Tea Party, what with all the efforts to infiltrate and use it, and bend it to their

  • kermit5

    “Congress shall make no law respecting an establisment of religion …” Seems pretty simple. While having been born to a church, Thomas Paine, Thomas Jefferson, Benjamin Franklin and James Monroe (all seem on the face of it to qualify as “founding fathers”) professed deism, not Chistianity, in adult life. While many others were Christian, it seems to me the drafter of the Declaration of Independence, participants in the drafting of the Constitution, and the leading political philosophers of the nation might have had some influence on whether we were a “Christian” nation.As a practicing member of a mainstream Christian religion, one thing I fear is those who claim this is a Christian nation will get their way. When that happens, the faith, tolerance, and care for mankind taught by Jesus Christ will be lost to the nation. The enemies of Christ will have surely taken over. My right to practice my Christian faith will soon be taken away. The priests in the temple that delivered Jesus to Pontius Pilate will have won.

  • Johnhw2

    Wondering what Sarah meant by christain nation is no more enlightening than wondering what is meant by global climate change. Both are broad terms with political overtones that mask the meaning. Opinons are common for both since most everyone has one. That opinon is framed by their personal beliefs, family experiences as well as politics. I find the comments above un enlightening other indicating some elements of the politics of some of the opinon writers.

  • BlueTwo1

    The “intellect” from Alaska doesn’t have an inkling how poisonous is the mixture of religion and politics. You take the inerrant Word of God and combine a huge dollop of religion-inspired lawmaking. Suddenly we are at war with non-Christian religions and the countries they are in. Non-Christians in America are viewed as lesser people for purposes of employment and housing. There’s a very squared away soldier who is Muslim. For that fact his fellow soldiers, who are NOT Muslim, harass him. You might think 9/11 was the start of a new Crusade: Christians versus Muslims. It wasn’t.

  • hohandy1

    “It was the intent of the founding fathers that our nation be recognized as “under God” “REALLY? And you base this assertion on….? Care to show us where it is in Constitution?One of the problems with your little history lesson about the “thousands of early documents” that you refer to that mention “God” or “Jesus” – those documents were all from a time when all of the countries involved, England, France, Spain, etc. had official religions that were part of the state. It was quite natural back then to refer to both the state and religion in documents because they were considered one and the same…But then we had a REVOLUTION. We made a distinct decision to ensure that relgion and the church were not part of the state and the government. The Founders all took part in some way in the Revolution – and they created the nation that exists you see the disconnect where you are basically asking everyone to ignore those who participated in the Revolution, and instead give greater credence to documents from governments whose models and influences were officially discredited by what we did and accomplished by our Revolution? It’s nice for the historical record of where we came from, etc. – but to actually argue that because those words and ooncepts were used then, that they should be deteriminative now over what came later that our country was really founded upon is really quite a stretch.I also love the way that you start off your post talking about other people’s ignorance and casting dispersions on their knowledge because they disagree with you – and then you come with such a blatantly bogus argument.

  • garoth

    First of all, to all of those Evangelicals out there – please read your Bible! It nowher talks about a “personal relationship to or with Jesus Christ!” There’ a lot of awful theology spouted on these pages!Second, a note: although a vast majority of people claim to be Christians in this country (some 76%, I believe), the vast majority of these people do not knw what it means to be a Christian, do not attend church, etc. Of the approximately 40% of Americans who associate themselves with a church, many of those never actually attend. Of those who actually have their names on church roles, about one quarter attend on any given Sunday. I believe the figure currently is that about 20% of Americans attend church regularly. That doesn’t sound like a very Christian nation!Yyeal9 is correct in that most people’s faith is a matter of birth; furthermore, “faith” in most people’s minds, equates with “belief,” not the more biblical concept of “trust.” Most people’s faith does not lead to either trust in God or “discipleship,” which is the command of Jesus. They do not have a “kingdom of God” ethic that resembles the Beatitudes or the Sermon on the Mount. Palin, a self-descrbed Christian, along with many Evangelicals, would also fail on that account. Their faith is an odd mixture of Old Testament fire and brimstone legalism, and a contradictory “faith” in Jesus as their “Lord and Savior.” It’s as if they have never actually read either Jesus or Paul (try Galatians – his letter against legalism!). If these folks happened to be born in a Muslim country, they would be just as ardet in their beliefs and, like many o their Muslim counterparts, still just as misinformed.Our system of law is based on English Common Law, not the Bible. English Common Law was not based on the Bible, but rather on the protection of the wealthy class and their holdings. While it is certainly arguable that Christian values have modified that law (any humanist, Muslim etc. would also have agreed that persons should be put before property), that is still the basis for modern law. The framers of the Constitution did not use the Scriptures as the basis for the Constitution – not even the Ten Commandments. While some of the Commandments may be seen in state laws, most cultures would agree on “don’t kill,” “don’t steal,” “don’t commit adultry.” None of these are found in the Constitution. The central law of the Ten Commandments, “you shall have no other gods before me,” is outlawed – we may have any gods we please, or no gods at all!Given all that, pluse the fact that most of our Founding Fathers were either Diests, Unitarians or Agnostics (Jefferson, the framer of the Constitution was famous for his Bible that consisted of only the sayings of Jesus. He thought the rest rather absurd – he was a Rationalist), it is beyond me how anyone can say that we are, or ever were, a “Christian nation.”

  • steelchaser

    @Chops2 May I agree with you?@Fullback Thanks!Ms. Palin is not a public servant. She proved that when she quit her elected position as governor of Alaska to become a self-servant. She is an entertainer at best whose appeal is to an audience of limited ability to discern between reality and the ravings of a loon.In fourth grade history we learned that the Thirteen Original Colonies had various reasons for being. Massachusetts was founded by Pilgrims and Puritans fleeing religious persecution in England. Roger Williams and Thomas Hooker fled Massachusetts’ persecustions and founded Rhode Island and Connecticut, respectively. William Penn, a Quaker, founded Pennsylvania as a place of religious toleration for everyone. Charles Carroll opened Maryland as a refuge for Catholics from England. James Oglethorpe founded the Georgia colony as a second chance for debtors.Point: the framers of the Constitution knew this and did not want to perpetuate the very policies of the crown that they detested, all of which were the addressed in the Bill of Rights. The government was designed with checks and balances to prevent the reasons for the War of Independence from happening again. They were careful to avoid institutionalizing any system of religious beliefs into the new nation.The mention of Nation and Nature’s God in the Declaration of Independence is proof that they were deists and recognized a Supreme Being. That philosophy governed the debates of the Constitutional Convention. If they believed as Christians or in a particular denomination within Christianity, that never made it into the Constitution. That’s a good thing. Here’s an old rock tossed into an old pond: “Render unto Caesar the things that are Caesar’s and to God the things that are God’s.”

  • jaysit

    The sad fact is that for Sarah Palin and her ilk, Christians who profess their faith with a soft “C” are not what Sarah and friends would even consider “Christian.” For Sarah and friends, being Christian is to be born-again, while at the same time embracing a right wing political ideology. The nice Methodist Minister administering to his flock at the little stone church down the street, or the Episcopal priest preaching love, tolerance and charity would be viewed as counter-cultural, anti-American elements especially if they openly disavowed Sarah’s brand of demagogic Christianity.

  • uncivil

    Christians are more than happy to tell everyone and his brother how to live. They feel compelled to preach the holy sacred word 24-7 on as many media outlets as possible. And if you don’t like it that’s too bad.”What are you? An atheist, heathen or devil worshipper? Maybe you’re not even American!”

  • bobdog3

    Christians profess to be good people, that they love their neighbours as themselves, that they do unto others as they would have them do unto them, that theirs is a religion of love and peace toward everyone.As anyone with a half a brain can clearly see from the Christian commentators on this site alone, Christians are anything but good. In fact, Christians are racist, bigoted, homophobic, intolerant of other religions, and for the most part, dismissive of anyone who isn’t white and rich.And that’s what America is really all about, so I guess when you view the real actions of Christians, yes, America is the most Christian nation in the world – which gives you an inkling of why everyone else in the world hates America…especially Christian America.

  • pgibson1

    despite her insistence that I practice Christianity, alas I do not.I am not convinced of this woman’s actual intellect, or ethics because of her outright, flat-out denial that people like me exist.Therefore – I will do all I can for this female bigot to lose character, since she implies that people like me do not exist.It’s called discrimination.And as a woman, I think Palin would have understood the folly of her generalized statements, like- all women are weaker than men….you get the idea.I won’t stand for her baloney. It’s dangerous, and doesn’t really belong in the public debate at all.Not when she says stuff that alienates people she purports to be speaking of.

  • jfern03

    If republicans consider that they carry the banner of christianity that they think the dems don’t value…Ask any republican if Jesus used to get around on a donkey… or an elephant?

  • jp1943

    I personally am not religious but I am interested in whether those who consider the U.S. a Christian nation think Jesus would recognize this country as following his teachings. I doubt it.

  • mark2008

    “Sarah Palin said, “our founding fathers, they were believers.” You are correct Governor, they believed women shouldn’t hold office or, God forbid, vote. Our founding fathers also believed the function of blacks was to serve as slaves. Yes Sarah Palin, our founding fathers were good Christians. it’s mind-boggling!

  • whocares666

    Paylin’s christian nation… were will the false praise end for this political opportunist turned media celebrity?

  • rick5

    The US is a predominantly Christian nation, at least in name: most citizens identify themselves as Christians.Fortunately, by the wisdom of the same founding fathers that Ms Palin mentions, it isn’t a Christian Nation in the way that Iran is an Islamic Republic. I greatly fear that she finds this disappointing. I believe she wants the US to be a country where Christianity, if not officially required, is at least expected, and where those who don’t conform take a back seat.

  • broesam

    It doesn’t much matter what Palin meant with “Christian Nation”, if she meant anything at all (it’s clear that religion was not meant to play any official part in politics, just as it is clear how much US culture is influenced by the Christian origins and believe of many Americans).She’s just using this for her usual sort of wedge politics: us or them, good or evil, right or wrong. To use the christian religion with its inclusive approach to disown certain segments of society from their rights to their country appears particularly insidious. Let’s not fall for this stupid discussion.

  • buckminsterj

    HoHandy1: “SO why do you insist that something that had only tangential influence must be acknowledged – why are we spending so much time having to teach Christianists the actual history of thier country – and completely ignore those whose ideas really did have an important impact on the founding of our nation?””Tangential influence” might even be too great a concession. The Enlightment was a direct response authoritarianism and mysticism, so it’s not surprising that the influence of those thinkers is elided by Palin’s et. al. What’s frustrating, though, is when religionists actually co-opt Enlightenment philosophy, placing it within the “Judeo-Christian” tradition or some such nonsense.

  • frayedcat

    OMG (not the christian one) “birthers” too … still at it. Can you spell naturally born I N S A N E ?

  • Bluefish2012

    As a government, the U.S. is neutral with respect to religion.Clearly, the majority of the country is Christian, and though the media and Hollywood portray it otherwise most of the time, it is still culturally Christian for the most part. Secularization is on the rise, but foxholes, jail cells, and terminal illnesses seem to bring people back to their roots for some reason.The freedom to be free in one’s practice of religion is priceless. As long as the people have fredom of religion, God will work His will. Gamaliel was right.

  • jkoch2

    Palinites need not care what the Constitution says. Nor, for that matter, what the Bible says either. The Sermon on the Mount is not particularly amenable to them.Palin’s “Christian Nation” upholds the sacred principle of gun ownership, invokes divine blessing upon itself frequently, and spends borrowed trillions to protect itself from neightbors it “loves.” It loathes taxes, especially if spent on the sick or needy. It sees holy vengence in others’ misfortunes, as punishment for their sins, and sees prayers answered when the home team scores a win. The state should wage war and incarcerate, but probably not build schools or hospitals. It has no clue about bank sector reform, so will abide by whatever its financial contributors recommend. A “Yes” answer to “Have you been saved?” will be sufficient answer to most questions, but a check of any good denomination will earn even greater blessing.

  • garoth

    Valentinne says: “My parents are not “Christian” but they certainly ascribe to certain Christian values of hard work,self reliance and charity to those truly in need (rather than those in want or who lack a work ethic).” First of all, Valentinne, this is not an attack on you! You express what many people think of as “Christian.” In that sense, anyone with those values might regard themselves as “Christian.” However, those are not Christian values. They have often been called the Protestant Work Ethic, a result of Calvinist thought. Jesus never said anyting about the efficacy of hard work, nor will you find that idea in the New Testament. It not only does not teach self-reliance, but just the opposite – first, that we are to rely on God and, second, that we are in this together. Acts paints a portrait of the proto-type of communism, “from each according to his ability, to each according to his need.” St. Paul does say that those who refuse to work should not be supported by the community, but that is a far cry from “charity for those truly in need(rather than those in want or who lack a work ethic).”A Christian nation would express the values of Jesus. Some of these could be those expressed, for example (if you’ve got your Bible handy):

  • barferio

    Picture a future where christianity is running the government. A sort of christian sharia determining who is and is not criminal. Blasphemy laws, heresy laws, etc.Think of the crime of apostasy, who is to determine what is apostasy, heresy, blasphemy?Hey, we atheists … we’ll just lie about it. We’ll tell the government priests what they want to hear. We won’t like it, but what does it bother us which christian BS story is the one in power right now?But you christians, those of you who believe a variety of christianity that doesn’t conform to Palin’s christian nation, what about you? If you believe your jesus and your gods are telling you things that sarah’s gods consider evil … are you going to just be able to lie about it like we are?You have more to lose than we do. You might think about that once in a while. If you think your version of christianity is going to be the one running the government, well … why do you believe that?Remember all those religious groups who came to America to get away from the religioous oppression in Europe. Really, what makes you think your version is going to be the one running the show?You’ve got to be stupid to let Palin tell you what kind of christian you are.

  • jhope432

    I’ve been a Christian for over 35 years. God’s relationship with believers under His new covenant is on an individual basis and not on a “national” basis. Sarah Palin is wrong.

  • post_reader_in_wv

    The United States GOVERNMENT is secular. Read the Constitution. As a committed Christian (I’m a Baptist–Baptists have historically fought for separation of church and state, something I wish other Baptists could remember), I WANT our government to be secular in the sense that it should stay OUT of religious matters while protecting the right of persons to express their faith OR LACK THEREOF or to make no such expressions whatsoever. Obama’s statement that we are not EXCLUSIVELY a Christian nation is completely true. Evangelical Christians who oppose Obama politically are uncomfortable with that fact and use his statement to criticize him. There is no excuse for that.Things to consider:

  • bozhogg

    The founders came here to have religious freedom and freedom FROM religion. Sarah Palin would have those of us who aren’t Christians – persecuted and ‘educated’. It’s time for Ms. Palin to go hunt moose.

  • estebanwt2

    The people who founded this nation at Plymouth, Jamestown, St. Augustine, Santa Fe, Los Angeles, Sitka, etc., all considered themselves “Christians” whether Protestant, Catholic, or Orthodox. It may be better to argue that it is no longer such rather than that it never was.

  • Ralphinjersey

    One of our nation’s most distinguished philosophers, John J. McDermott, observes that, by virtue of our founding story being one of exodus and covenant, we are in fact a Jewish nation.

  • DanielintheLionsDen

    Why does Sarah Palin hate America so much? If it is an ethnic problem, I am sure that are countries with a more pure Nordic (or Aryan, to quote Hitler, whatever that meant) population, where she might feel more at home. Maybe Iceland?

  • buckminsterj

    “The people who founded this nation at Plymouth, Jamestown, St. Augustine, Santa Fe, Los Angeles, Sitka, etc., all considered themselves “Christians” whether Protestant, Catholic, or Orthodox.”Those were settlers, not founders. And they were not American, but English, Spanish, and Russian.

  • EnemyOfTheState

    Our western moral traditions are Judeo-Christian, but that’s a long, long way from claiming we’re a Christian nation, which implies the establishment of a state religion.Palin needs to add the Constitution to her reading list.

  • nada85484

    One wonders what these people are doing with their lives to bet on a losing proposition that there is no God.Posted by: spidermean2===================================actually, one wonders what these people are doing hoping that God takes vengence on his neighborsone wonders how these fools could call themselves christiansand one wonders if there is any chance of introducing these people to Jesusreal christians don’t hope for a vengeful God, or wish ill toward their neighborsJesus told me to tell you this

  • hootie1fan

    Perhaps because I was raised a Catholic Christian, I still believe that Chrisitianity is not a label or a campaign slogan used to score easy points, but is instead a verb, the way one lives their life.I have never known a Good Christian who had to tell anyone that they were. If you have to tell someone you are such, you are probably neither.Now the founding Fathers for the most part proclaimed themselves to be Christians, but many were not particularly religious nor claimed a belief in the divinity of Jesus. The Christianity of the 15th and 18th centuries sure didn’t look anything like the neo-con, uber-capitalist, prosperity gospel, version the so-called Christians in this country practice today.

  • qqbDEyZW

    Well we’ve seen Christian values of Priest, Law Makers and sport figures as an example of what the US calls Christian Values. Now as we hear Sarah hold herself with the Christian Values her actions clearly show Satans work. An affair, teen sex/alcoholic child, stealing/lying, fake baby story and so much evil. God did say those following Satan’s orders would use God’s name. We have witnessed it for a long time. Sarah and the rest of the Satan followers will have to answer to God on Judgement Day.

  • harbinger317

    I hope America doesn’t get to learn the painful lesson that Europe is having to learn. Here in Europe, people fought as vigorously as American secular “progressives” on this page and in the media and in the White House are fighting to renounce Christianity and to lessen its impact and historical import. Their crusade has led to a huge atheistic populace that looks down on Christianity and Christians as a lesser life form. Well, surprise, surprise, the Muslims have been pouring in from all the far reaches of the Muslim world (Somalia, Sudan, Iraq, Iran, Lebanon, Syria, Palestine, Saudi Arabia, Yemen and many other countries and they don’t see things quite like Obama and the European secular humaninsts do. They see a lost spiritually sterile continent into which to inject their Islamic values. Since Europeans no longer want to teach their children about God, the Muslims are doing it for them. America, don’t listen to these secular humanists. They destroyed Europe and have helped to bring about its Islamicization. Keep lifting up your voices Christians. Keep yelling even if the media and the White House hate you and keep insulting you and calling you radicals and terrorists (while they appease the real radicals and terrorists. Listen to Isaiah “Lift your voice cry like a trumpet.” The left wants you to be quiet and to forget God or to make Him like a corner table in your life that is there to be forgotten. Never back down.

  • barferio

    spidey of course believes in the nonsense he believes, fully convinced that he’s believing the right things because they’re right.Imagine what he’d be like if he were born in Palestine or Iraq. Whatever genetic deficiency possessing him driving him into his religious fanaticism as a Christian would have an equal effect were he born a Muslim. The only difference, the ONLY difference is the accidental geography of is his birth.Of course, he’d have walked into a disco or shopping mall by now and blown himself up trying to kill the infidels.

  • simonsays1

    You may denigrade christianity and jesus,Do not use the word muslim,

  • metonyme

    I would like to pose the questions: What do different Christians mean when they say they are Christians? Do they all think the same way and follow the same routines, both explicitly religious and otherwise? Do they all agree that their religion compels them to own guns, listen to country music, engage in domestic abuse, support the Republican Party, condemn abortion, homosexuality, believe in creationism/intelligent design? Do they have the same attitudes with regard to alcohol consumption, drug use, marriage and divorce, infidenlity, pornography? Probably not. There is tremendous variety under the label of ‘Christian,’ just as in every other religion, and much overlap across the ever-shifting, ill-defined, slippery boundaries between them.

  • hootie1fan

    If by Christian you mean the title one proclaims instead of the way we behave than I suppose, in a stretch, you could consider the USA to be a “Christian’ nation.

  • kreuz_missile

    harbinger317, you seem to not know your history either – the Founding Fathers DID learn from Europe, whihc was why they separated the Church from the state to begin with. The secularization of Europe is largely due to the corrupt integration of Church and state for most of European history, which led to a violent secular reaction continent wide beginning with the French Revolution. As de Toqueville noted, the separation of Church and State and the desire of the churches to avoid petty worldly politics led to its strength in America.Do you think it is just a coincidence that Agnosticism has been rising in America and mainstream churches have been collapsing in America since about the 1950’s, when the Churches began to try to push themselves into the political sphere and provoked the seculaar backlash in the 1960s and 1970s and making religion today more about the game of political football than about the actual values the churches are supposed to be about?

  • JayinPa1

    “Brent Baker, vice president for Research and Publications at the Media Research Center, says the media is making too much of Palin’s comments.” He has it exactly right. Palin is getting far too much media exposure. Ignore her. Let her buy the space and time. Stop running anything she tries to publicize. Ailes, Vigurie, Scaife, Rove & Co. are using the WaPo and other media for free. Wise up.

  • HookedOnThePost

    Christian means not Buddhist, not Muslim, and not Jewish. Christianity is what you aren’t, not what you are.

  • HookedOnThePost

    And I guarantee you that Sarah Palin does not care if our country is Christian, just as long as it’s white and non-Semite. Kristol and friends, who scooped her out of her corrupt Alaskan bliss, are the first people she’d stab in the back.

  • KarenCallaway

    How nice to read a Comments thread that is (so far) almost 100 percent civil, courteous, thoughtful and non-bashing! Thank you, particularly: Steelchaser, Broesam and Post_Reader_IN_WVA.


    I’m a Christian and an American! BUT, I respect our founders’ believe that everyone in this nation has the right to decide what their religion should be. Sarah Palin is anything but loving and charitable. She doesn’t share my believes nor those of my founding fathers.

  • joffacurt

    “so (she) could just mean that as a practical matter the nation is Christian since it was founded on Christian principles espoused (by) the majority of the Founding Fathers.” What is Baker talking about? Even if this is what she means, it is factually incorrect. The Founders may have held Christian principles but the Constitution was not FOUNDED on Christian principles. It was primarily based in Social Contract Theory.Palin has no voice. She is an idiotic puppet and an opportunist. She is riding her popularity straight to the bank.

  • barferio

    HARBINGER317 you dipsht, you’re as bas as ladyliberty. For some reason you religious fanatics insist that it’s either christianity or islam.What makes you think europe is going to fall for a sick religion like islam? It was hard enough getting rid of christianity.Only someone dumb enough to fall for one religion is further stupid enough to believe people who aren’t religious will fall for any religion.

  • rusty3

    Ask yourself. What would Sarah do without “Christian”? She is the ultimate pragmatic speaker–whatever works.

  • sroy91

    Anyone who tries to have a rational discussion about religion in the presence of “believers”, will find it a losing proposition. This reminds me of a story which goes somewhat like the following.Once a scorpion wanted to cross a river. Since it could not swim, it approached a frog and asked the frog if it would give a ride. The frog said – “Are you kidding me? If I give you a ride on my back and you sting me, I’ll die. Why should I take the chance?”The scorpion said: “Think about it. If I sting you when you are swimming and you die, I’ll drown. Why should I do that?”The frog then agreed and asked the scorpion to hop on it’s back. In mid-river the scorpion stung him. As the frog is about to die, it said: “Why did you that? Now I’m dying and you’ll drown. It’s not rational.”The scorpion replied: “What has that got to do with being rational? I’m a scorpion. To sting is in my nature.”And that folks, sums it all!

  • callosumlink

    C’mon we all know that for conservatives at least privately if not publicly, a “Christian Nation” really means everyone better recognize that the religion is the “official religion” of the US. No different in the sentiment that Amercian English is the “official language”. It’s not good or bad. It is what it is.Is there one self-proclaimed “conservative Christian” that through their actions one could conclude they are a “Christian”? Being against abortion and homosexual marriage doesn’t make you a Christian.It would seem to me every self-proclaimed conservative Christian on TV, including Palin, all seem to believe that they have the “gift of prophesy” in that they all feel that they can tell everyone “how it is”; that they’re authorities on what’s right and wrong according to God’s word. Sounds like the Taliban to me.Additionally, how do conservative Christians fair against Biblical principles regarding issues like “quick-to-anger” (how do conservatives feel about our enemies? Trial or immidiate execution?), gluttony (how’s just about every conservative male talk show host doing with that one?), vanity, pride (it’s “God THEN everything else”, not “God, guns and Country”-that’s pride speaking), spreading gossip that creates distrust (e.g. about Obama and liberals), greed and so on.Speaking of which, when the Bible says that we “…shall be judged by how we treat the least among us…” how do the conservatives fair with that? “Lazy people” and “we shouldn’t tax the wealthy to give to the poor, because the wealthy create jobs for us” ring a bell for anyone? And carrying a gun for protection? What’s that for? Just in case God ain’t powerful enough to protect you? Soldiers are armed to the teeth, and they still get dead. When it’s your time-it’s your time, no Desert Eagle is going to save your butt.

  • drzimmern1

    Its hard to read very long before you read the comment that America will be made up of a non-white majority by 2050. Writers who write this salivate! They can barely contain their delight at the thought of succeeding in depriving the white race of the gains they have made over the years. Along with that comes various new religions, but not Christianity, which symbolizes the past. Read the posts e.g. “the constitution was not founded on Christian principles” “saying we are a Christian nation is ignorant”. Such lunacy.

  • mpixton1

    The separation of Church and State means that the Government will not control religion, and that religion will not control the Government. That does not mean the two cannot interact together, such as school prayers, prayers at political functions, etc. It has come down to the situation that a select few disrupt events that the majority believe a religious input is not bad. If the minority does not like a certain event, then they can leave and not disrupt the will of the majority. Trying to be politically correct has, in fact, caused more harm than good.

  • jrubin998

    I am still wondering why a professional newspaper even give “ink” time to a governor who quits her job.Is it the sex thing. If so, put her on some porno sight already. If that seems to crude, put her in Playboy or maybe Playgirl.Enough is enough, she represents about 10% of the population of this country and those 10% are far from stable. For example, when a person goes to a rally and says, “Don’t touch my Medicare but I hate government” who are they? When they use the highway that crosses this land because President Ike wanted to have an national highway to move the tanks around easily and we continually maintain them with paving, police, fire, telephone and electric crews who are they?

  • ladyliberty1

    I am convinced that most who frequent these boards don’t have a clue what a Christian is. Their understanding of such subjects has been shaped by “South Park” and “Family Guy” with a little Jon Stewart thrown in. They support their presuppositions by googling everything. They pick a sentence here or there from some historical document and then use it to support their presupposition, which more often than not, shows their inability to understand the quote that they have used, and reveals to others their lack of knowledge of the subject. These posters associate Christianity with America or the Catholic Church. They never seem to understand that Christianity is individual. They think in collective terms. They seem incapable of understand individuality. That says they are followers and know nothing of personal responsibility and individual accountability. They make up what they think a Christian is. Then they judge people based on their made-up definition. They insult people with all their name calling, and somehow they think they are better for having done so. Go figure. They have about as much knowledge of the Bible and true Christianity as they have of Quantum Physics, which is nil.

  • prudencerussell

    I do not know what Faith Ms. Sarah “brain dead” Palin belongs to but, where in gads name did she figure out that separation of State and Church should not be.

  • FreedomFirst2

    The historical rewrite of our founding by the left continues, with David Waters’ distortion of American history the latest example.I love Mr. Waters’ phrase: “of course,” completely dismissing the facts as well as anyone who disagrees with him.The Constitution did not “establish” the United States as a Christian nation, because it didn’t have to – it already was one.When are you going to figure that out?All you have to do is open up books from that era – history, biography, textbooks, newspapers, diaries, etc. and its clear that the crafters of our Constitution and those who fought for freedom in the Revolution by and large were Christians, who wanted to set up a government where they were free to worship as they please, but not be bound by government to one particular Christian sect – as was the situation in places like Massachusetts prior to the founding. That is where the phrase “establishment of religion” in the first amendment came from. They also wanted people to be free to not believe or to not worship at all, and still maintain their freedoms and their rights.But these “modernists” want you to believe that our founders were anti-Christian, godless men who felt that religion should be completely separate from government and politics – that Christ has nothing to do with it, and has no place there today.Or, that these largely Christian men self-sabotaged the Christian religion for centuries to come by setting up a governent that would ultimately be hostile to their own faith. Makes a lot of sense, doesn’t it? I am so glad that in college we studied federalism, true federalism, the Federalist Papers, and the actual Constitution, as well as other writings of the founders. It gave me a solid appreciation and understanding of the purpose of our government, and a shield against modern day sophisticates who want to take God and Jesus Christ completely out of public life and pretend they had nothing to do with the founding. Of course, Mr. Waters doesn’t mention James Madison’s famous statement (and he wrote a good part of the Constitution himself):Remember there is a name – only one name – that sends the left and the modernists into a tizzy: the name of Jesus Christ.

  • likovid

    I don’t care about Sarah Palin, but the question remains: Yes, this is a Christian nation, it was founded by Christians and the great majority of the population is Christian. Obiously, the people who have come around to control the U.S. media are not Christian and they play down or try to rewrite on this very obvious fact.

  • mrhonda

    Most of the posters on here..even if they know what Christianity nothing of a personal relationship with Jesus Christ. They know nothing of what the Bible actually teaches. They actually don’t know very much about religion. Even if they do, that is all they have…religion. They know nothing of a personal relationship with Christ. As a result, they know nothing of true spirituality. For most who have posted here, I would say, please don’t bother in the future. Your ignorance of spiritual matters shines through as much as you say Palin’s lack of knowledge shows. Just don’t post.

  • barferio

    You’re a christian, LadyLiberty, for you to whine about name-calling is just, well, it’s “special”, isn’t it.And to be precise, it isn’t the individual christian practicing his or her individual right to believe as chosen that’s the problem here. It’s when you folks gather together and decide it’s also your right to determine for other people how they should practice their individual right to believe – or disbelieve, as chosen.It’s when you gather together and lie about our common heritage, christian revisionism is particularly nefarious at this.It’s when you gather together and see that science is disproving your magic and primitive explanations for how the universe works, so you decide to repackage your faithist crap as intelligent design and insist that all children be taught this nonsense.It’s when Palin and your kind gather together and decide who is and who is not a real American or a real Christian.Believe whatever swill you want to believe. Keep your stinking beliefs off my right to disbelieve them.

  • callosumlink

    You know where you can find the most religious people on Earth? Third-world countries.

  • thebuckguy

    A lot of ignorance about American history. Many of the founding fathers including Jefferson (who talked about “our Creator”) were Diests, a faith that resembled modern-day Unitarianism, which is to say it was nothing like the religion of Palin’s supporters. They did not envision a more diverse country (Catholics were a rarity, let alone Jews, Buddhists, etc.), but they also wanted not to emulate the state religions of European countries. The Bible was not a source document for the Declaration of Independence or the Constitution. The kind of country advocated by palin and her followers would look more like Saudi Arabia than a modern democracy. Instead of asking “what do people mean”, itwwould help to really explore where we come from. unfortunately, that would piss off the fundies and evangelicals, which the supposedly liberal WaPo seems loath to do.

  • dutchess2

    I cannot imagine any major newspaper caring about, reprinting, questioning, commenting, or even noticing what Sarah Palin says.She is a half time governor who quit public service when the going got tough to make millions from the gullible. She’s become the local cicus…a clown in an old tattered clown suit with smeared makup.

  • jamshark70

    I would have less annoyance with all this historically mistaken “Christian nation” talk if the people spouting it actually behaved like Christians.We must distinguish between those who practice their Christian faith with humility and grace, and the corrupters of Christianity on the right wing who want to turn it into a political bludgeon and instrument of hatred. As far as I’m concerned, the latter are not Christians.If a “Christian nation” looked like the former sort of person, it might actually be just fine. But turning over the country to the Palin-ites — big mistake.

  • veerle1

    Religions are as appealing as an all-you-can-eat buffet. Unhealthy dreck, that’s bound to make you sick.Amen. 😉

  • taid

    I wold encourage EVERYONE to read Liars for Jesus which demolishes very carefully and detailed this “Christian Nation” nonsense.

  • gannon_dick

    America is a Christian Nation. However, Mrs. Palin is supported by those who refuse to read the labor contract that has been in effect since Moses, past Jesus, past the Protestant Reformation, through Adam Smith and the Enlightment and into the present day.To wit:1. Moses, Jesus et. al. said feed the hungry, nurse the sick, clothe the poor, etc.My point is that you cannot call clowns like Sarah Palin Good Christians or Good Jews, and Good Muslims would have stoned them long ago as is their custom. Even Atheists know that human race does not prosper without the “Ten Suggestions”.

  • barferio

    Religion is an infectious disease.

  • steveboyington

    Funny. The evangelical I work with says that the majority of people who claim to be Christians are not real Christians. In that regard, how can Christians be a majority anywhere? He also says that the US is a Christian nation. Maybe a fake Christian nation?

  • rmorris391

    Another poster declared that Sarah Palin is the soul of the GOP? It is true that Sarah is a biblical name. But I digress. Most sunday schools teach something about the baby jesus. But does that make those sunday schools christian? Maybe they are exercising Free Speech rights. as a little boy, I always learned that our country was something of a melting pot…These days I work in software industry along side Chinese and Indians — these excellent programmers are not raised in the Christian faith in their country of origin.

  • barferio

    The test of any true religion is how true is it. How testable are its claims? How much does it rely simply on the number of adherents [fools] who believe in it, as opposed to any relationship to reality?As for those who differentiate between christianity and religion, between belief in imaginary gods and spiritualism … well, that’s good for a belly laugh.

  • 44fx290

    Well, Christian in the same sense that it is a slave state. You can figure out what I mean.I hope it’s not a Christian state meaning that everybody believes in some sort of silly force that makes everything right when we go to sleep, or some mysterious force that excuses us from rational analytical thinking.

  • Freethotlib

    spiderman2 wrote “But since the worshippers of the devil (evolutionists, atheists, gay marriage proponents, abortionists, fornicators, etc) will be banished, America will continue to be the Great Christian Nation for the rest of its existence.”Interesting! However, we were ALL created in GOD’s image. Perhaps spiderman2 should hedge his bets by at least allowing that GOD may NOT HAVE MADE ANY MISTAKES. In any case, I reject the “Christian” notion that GOD is vindictive or that GOD will reward those that discriminate against his creations and hate those that believe in such things as evolution.

  • andrew23boyle

    The idea that this nation is founded on “Christian” principles is simply not true.Some of the Founders were atheists and deists but most were Christian. It is not my intention to claim they weren’t. Their Christianity is not, however, what seperated them from their contemparies in Europe who shared that faith.The principles that set our founders apart from their contemparies were not Christian and do not come from the Bible: they come from the Roman Republic. It was from pagan Romans that the Founders learned the principles of checks and balances, of personal liberty and equality before the law, of freedom of speech and so on.What aliases did the Founders choose when they wrote their pamphlets and Federalist papers? Did they choose the names of the great biblical law-givers like Moses or Solomon? Or did they call themselves names such as Publius, in honor of the great ancient Republican (in the classical sense) Publius Syrus?After all, how many times does the word “Republic” appear in the Bible? Is Jesus of Nazareth supposed to return as the “President” or the “King of kings”? The Bible can be creatively interpreted to support just about any position but if it can be said to endorse any kind of government, it would be that of Kingship by divine right as practiced by David, Solomon and so on, and this is THE VERY FORM OF GOVERNMENT AGAINST WHICH THE FOUNDERS REBELLED!There is no point in pretending that most of the Founding Fathers were not Christians nor do I see any reason to hide that fact. To pretend, however, that the Republic was founded on their Christian values is worse than wrong; it could be dangerous. It is by studying the triumphs, tragedies and eventual collaspe of the Roman Republic that we can best anticipate any threats to our own and to teach young citizens nonsense about Christianity being the philosophical root of our system of government robs those citizens of the ability to do so and thus robs the Republic of the citizenry’s best counsels!

  • hitpoints

    Yes, America is a Christian nation, in the sense that our majoirty culture expresses Christianity through the traditions handed down by Christ and his disciples: Easter egg hunts and Easter ham, Santa Claus, Christmas trees – the hallmarks of Christianity embedded in our culture. We also are great at conducting war, like the Holy Roman Empire. I eagerly await Sarah Palin’s next gleaming pearl of wisdom.

  • Towson_Tiger

    If you can’t understand and explain that the underpinning of much of our legal and other systems is based on Judeo-Christian tradition, then you shouldn’t be writing this column. When you ask your rhetorical question at the end of the column, do you really expect much rational discourse? This is a WaPo blog site, after all.

  • ggwalt

    Who knows what Sarah means. She’s a total idiot, but worse she a dangerous demagogue. It’s true that Christianity is far more represented in this country than any other religion. However, our Founders were quite clear about maintaining a separation of church and state. Religion is bad for politics and politics is bad for religion. It’s just that simple. After years of bloody religious wars in Europe, our Founders were well aware of the dangers of melding the two.

  • Dugus

    An earlier poster commented about “Puritans, Catholics” etc. and the founding of America. As a proud Virginian, how many miss that fact that the first permanent English settlement at Jamestown was founded by a business, The Virginia Company, for commercial reward. Then comes tobacco, then the worlds addiction to it, and we grow from there. Virginia then has Jefferson and Madison’s opinions which definitely point to the founder’s views about this being a “Christian” nation, NOT! I just wish these people like Palin would get over it and quit listening to liars like David Barton (Mr. no history degree, just an amateur) and such. Some of us love the history of America and it’s good points and bad points, and yet feel we are patriotic as much as she.

  • Skowronek

    These posters associate Christianity with America or the Catholic Church. They never seem to understand that Christianity is individual.The above poster has no love for America, her founding fathers, her heritage, her history, or her people.

  • dkeller1

    Patriotism may well be the last refuge of a scoundrel but religion is the last refuge of a politician.Sarah Palin is so using these people who think there is a God who oversees this country.Many of the founding fathers knew the evils of religion in government and designed the US to be secular while allowing citizens to worship as they wished or NOT.Sarah Palin in any leadership position would be nothing short of disaster.

  • AnnArborGuy

    To be really honest, America worships at Walmart. Jesus is just a battle cry.

  • bobmoses

    My guess is that a lot of different people have a lot of different views on what it means.Of course, that won’t stop the religion-hating bigots here from making their ignorant attempts to ascribe one moronic stereotype to 62% of the country. It is funny to me that liberals who love to beat their chest about how liberal they are, are the first folks to subscribe to ignorant stereotypes.

  • nana6

    Palin has a problem with truth so it’s hard to take anything she says seriously.

  • jeffatgzg

    Palin believes that our founders intended this to be a solely christian nation? Well I guess that explains Article 11 of the Treaty of Tripoli, signed by Founding Father Thomas Jefferson and ratified unanimously bu the United States Congress…it reads, “As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion,—as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquility, of Mussulmen,—and as the said States never entered into any war or act of hostility against any Mahometan nation, it is declared by the parties that no pretext arising from religious opinions shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries.”Sarah needs to go back to middle school and pay attention this time.

  • ronin12

    When this woman talks it sends chills to my spine,especially when so may people cheer to her utter non sense. A nightmare is unfolding as radical right with strong religious overtones are accepted in large segment of society.

  • JillCalifornia

    Many Americans call themselves Christians but don’t practice Christianity based on the life of Jesus or the ten commandments.

  • whm99

    It’s the PC way of saying, “a nation of idiots.”

  • Skowronek

    To be really honest, America worships at Walmart. Jesus is just a battle cry.Good one! But I think Fullback beat you to it:”De Tocqueville pointed out some 180 years ago America is defined by Puritan Calvinism. He noted one had difficulty determining, however, which of two gods these great Puritans worshiped more: God or the dollar. He also observed that democracy brought about mediocrity at best. Palin’s in the pack.April 22, 2010 2:36 AM”

  • pechins

    Dugus you are so wrong. Concerned citizen3 said it probably best. This is a Christian nation. The early colonist were born in the Western and Northern parts of Europe where a Judeo-Christian belief system was in place. Most of the early founders believed in God and some form of the Christian religion. Remember America was born as a group of individuals wanting their own way of believing in God. They did not want the State Church that they had come from in Europe when they emigrated from Europe. That individualism in each of us has produced a Judeo-Christian foundation.

  • persiflage

    Who is Sarah Palin?? Oh, that dufus….have we ever had a president from Alaska? Since everyone in the nation that wants one now has a license to carry a concealed weapon, I wonder what her agenda could possibly be?? Perhaps that prosposed requirement that mandates that ALL citizens must arm themselves —– you’ve got to love the NRA. A little bit like national healthcare, but with significant differences. The GOP has opted for self-administered brain surgery……and it seems to have been very successful. A transplant seems like a remote possibility, although liberal democrat donors should be on the watch list…….. Of course, Jesus didn’t carry – and that could be a problem for the GOP. If liberals would stop objecting to numbskull candidates for president, we clearly would not have the problems that we have today…..or would we?

  • ladyliberty1

    Believe whatever swill you want to believe. Keep your stinking beliefs off my right to disbelieve them.GO THOU and DO LIKEWISE! Christianity isn’t a compulsion, it is a response. YOU have obviously misunderstood the message. YOU just don’t like it that some believe the message of Jesus, the Messiah, the Christ, King of the Jews, Kings of Kings and Lord of Lords, The Great Shepherd, The Great Physician, Immanuel God with us, Lamb of God, Light of the World, Bread of Life, the Way the Truth and the Life, the Prince of Peace, our Advocate, the Resurrection and the Life, Saviour of the World, Redeemer, Son of God and Son of Man, the Righteous One, the Holy One, Great God and King, Alpha and Omega, the Beginning and the End.Believe as you will. No one is forcing you to bow down to Jesus. Only in Christ is there true liberty. The founding fathers knew that. Oh, btw, Christians coined the phrase “revisionist” when speaking of history distorted by the left. The left then flipped the coin and called it “Christian revision.” Funny thing….liberals take ALL their ques from conservatives and from Christians. Their spiel is as old as the lie in the Garden of Eden. Nothing new under the sun. Satan is the father of lies, and he continues his modus operandi through those enslaved to him to this day.

  • micron26

    The USA is (and was) a ‘Christian’ nation only in the sense that the dominant religion are various forms of Christianity. The foundations of US law have a lot more to do with British civil law than anything in the (Judeo-)Christian bible.Someone should ask Sarah Palin what she thinks of the establishment clause and its role in this discussion…and then watch her blink and stammer when she can’t answer the question because she doesn’t know what it is.

  • arancia12

    “God truly has shed his grace on thee — on this country. He’s blessed us, and we better not blow it. And that’s why I talk about politics,” Palin told the 16,000-member choir at a Women of Joy conference in Louisville, Ky.Really? Sarah Palin talks about politics? How can anyone tell? It’s pretty hard to figure out just what she’s talking about…

  • areyousaying

    Like the code words “True American” Palin’s moniker “Christian Nation” stands for white evangelical or Donohue Catholic right-wing conservatives. No one or nothing more.Gays, liberals and racial and religious minorities are not included her theocratic vision of Jesuslandia combined with that of the seditionist Huckabee who want’s to overthrow the Constitution for his twisted version of “god’s standards”It’s simply Atwater/Rove politics of exclusion, wedge issues and division all in the name of poor old Jesus.

  • banewman1

    If going to church and pretending is the criteria, then it is. But in fact, Americans care only about themselves and what they want. I was raised as one, but I must have missed the sermon where Jesus said it all right to preach hatred, intolerance, and generally not give a damn about your fellow man. Jerks like Palin just use the Christian talk to pull in the suckers.

  • arancia12

    Then they judge people based on their made-up definition. They insult people with all their name calling, and somehow they think they are better for having done so. Go figure. They have about as much knowledge of the Bible and true Christianity as they have of Quantum Physics, which is nil.POSTED BY: LADYLIBERTY1Haaahahaaaaa! Talk about a judgmental statement! Just a little projection going on LL?

  • spidermean2

    America is a Christian nation, otherwise what country Jesus referred to when he talked about a nation that will inherit the earth? China?Some people are just plain dumb.

  • rohitcuny

    Why don’t we be charitable (and realistic) and admit that both Palin and Obama are Christians (sort of)? Certainly, between the two I would prefer to pin the label on Obama, who seems to have some idea what Jesus said, (even though the drones bombing civilians on his orders are not exactly Christian drones). But I will stretch the word and say to Palin, “OK, you too can be a Christian, but PLEASE, PLEASE, read the Sermon on the Mount.”I think Palin does need to educate herself, but I find the hatred of some of the posters towards her a little worrisome. Would anyone suggest that education in the US would be better if the teachers hated the students? Ditto for Palin. Please do not attack her quite so much. She is more likely to hear you if your voice is not full of hatred and anger.She seems to be a person who means well, in her own way, and needs to learn a few things. But the liberal establishment (which thinks it knows all the answers) could also learn a few things from her and people like her.The truth rarely comes in black and white. Gray (and red and green and blue) are the true colors of truth.

  • rd3

    America is not now nor has it ever been a “christian” nation. It is supposed to be a nation were personal religious freedoms are respected, but the new evangelicals and fundamentalists are apparently too bigoted, ignorant and just down-right stupid to know the difference. Instead, just like the Nazis before them, they believe their twisted beliefs to be superior to all others and have been convinced by the likes of Falwell and Robertson that this “god” they worships loves them and only them, above all inferior others. Only humans could possibly be stupid enough to worship a being or race that, if we’re to consider that even an ounce of truth can be found in the bible, destroyed both this Earth and almost all people on it centuries ago in what is called the Great Flood. Palin is just the latest of their new age false prophets whom they now rally around in ignorance, encouraged and abetted by jingo journalists who continue to keep these cretins in the headlines. Truly the blind leading the blind.

  • KeithGold

    To those who respond to Spidermean2:Why bother? He or she is probably pulling your collective legs with utter nonsense, or is not worth responding too. Period, end of story.

  • spidermean2

    “Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you (Jews), and given to a NATION bringing forth the fruits thereof.” (Mt 21:43)

  • LTC11A

    Ms Palin will use anything as leverage, including religion to advance her agenda..which is income and wealth. Do people forget she quit write a book via a “ghost writer” published by the Murdock publishing empire.If the American public…and perhaps a small portion of them believe Palin is some sort of GOP savor..then, they are as dumb as she is..Iraq/2005;Afgh/2003

  • DoctorT1

    What Ms Palin and her smug ilk mean is Jesus personally tells them whats best for the rest of us. And we’d better meekly obey every directive from our priest-warrior-leaders about how to live. Otherwise we’re ‘evil’, and ‘un-American’. Actually, that was pretty much the attitude of our last President, the Smirking Dunce Boy King. And we all know how well that turned out.

  • spidermean2

    That sums it all and other opinions contrary are just a result of ignorance and a large dose of stupidity.America is a Christian nation. It’s been prophesied for centuries already and ignorant people can’t do anything about it.The best thing to do is to join the winner and don’t bet on a losing proposition.Well, who can say that to dumb people? Why else are they called dumb if they don’t do crazy things? Surely they would pursue their dumb bets.

  • blackmask

    America is not a Christian nation. Christian=followers of the teachings of Christ.Teachings of Christ:It is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdon of heaven.Give to the poor, regardless of their religion, or if they ‘have a job’.Sully not the temple of my father with Mammon (money).So how again, is this a Christian nation? Because a bunch of people who claim to be Christians but don’t follow the teachings say it is? Right. Keep dreaming.

  • ignoranceisbliss

    This portion of the commentary almost sums it up nicely: “the nation is Christian since it was founded on Christian principles espoused (by) the majority of the Founding Fathers, that nearly all current elected officials pay homage to Christianity no matter their level of faith, and that the vast majority of Americans who are religious adhere to a Christian faith.” I would also add that the majority of Americans are Christians.God Bless America.Obama is a complete and utter DISGRACE. Progressive liberals phony moralizations and so called help have only imprisoned generational slaves in perpetual wellfare. Not one progressive liberal has helped human kind more than Christianity, or its faithfull believers. The Cult that most should be conserned with is that of the Progressive liberal.Progressive liberals, Jesus loves you.

  • rcc_2000

    Why is it the the GOP and Tea Baggers hate the Constitution so much? Clearly, although Christians, the Founding Fathers expressly decided that the United States would be a non-religious Country. This is well documented. Thomas Jefferson was not a Christian BTW he was a deists. Our Founding Fathers knew how religion divides a nation and oppresses those who do not share the faith of the majority. In fact, Sarah Palin is exactly the type of person they feared.

  • veerle1

    Spidermean2 is funny.

  • DaveHarris

    Sarah Palin is not holier than anybody, no matter what she claims her religion to be. She is a phoney celebrity posturer whose religiosity is just as fake as she is. Anyone with real religious beliefs would be wise to avoid her.

  • mradams

    People who define themselves as “Christian” run the gamut from desiring to kill people who work on Sunday to thinking Christ was gay. Palin reminds me of a minstrel show. I’m glad this is not a Christian nation, nor a Muslim nation. Taoist on the other hand might not be too bad.

  • greeenmtns

    Calling the US a christian nation is an act of demagoguery. It is intended to rally a specific portion of the population, those who would embrace a theocracy. In this, Palin is essentially advocating christian totalitarianism, not unlike the taliban. This country was founded, among other things, on the principle of freedom of religion, which includes freedom from religion. If Sarah Palin really wants to incite religious violence in the US she should know, that kind of thing often backfires.

  • NCDem1

    This is a good distinction to make – what does Palin really mean by the remark that America is a Christian nation?I think she means to convey three points:1) Most Americans believe in Jesus Christ as the son of God.Palin spouts all sorts of slanted rhetoric meant to incite mistrust of anyone who strays from her narrow way of thinking. Her followers simply don’t think things through.

  • arancia12

    TSCH38301, I’m not sure what you are referring to but the fact that the founders opened their meeting at Independence Hall only means they opened their meeting at Independence Hall with a prayer. They did not write into the legal document that established this country and its structure anything about the greatness of God or the necessity of praying before meetings. They certainly could have done this…but they didn’t.What they did do was write in a statement about the government NOT establishing a religion or prohibiting religion. You do the authors of the Constitution no justice implying they were too stupid to address the issue of Christianity.

  • suzeq

    IT IS EVER SO GRATIFYING that this discussion appears in the religion section where it belongs.As to what Ms Palin might mean — I couldn’t begin to answer that question. Most of what she says, in public anyway, is meaningless.We have real issues in this country and real problems to solve. Thank you for confining this never-ending silly debate to this particular section of wapo.

  • spidermean2

    Being a Christian Nation, it established the First Ammendment which was pursued by Evangelical Christians during its founding.And being a Christian Nation, gay marriage, evolution, pornography, and other stupidity will end in the near future.Being a Christian nation, it is tasked by God to rule the world with liberty and justice for all. 1000 years of total world peace and prosperity. The prophecy is bound to happen. What person in his right mind would oppose that? Only the dumb of course. That’s the reason there is Doomsday before it will come to fruition.

  • rmk1122

    I really hope that people understand that the US cannot be a nation that puts the beliefs of one religion over all others, as Palin undoubtedly would like to see. There must be a separation of church and state. We as a nation can celebrate or remember certain events and people that helped change and better our country throughout history, but please no national prayer day. I dont practice any religion, and i loathe organized releigion, so i do not want the gov’t to possibly tell me that i have to believe in a certain religion. Isnt that what the terrorists and islamists want…their religion to be forced on eveyone else and the non-believers to perish. SO i say KEEP RELIGION OUT OF MY GOV’T!

  • timechange28

    I agree that we are predominately a Christian nation but we certainly don’t have a Christian government. Jesus taught that we should pray for our enemies and that we should “turn the other cheek” if someone strikes us.

  • washpost18

    What do they mean? Nobody but they can accurately answer such a question, but based upon their observed behavior and words what they mean is whatever is most politically expedient.

  • revbookburn

    Palin must be a put-on, sponsored by The Onion humor site. No public figure could possibly be that stupid. Her followers are a great argument for health care reform and accessing psychiatric medication.Palin on the Constitution is like the mob on ethics. Palin on theocratic, Taliban-like blending of church and state is like listening to Pat Robertson or Mullah Omar.

  • momof20yo

    I’m so GLAD we have Sarah Palin to save us from our sinful ways. I thought our Redeemer would be a man. It turns out that God is a woman (or at least Sarah Palin seems to think she is our all-knowing, all powerful God).

  • TDog66

    With regard to this discussion of a Christian nation, I do have a question regarding the founding fathers and mothers: Several (most) of the commentors here have quickly and offhandedly tossed out the “fact” that the United States was founded by people of the Christian faith. Is that entirely true? Were there any other religions represented amongst the movers and shakers of the 17th and 18th century? I’m not trying to make a point, I just don’t know where to find the references for this answer.

  • hartman_john

    Why do major media outlets fill their pages with the nonsensical motormouth, Palin?

  • passap1

    To: spidermean2, who said the following:”America has two masters. One part worships the devil and another part are the children of God. But since the worshippers of the devil (evolutionists, atheists, gay marriage proponents, abortionists, fornicators, etc) will be banished, America will continue to be the Great Christian Nation for the rest of its existence.”To your comment, Christianity is such a personal experience. Why are ‘we’ judging others when we should be making sure our own house is in order? We’re told to judge, lest we be judged. We’re told he without sin, cast the first stone. We’re also told, thou shalt not kill – but we kill in war. But yet ‘we’ judge the atheists, the gay marriage proponents, and others as if it were ‘our’ position to do so. It is not. Live with Christ in your own heart and your example will shine through to others. What will make this country a Christian nation is to live with love in our heart and live by example.

  • hmaulden

    Blackmask has it right. Enough said.

  • spidermean2

    Guys, guys, guys,Just join the winners. That’s the simplest and the sane thing to do. Have mercy on yourselves and don’t bet your lives on a sure losing proposition.

  • rightdetour

    If she means, America was founded as a Christian nation, she is clearly wrong. The Constitution does not establish Christianity as the official faith of the US. It does not dedicate the nation to God’s glory or any other similar religious mission. It is not based on the bible. (Neither the records of the Constitutional Convention nor the Federalist Papers mention the bible as a source of political philosophy or political science).

  • kparc

    “Die Religion … ist das Opium des Volkes” Karl Marx; or as often referred to “religion is the opiate of the masses.” Or as Marguis de Sade wrote of Religion; “This opium you feed your people” “Mangiare – America – Mangiare!”

  • dkadin1

    So if this is a Christian nation what does that do for those of us who are NOT – as a Jew where do I fit if this is a Christian nation? What about Catholics, Buddhists,Hindus, Muslims and other non-Christians?

  • sherm1

    I’m a non-believer but I do think the that the US is uniquely Christian because Christianity is uniquely suited to the American notion of freedom. Slavery, Jim Crow, Indian reservations, predatory capitalism, preemptive wars, Hiroshima and Nagasaki, sexism, homophobia…..were and are facets of our existence that comfortably cohabitate with sincere Christian belief. In essence to declare oneself a Christian is an act that does not bind oneself to egalitarian and altruistic behavior. In terms of behavior, adverse as well as good, Christianity offers a big tent with room for all, and guilt for few.

  • harrumph1

    The United States is a Nation with a lot of Christians in it, but it is by no means a Christian Nation. Period. Get used to it.

  • spidermean2

    America is a Christian nation, otherwise what country Jesus referred to when he talked about a nation that will inherit the earth? China?Some people are just plain dumb.”Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you (Jews), and given to a NATION bringing forth the fruits thereof.” (Mt 21:43)While the wise will gladly receive that gift of God, the idiots will fight tooth and nail to reject it.By the way, who would want Doomsday to be the other option? Lo and behold, that is what the idiots would chose to embrace.

  • tunkefer

    The separation of church and state, along with freedom of speech, has created an environment whereby religion has flourished in America like no other nation.That raises the question of why people like Palin and many others want to muck around with a formula that has worked so much in their favor by insisting that government and religion be blended together.I think the unavoidable answer is the irresistable urge by some to use people’s faith as an avenue to political power.

  • bozhogg

    Ex Gov Palin would do well to remember that the so called Christian founders, stole this land from native Americans. So, in essence our nation was founded on the idea of theft.

  • jewishmother

    Religion, according to the Bible:Numbers 31:17: “Moses commanded them: ‘Kill all the boys, and kill every woman who has slept with a man, but save all the young virgins for your pleasure”.1 Peter 2:18: “Slaves, be subject to your masters with all reverence, not only to those who are good and equitable but also to those who are perverse.” JESUS KILLS THOSE WHO VOTED FOR OPPONENT: Luke 19:27: Jesus ordered them, ‘As for these enemies of mine who did not want me to be king over them—bring them here and slaughter them in my presence.” AND MY PERSONAL FAVORITE: Exodus, 33:23: “And I shalt take away my hand, and thou will see my arse.”There! ALL RELIGIONS are human organizations designed to exploit human fears in order to keep rich and powerful people rich and powerful.

  • Dliodoir

    Given their druthers I am convinced that Palin and those like her WOULD in fact remove the establishment clause from the Constitution and make Christianity the official, state sponsored religion. They will never say this in public or to the media but as someone who circulates among some pretty conservative crowds, trust me, I have heard this said and they would do it if they thought that they could get a away with it. The hypocrisy here is that they proclaim to worship the Constituion and the original intent of the drafters. They love citing writings by the founders proclaiming their faith and extolling the virtues of a Christian society. They’re reverence is selective in that the founders also clearly wrote of the need to seperate the state from religion. For some reason they never cite these passages?Anyway, this is what I always tell them: if you want prayer in school and your children to be taught about the Bible, etc, send them to a school that allows it like I do!

  • KeithGold

    We know it wasn’t the sub-Saharan Africans that would inherit the earth – the good Chrisitans made sure of that by enslaving them, and in the process, destroying sub-Saharan Africa.

  • spidermean2

    I think the main reason why some people are afraid of the term Christian Nation is because they have a false idea what is true Christianity.Catholicism is a fake Christianity and so is liberal Protestantism.Once the people understand what is true Christianity, they would embrace the phrase, Christian Nation.

  • bjameswi

    I am always amused by the assertion that this nation was “founded on Christian principles”, when I’ve never heard anyone actually say what those are.It can’t be egalitarianism; that principle was stated to be at or near the center of several religious groups, although you would be hard-pressed to provide proof that they actually believed it.Was liberty solely a Christian principle? Was the right to pursue happiness? Of course not! And yet, because most of the Founders practiced a form of Christianity called Deism (which today’s evangelical movements would decry as being not *true* Christianity), we assume that Constitution’s statements and provisions are “Christian”.Don’t be absurd, people! They were “enlightened” principles, not “Christian”.

  • roberts793

    What they mean is that in order to be a true American , you need to be Christian. Its just another veiled message to separate voters into groups and get the largest group to support you.

  • UsedtoBinDC

    I get tired of people continuing to harp on the religion of the “founding fathers”. It depends, first of all, of which historical figures you consider to be the “founding fathers”. They were a diverse group brought together only by their desire to birth a new nation. Later, they would split into opposing “factions”, the origins of today’s two parties. You also need to look at their expressions of belief in the context of their times. Remember, this was pre-Darwin, so no one had an explanation for how humans and all life got here other than to propose a Grand Creator of some kind, and expressions of doubt were literally unheard of. When you look at people like John Adams, Jefferson, Franklin, and Washington, who are the ones we most commonly think of as the “founding fathers”, they were a progressive group who today would probably be at least closet atheists or agnostics. Adams was a Unitarian, who today are mainly secularists of various sorts. Jefferson famously cut out all of the sections of his bible that were not supported by evidence available to his day, and Washington quit going to church rather than continue his practice of walking out before the sermon started.

  • wpmars

    Jesus rocks and so do you.

  • lcarter0311

    I believe Sarah Palin and most of those that claim to be Christians are all hypocrites.They know nothing of the teachings of Jesus.

  • mountainsister41

    What Sarah Palin and her teabaggers mean by “Christian” nation is really code for “White” nation. Why are their so few African-americans, Latinos, or Asians at these rallies? Why for the first time are these people carrying guns and high powered rifles to the rallies for all to see. They are scared. For the first time in history a Black man has become president. The more they do this, the more they isolate themselves in to a tiny corner of America. America has moved on. It is a diverse nation of many colors and religions. It is not an exclusively Christian nation.

  • jewishmother

    Religion according to the Bible:Numbers 31:17: “Moses commanded them: ‘Kill all the boys, and kill every woman who has slept with a man, but save all the young virgins for your pleasure”.1 Peter 2:18: “Slaves, be subject to your masters with all reverence, not only to those who are good and equitable but also to those who are perverse.” JESUS KILLS THOSE WHO VOTED FOR OPPONENT: Luke 19:27: Jesus ordered them, ‘As for these enemies of mine who did not want me to be king over them—bring them here and slaughter them in my presence.” AND MY PERSONAL FAVORITE: Exodus, 33:23: “And I shalt take away my hand, and thou will see my bbutt.”There! ALL RELIGIONS are human organizations designed to exploit human fears in order to keep rich and powerful people rich and powerful.

  • spidermean2

    The main reason why no countries are colonized today is because of a Christian Nation called America. America being the winner in WW2 frown on that practice.America is the Christian Nation chosen by God to inherit the earth.It’s a gift from God , guys. Just receive it with gladness and don’t reject it. You will only destroy yourselves. It’s there in front of you served on a platter. Rejoice and give thanks.

  • protagoras

    When Palin gets through there will be fewer (young) “christians” and fewer members of the GOP.

  • Utahreb

    Does this mean that those of us who grew up saying the Pledge of Allegiance WITHOUT the words “under God” are not truly Americans? Those of us who lived through WWII and bought savings bonds, went through rationing are not patriotic, actually sacrificed for our troops and government?Everyone seems to have a different opinion of who or what God is. Some seem to worship money (their god) – some worship power – some think God is a mass murderer (vengeful and despising cities and countries and bringing natural disasters) -some think one must worship within four walls to be “saved” and tithe – who is right?My belief? “The best sermons are lived, not preached”. And if Palin is a sample of “Christianity”, then I want nothing to do with it.

  • hasburgh

    Jesus Christ, Mary and Joseph as my Dad used to say whenever something wasn’t working or made little sense. Old Dad would say the same thing today if he ever got a look at Sarah Palin. A person who isn’t necessarily proof that god doesn’t exist but sure proof that if one does, its got a weird sense of humor. Why are we still wasting time with this punch-line of a former politician?

  • passap1

    Correction:*We’re told to NOT judge, lest we be judged.

  • lufrank1

    Palin’s Ignorance Shows again . . . Ben Franklin/George Washington/ Thomas Jefferson/Samuel Adams were NOT Christians in so far as actually believing that Jesus was anything more than a man.

  • DannyMSnyder

    When Ms. Palin is flying the friendly skies working as an airline stewardess (the only job that is commensurate with her abilities and intelligence), do you think she wears her MC HAMMER glasses?

  • Fate1

    King George’s Britain was a Christian nation, with an official church that everyone was forced to pay taxes to, whether it was your religion or not. The colonists wanted freedom of religion and so wrote this into the constitution, that the state could not establish religion for its people. Sarah knows very well what she is saying when she says this is a christian nation. She is playing to the christian base which believes this nation is not a multicultural nation, and should not pander to multicultural laws and different people. Now she may “SAY” that its about how the laws of this nation developed, but she knows that is not what she means. She, as usual, is speaking with a forked tongue. She’s nothing but a coward because she would never defend her position in an open debate. She’s a “post turtle”.

  • glazer68

    The Constitution clearly defines the separation of church and state, yet the Christian Fundamentalists keep hammering away at the “Christian Nation” notion. It reminds me of our drug-and-alcohol-addled 43rd president when he said “… you gotta keep repeating things over and over and over again for the truth to sink in, to kinda catapult the propaganda …” Sadly, the more the Alaskan Turkey Killer repeats things (death panels, anyone?), the more they tend to gain traction.

  • beaupre33

    Maybe when she visits the Wizard of Oz she can ask him for a brain.

  • glenknowles

    you have to take sarah palin at face value, since her thinking skills barely goes deeper than surface level. she means exactly what she says: america is a christian nation just like iran is a muslim nation. much of what drives the nation of iran is premised entirely on its muslim faith. likewise, palin and republicans want our politics to be driven by christian principles that seem to me to be very hypocritical and antithetic to what jesus stood for.continually we hear about smaller government which translates to a mean-spiritedness to the poor and the less fortunate. we hear about family values but the republicans, again, deny same sex marriages which in some cases include children. i watch tv evangelists with mega churches who encourage members to join the tea baggers while at the same time cherry-picking the gospel to serve their political ends. they quickly forget that in the last days, god will spread his wrath on “the church” as well for being false prophets and using his church to advance the agendas of politicians, financiers and other faux (fake) christians.we are christian nation in name only, not in our deeds or actions. we soft pedal hate speech, encourage the ownership of guns and other weapons, we preach that god is selective in his mercy and we use his name in vain to when we say that it is “god’s will” to whitewash our transgressions. as a result of the election of 2008, we have slipped from a christian nation to an “intolerant” nation as quickly as the “blinking of an eye”.

  • robertdsands

    I must say, after 51 years of listening to this stuff, that the concept that one to be a Christian one must have a PERSONAL relationship with Jesus Christ to be the one of the most ridiculous things there is. Why would God (or the Son of God) – the Supreme Being – the creator of everything we know – care in the least whether any one of us pays fealty to Him personally. God, by definition, is NOT a man and therby should require no such gratification.

  • upnorth

    What difference does it make if we label America as Christian or non-Christian? What matters most are our values and how we treat each other. Last weekend, I went to deposit a check at my local bank housed at Grocery store mall. I saw a 80+ old man walking awkwardly and I held the door open for him to walk in. He had an hearing aid and seemed to have had some hip surgery in the past. He happened to be in front of me in the line at the Bank. I could clearly see he was disturbed by something and I could hear the discussion that was happening. He was charged $10 for account maintenance and when asked how he could avoid that, he was told to have direct deposit in to the account or keep a minimum of $2000 balance. He said he would like to close the account. I knew for a fact that if an account is designated as a “senior” account there is no account minimum and there are no fees and this was never disclosed to him. On the way out, I saw him use the phone on the wall talking presumably to his wife cajoling her to make the trip to close the joint account. Whether we are or are not a Christian nation is not based on what a politician says, but the values we hold. The most vulnerable of our citizens are exploited for profit by these worthless banks who are always at the public till for bail out funds and what not. For a minute I thought i would stop and offer some help and advice but thought it would frighten this man more thinking I am after his money. We have let capitalism run out of control. BTW, I am no socialist – I am in the top 5% income group and believe in fiscal conservatism, but when I look at the exploitation of so many honest and hardworking Americans who are struggling I feel our values today are not founded on any religion so let us leave the hypocrisy out. Politicians cynically use religion to increase their own sales of books or to attract funds and get elected.

  • keeladog

    A new Christian Order is coming to America, with our Sarah Palin riding the white horse and carrying the Cross, God bless her! Those of you who are not Christian, you have been warned! Either convert ye now, or get out. Go to China or some other Godless hellhole!

  • DannyMSnyder

    When Ms. Palin is flying the friendly skies working as an airline stewardess (the only job that is commensurate with her abilities and intelligence), do you think she wears her MC HAMMER glasses?

  • Please_Fix_VAs_Roads

    You people can believe in whatever crap you want. No one is telling you that you CAN’T believe in God. But when you start telling people that they HAVE to believe in God by using the State to force it on them…well, those are fighting words.Tread carefully Christians. Religion in government means government in religion.

  • spidermean2

    Britain’s type of Christianity is fake that’s why Jesus was not referring to it as the nation that will inherit the earth.America is the true Christian Nation. If it’s not, the portion that in unChristian will be weeded out.You can’t disannul a prophecy.

  • keeladog

    Neighborhood councils MUST be established to determine the religious purity of each citizen. For those who fail to meet the rigorous Palin standards, other options must be considered, up to and including INTERNMENT CAMPS and other special handling.

  • JaneDoe4

    The signers of our Bill of Rights and our Constitution put in place the Separation of Church for a reason and the reason is people like this nitwit Palin.

  • rjregan

    Many of Palin’s “Christian” followers spend an hour a week in church. If they spent an hour a week in the garage, would that make them automobiles? She gives Christianity a bad name

  • keeladog

    Palin deserves to lead the entire world to the Cross, because John McCain nominated her for vice president and she lost.

  • JoshHamilton

    You can tell who was home-schooled by the comments.

  • historian_nan

    I have a hunch that most people who say the U.S. is a Christian nation have no idea what they actually mean by it. If you were to push at all, it would probably come down to an underlying assumption on their part that, no matter what branch of Christianity they adhere to, it is also the one that the majority of people in the U.S. also follow, i.e., by “Christian” they actually mean “people like us.”

  • jimfilyaw

    christian my foot! she knows about as much about jesus as she does nuclear physics. all she is doing is establishing her bona fides with the robertson-dobson cartel.

  • rappahanock

    So the earth is round. What is new here?

  • safmmail

    I am a Christian but I also know, that in this country we have a freedom of religion. So what is Sarah trying to acheive stating and restating that we are a Christian nation? What outcome is she looking for?

  • bernieandruth

    If being a Christian nation is measured by the extent our citizens and leaders follow the teachings of Jesus, definitely we are not a Christian nation. In fact, visit most churches and you will discover that Jesus’ teachings are mostly ignored. They are simply too difficult to even consider.

  • ttunner

    “Spidermean2: ‘One part worships the devil and another part are the children of God or true Christians. But since the worshippers of the devil (evolutionists, atheists, gay marriage proponents, abortionists, fornicators, etc) will be banished…” Actually there are 3: 1. Those who worship God in some form; 2. those who worship no-one; 3. those who worship the Devil, most of whom–like you–are deceived into believing you are actually worhiping God.The Devil takes many disguises, and his best is the disguise of Jesus. In this disguise he spreads his word of hatred and intolerance through evangelical preachers who make people believe that God is hateful & vengeful. So these followers believe that homophobia, racism, and other hatred/intolerance is the work of Jesus. But Jesus was about love, tolerance, compassion. The Devil is about hatred and intolerance–but he gets you to spread his word by making you believe you are doing the work of Jesus.When you die, Spidermean2, and you arrive in Hell, you’ll realize then that you spent your life deceived by Satan into serving his will and purpose on Earth–to spread hatred and intolerance.

  • PatC1

    Lipstick-on-a pig Palin is a shill. Christian nation, indeed.

  • logcabin1836

    “If Christ returned here the one thing he would not be, is a Christian” Mark Twain

  • rhinoceri

    Ornot, that was Blaise Pascal’s logic. Believe in God because it will only inconvenience you for your short life (even shorter on average those days) and eternity is forever. A bit cynical, and probably not what Jesus had in mind. Kudos to all for an unusually thoughtful and well-informed discussion on a hot-button issue.

  • keeladog

    Meanwhile, Palin is laughing all the way to the bank! She’s going to be the richest vice presidential loser in history.Don’t think her team of agents and publicists isn’t carefully orchestrating all this commotion about her. They deliberately script her highly incendiary remarks, just to gain more attention (and mo’ attention translates into mo’ money). And the media plays right along! And in your own way so do you, dear angry citizen.

  • flyersout

    YES, America IS a Christian nation!Not just any old Christian nationNo Islam beliefs among founding fathers.No Jews among the founding fathers.Three Catholics even associated withOnly good fundamentalist ProtestantsP.S. Jesus, like myself, was a Southern

  • dcmotor

    Sarah Palin is nothing more than a self promoter. Judging from the comments here and WAPO’s almost daily mention of her, it appears to be working.

  • SteveofCaley

    To quote the originator, who responded to His followers that if they love him, they should tend His sheep, feed His lambs…To the degree a group, a nation, an assembly of people DOES care for the least of His people, it the degree it might merit the claim of “Christian.”Would that we WERE a Christian nation! If we did care for the least of His people, if we did feed His lambs, we would not have to applaud fools whom we pay – to tell us that we are something that we are obviously NOT.

  • garycolangelo2

    Ms Palin and Mr. Obama are both wrong. This country never was and hopefully never will be a “christian nation.” Where in the founding documents or subsequent law of this country does it state we are a christian nation? The Declaration of Indepence, US Constitution and Bill of Rights are mute on this subject. Indeed, the concept of separation of church and state divorces all religions from the affairs of state as was a common practice in other countries at the time the Bill of Rights was written. “Under God” was added to the Pledge of Allegiance as an after thought, but this pledge is not legislated law. So, enough of the political banter about “under god.” We have more important issues to ponder and debate.

  • goldbergjeffrey

    We’re not a Christian nation, but we should be. And once we get liberals off the judicial bench and out of Congress and the White House, we will be again.

  • ladyliberty1

    Why are my comments being held?

  • rappahanock

    Only in America a stupid person like Palin is take seriously. We becoming a nation that rejects intellectualism and celebrates mediocrity. Shame and shame again

  • bigpapa_z

    I’m not a very religious person, but I have to agree with Palin here. The nation may have been founded by Deists and Unitarians, but the nation was developed and prospered on the backs of Christians.And what this story (and the same one on ABC Nightly News) fails to mention is that Palin made these comments during a Christian Woman’s Convention. Of course she’s going to make statements such as this.

  • flcat

    They don’t know what they mean being ill-informed and dumb. Repeatedly interviewed about their concerns with the health care bill they couldn’t come up with a thing except wanting the government to keep its “hands off of my medicare.” Ha.ha. what a bunch of smug know-nothings. And their attributes are similar to that chauvanistic party of the 19th century.

  • kemcb

    When a person talks to a god they are considered mentally ill but when millions as Palin talk with god it is a religion that must not be criticized! The U.S. is not a “Christian Nation” and many of the Founding Fathers who were deists wanted a separation of church and state for they witnessed the corruption and evil of the state sponsored religions both in Great Britain as well as the Congregation and Anglican Church in the American Colonies. The Abrahamic religions of Judaism, Christianity and Islam are the worse social evils ever to befall humanity with their intolerance, bigotry, racism and hatred of anyone who disagrees with their mythological beliefs based on their faith, blind trust or belief without any empirical evidence, none! Palin and the likes of Falwell, Robertson, Huckabee, Dobson, The Family, etc. all long to establish a theocracy in America, so beware! As an aside, does anyone know of an Atheist who tortured or burned at the stake another human being for being a witch or a heretic because they did not believe as they? No, just the myth believers as Palin and her supporters! Palin and those like minded Christians would murder today, if they could, anyone who advocated and/or practiced a woman’s right to privacy as abortion or any homosexual or anyone who defied their myths. Just ask Dr. Teller!

  • moemongo

    “The nation was built on the backs of Christians”. I’ve heard a lot of self serving bs but this one takes the cake. Let’s not mention the blacks, Chinese/Asians, Hispanics of all denominations who contributed to this nation.

  • veronihilverius

    Sara Palin is about as Christ like as Ming The Merciless from Flash Gordon. In fact… as far as I am concerned; there are no true Christians. You all make me sick.

  • spidermean2

    Japan ruled Korea for 50 years and it was a brutal rule. If not for a Christian nation called America, the most probable scenario would be Japan ruling the world with brutality.Liberty and Justice for all. That’s what a Christian nation stands for.1000 years of peace and prosperity.God bless America and upon doing so, the world benefits.We need a leader who believes that America is the nation of God – a Christian nation who doesn’t believe in stupidity like evolution, gay marriage, pornography, etc.The White House, the Pentagon, Congress and the Supreme Court may pay a very dear price (burned to the dust) for not fitting to the bill. They are supposed to be the institution that will weed out stupidity and not spread it. The Army burning the Bibles in Afghanistan and allowing openly gays to serve? Wrong move. The Pentagon will pay for it.This world is designed to be sane and not insane. Insanity as designed will self-destruct.

  • exerda

    SPIDERMEAN2:” America has two masters. One part worships the devil and another part are the children of God or true Christians. But since the worshippers of the devil (evolutionists, atheists, gay marriage proponents, abortionists, fornicators, etc) will be banished, America will continue to be the Great Christian Nation for the rest of its existence.”Hey, ever stop to consider YOU MIGHT BE WRONG? You have nothing but your faith to support this kind of crazy talk–no objective facts, no standards for comparison. That means that the Flying Spaghetti Monster or Her Holy Hoofness the Invisible Pink Unicorn–or even a teapot in orbit between Mars and Jupiter–might be pretty angry at your rejection of their “true” faiths. Silly? Maybe–but no sillier than the dogged, dogmatic insistence that Christianity (and in particular, your flavor of the month) is the one true faith.This country was founded upon _freedom_ of religion, and that means I don’t have to be a Christian, much less the kind of millennialist, fundamentalist, close-minded “Christian” you seem to endorse. And that _IS_ a provable, objective truth, just as Palin and Co.’s insistence otherwise is demonstrably false.

  • racerdoc

    Bet Palin would change her mind if she realized in her deluded little mind that JESUS was an ARAB

  • jaxas70

    An essentially pointless article since the constitutionality of the question is a settled one. This is just this silly, witless woman’s flawed misunderstanding of history.

  • dddvu

    It truly is astounding that anyone takes this backwoods bozo seriously. The media coverage of any public figure who believes that humans and dinosaurs walked the earth contemporaneously should be relegated to the Weekly World News or similar “newspapers.” I hope the GOP nominates her for the 2012 presidential bid hoping to usher in another era of a goofy leadership and rampant incompetence while underlings steal the country blind.

  • jaxas70

    If there really is a God then He is probably not the only one. And if there is a hierarchy of Gods then ours is probably one of the gods they want to keep as far from the center of action as possible. We exist on a tiny little insignificant ball on the very edges of our galaxy. Which probably tells us that if there is a God, He like us is out here on the edge for a reason.

  • garoth

    What Ms. Palin refers to as “Christian” is simply the civil religion of the United States. The United States is not, and probably never has been, fundamentally Christian. Contrary to popular opinion, its laws are not based on Christianity, and its guiding philosophy has never been Christian, but one of self-interest – the opposite of what Christianity teaches. It is a hedonistic and materialistic culture – the very opposite of what Jesus taught. It is engaged in war after war – also the opposite of what Jesus taught. It would be interesting to see in what respect they think it is “Christian,” other than mothing a loyalty to God that is not, in fact, practiced.

  • FergusonFoont

    I often wonder what motivates polling organizations to conduct polls on such absurd points as this, pretending that an opinion contrary to fact has any validity.It is not an OPINION but a FACT that our Founders not only did not intend the United States to be a “Christian nation,” but took concrete steps to ensure that it never become a “Christian nation” or a nation based on any religion whatsoever. Their writings on the subject are copious, clear, and quite strident in stating their intention that the United States was to be a wholly SECULAR nation with safeguards against any religion being favored over any other or none at all.Most of our Founders were NOT Christians, but instead deists or atheists strongly attached to humanism and reason over fable and superstition. It is DISINFORMATION to posit that our Founders had Christian precepts in mind when they crafted our initial form. They did not, they clearly stated in their writings that they did not, and many of them openly and emphatically opposed not only the imposition of religion onto our state in any way but, in many cases, harshly criticized the very idea of religion itself as being the cause of much of the world’s suffering.If this were a term paper I would give you extensive footnotes, but as this is just a little post on a blog the readers ought to look it up for themselves and maybe they’ll learn something to enlighten them better than I am capable of doing.

  • jfern03

    Sarah:Read your history (tall order, I know). The founding fathers that you cite in your brainless rambles to the braindead on your loserpalooza tours …DEPLORED that religion and state should be one and the same.But then again, when did facts and truth ever matter to you or the braindead that pay you any attention.

  • cuppajoe

    A nation made up of immigrants from every part of the world, representing every religion on Earth. Palin and her followers, the “christian right wing” of the Republican party, or anyone else who announces their religion is the “one and only” are suspect. What was once considered the “moral majority” have now marginalized themselves because of crack pots like Palin. Once believers are now becoming weary of the hateful rhetoric.Given time, Palin will show her true colors and will be meaningless as will the cowards that hide behind the soundbites and mindless chatter. In the meantime, each of us, as christians or otherwise must check these people at every step. I’m beginning to believe they are evil. But they will destroy themselves.

  • Skowronek

    Britain’s type of Christianity is fake that’s why Jesus was not referring to it as the nation that will inherit the earth.The sun doesn’t set on the British empire.

  • hyjanks

    As I am writing this comment, I’ve just read BIGPAPA_Z’s comment above which states, “but the nation was developed and prospered on the backs of Christians.”

  • Dan78

    If the U.S. is a Christian nation, why isn’t this in the Constitution? The words “God”, “Jesus”, “Bible”, “Sin”, “Christianity”, and “Christian” do not appear in the Constitution.The phrase “Nature’s God” is in the Declaration of Independence, but this probably has nothing to do with the Hebrew God, as the DOI was written by the decidedly deistic Jefferson (famous for editing the Bible to remove what he deemed to be utter nonsense).The U.S. is a Christian nation only in the sense that the majority of its citizens identify as Christian when asked by pollsters.Our government is based on enlightenment principles, not those of the Bible. The Bible’s preferred form of government seems to be an absolute monarchy (David, Solomon, Saul, God himself). There’s no mention of “liberty”, “equality”, or “individual rights” in the Bible. Sorry, you did not score a point.

  • safmmail

    I guess that is what Todd was doing with the AIP. and his attempt to help secede from our UNION? He loved our Nation that much???I would hope we are a Christian Nation, but it is NOT “Sarah Palins Christian Nation”. Get it right, it belongs to our Christian GOD almighty, along with the rest of the World.

  • dparks2

    So God blessed America. That’s fine, but the belief that God decided NOT to bless other nations is often implicit in this claim. If this is so, does God just bless states, or does he bless territories, too? How about U.S. military bases and embassies? Of for that matter, U.S. airplanes flying over “unblessed” foreign lands?

  • leftcoastblue

    I don’t care what Palin thinks — and I am making a GENEROUS leap of faith to credit her with a mental process that might be in any way described as ‘thinking’ — America is a nation without an official religion, christian or otherwise. The Founding Fathers repeatedly denied any such attributions in their writings, and they specifically prohibited all attempts to establish it in our Constitution. Anyone who claims otherwise is a liar or a fool Quite possibly both.

  • dboz1970

    Jesus would not approve of todays “christians”. The Jesus I believe in did not promote lying, racist, elitist wingnuts.

  • XWngLady

    “Who is my mother, and who are my brothers?” And stretching out his hand toward his disciples, he [Jesus]said, “Here are my mother and my brothers! For whoever does the will of my Father in heaven is my brother and sister and mother.” (Matthew 12:48-50)Listen up tea partiers. If you are lying on people, falsely accusing them, saying hateful, mean, selfish, racist or otherwise ungodly things about other people (regardless of who they are or their political affilitation), then you are NOT behaving as a part of the brethren. Plain and simple. Actual ‘DOERS’ of God’s will, those who love their neighbors, do not speak ill or falsely witness against their neighbor, those who are slow to anger, who are quick to forgive and who serve and have the best interest of their neighbors AND their “enemies” at heart…according to the Bible, those are the true Chrisitians.I’m not saying that if you have an opposing political view, you should just be a door mat, but you certainly don’t have to be snide, rude, obnoxious or untruthful to make your point (and that goes for professed Christians on BOTH sides of the aisle).

  • robertjames1

    Intentionally or otherwise, Palin and her supporters are attacking and devaluing the people who hold contrary views. She epitomises intolerance and raises the prospect of unconstructive friction.Palin does nothing for the nation other than providing a beacon for like-minded people who, in their hypocrisy, proclaim their superiority and a right to impose it on others.If I did not take Palin seriously then she could make a living as a comic sprouting absurd propositions.People like her come and go and whilst their fifteen minutes of fame shines they cause great disharmony, bigotry and unhappiness.

  • datdamwuf2

    Mr. Waters,I’d take this “discussion” more seriously if you would write about what Palin believes. Her brand of Christianity is pentecostal and not approved by most other Christian cults. She literally believes she is living in the end times and it’s up to her to help that happen and ensure as many come to Christ as possible. She literally believes in possession, and that the witch hunter who blessed her run for governor actually spoke in God’s voice. Palin holds the same world view as those depicted in the documentary “Jesus Camp”. THAT is why her being a heartbeat away from the presidency was scary to me.

  • bestbobleonard

    Jesus said, “My kingdom is not of this world. If it were, my servants would fight to prevent my arrest by the Jews. But now my kingdom is from another place.” John(18:36)

  • ladyliberty1

    Where in the founding documents or subsequent law of this country does it state we are a christian nation? The Declaration of Indepence, US Constitution and Bill of Rights are mute on this subject. Indeed, the concept of separation of church and state divorces all religions from the affairs of state as was a common practice in other countries at the time the Bill of Rights was written. “Under God” was added to the Pledge of Allegiance as an after thought, but this pledge is not legislated law. So, enough of the political banter about “under god.” We have more important issues to ponder and debate. The above poster has no love for America, her founding fathers, her heritage, her history, or her people. Those who want to “change” America, espouse the view of the above poster. They constantly deny the obvious. It is one thing to state that America did not establish a national religion on her founding, it is altogether different to deny her history and heritage – Christian, not Muslim. They ignore all the references to God in state Constitutions, and in personal writings of the founders. They are currently in the process of removing “in God we trust” from our currency. They are attacking small communities where the Lord’s prayer precedes the meetings of county commissioners. They are demanding that the phrase “in the year of our Lord” be removed from diplomas at Christian colleges. They are demanding that memorial crosses be removed from public lands. They have replaced prayers in the schools with armed security guards for safety, lining students up and patting them down for weapons. This was unnecessary when people were accountable to God. No armed guards in schools in the prior to the recent decade. So, God has been removed from government and society, and we now have children being abducted and killed by pedophiles, mass murders on school campuses, pornography and the sex trade, armed guards in schools, corruption in all areas of society. Yep, that worked out well. Kids have to be escorted to the bus. When I was growing up, we walked to school – no fear of abduction. One nation under God removed and replaced by armed guards in schools, and Congressmen and women needing armed protection. Good business for those providing security. Society under armed protection is an enslaved society. Posters like the above are here for their own purposes whether that be gaining positions of power or pillaging. They are selfish individuals with a vendetta and an agenda.

  • communique101

    Well, Ms. Palin ought to read something that takes longer than 60 seconds to digest. Find out what a Diest is and why Thomas Jefferson subscribed to the idea of a world operating without the hand of a divinity. A “Christian Nation”? Is that a threat? Give me the “Socialists”–they mind their own business more! If it comes to diminishing the separation of church and state which our patriots fought so hard to build, she’ll be in my crosshairs and at the tip of my musket–or is that a rifle strapped to my waist at Starbucks? I’ll need to be armed to protect my country and my right to not believe.

  • Ken_Davis1

    bobmoses posted:”Of course, that won’t stop the religion-hating bigots here from making their ignorant attempts to ascribe one moronic stereotype to 62% of the country. It is funny to me that liberals who love to beat their chest about how liberal they are, are the first folks to subscribe to ignorant stereotypes.”And the stereotyping of liberals that you engaged in is different from the “ignorant attempts to ascribe one moronic stereotype” by “religion-hating bigots” in what way, bobmoses?I’m an atheist but I do recall something about removing a log from one’s eye before complaining about a speck of sawdust in the Bible. You should think on what that means.

  • spidermean2

    What is Palin’s policy that pisses off some people?Is it because she doesn’t believe in Al Gore’s global warming crap?Is it because she doesn’t believe in Obama’s tax and crap (cap and trade)?Is it because she doesn’t believe in mandatory health insurance?Is it because she doesn’t believe that a bacteria can turn into a brain if one is patient enough to wait for millions of years?Do you hate her for that or are you jsut plain idiots who hate everything that is sane?

  • abu_ibrahim

    The Colonies, they started out Christian.First the discoverers and explorers, then the colonists, then the settlers, then the pioneers, 1500’s, 1600’s, they were believing Christians. 1685, the Great Shadow starts spreading from France, just as the Great Ash Cloud spread from Iceland the other week, Voltaire, encyclopedists,American Revolution, Tom Paine, Jefferson, by the time of the Revolution, there were Unitarians, they recognized the implausibility of the «Trinity», (the Qur’an says, ¿how could Allah have a son?), but there were also Deists who believed in a «Watchmaker» Creator, He created the world but after Creation, He does not intervene in the world’s affairs. The masses, they went on believing in Christianity, Maryland passed a Toleration Act making all Christians eligible for public office. Starting in 1859, the Great Shadow grew thicker as Darwinism landed on our shores, the universities, the élites, President Nicholas Murray Butler of Columbia, they denied even the «Watchmaker» Creator, they said the world created itself by pure chance and «evolution», an idea that is as implausible as the «Trinity».By 1910, America had become what it is today, which consists of Christian masses with good Christian heads on their shoulders (Mrs. Palin, she has a Christian head!), on top of which floats an élite of godless, atheistic, university-educated evolutionist secular humanists. In the universities, in the TV talk-show world (but not the radio talk-show world!), on the «internet», in Hollywood, at the NYTimes and WaPo and NPR, these élites make no secret of their secular humanist unbelief, But politicians, they need to be elected, so the politicians among the élite pretend to be Christian, they attend Christian services, but they do not run the country the way they would if they truly believed that a loving Deity, who neither slumbers nor sleeps, runs the world and takes an interest in our affairs.Psalm 104, “He peers toward the earth and it trembles, He touches the mountains and they smoke.” The Great Ash Cloud, soon He will lift his touch and the volcano will stop smoking, the Ash Cloud will settle to Earth, the air will be clear. Let us hope, and let us pray, that soon the Great Shadow of 1685 and 1859, of Voltaire and Darwin, will clear away, and the secular élites will see their Father in Heaven, and recognize that their teachers caused them to inherit falsehood.

  • jujones1

    Our heritage is Christian; our forefathers came from a European Christian tradition, so of course it is a Christian nation (Judeo-Christian?)- as far as that goes. What maybe we need to understand is that the moral tenets of Christianity are shared by many other faiths, religions, people. Just because an individual, raised in this country but not as a Christian, may not embrace the Christian mythology (and I do not use that term pejoratively) as many of us do, does not mean that Christ’s words (such as “Whatsoever you do for the least…” and “He who is without sin…”) do not resonate.You know, people like Sarah Palin (or the people behind her, as she becomes the newest, the female Rush Limbaugh or such) do a certain service – as devil’s advocates, they make us think, force us to clarify our ideas, maybe even prepare us in an odd way to resist those who would use Christianity or any other religion to justify bad behavior or failure to do good.

  • tcement

    Exactly where in Bible–Jewish, Christian or other unspecified–is representative elected government mentioned? Could not a case be made that any non-monarchical government is inherently non-Christian? Peoples Republic of Heaven just sounds odd. Congress of The Saved, worse. An independent Judiciary, implausible. “Constitutional Monarchy” is a fudge which, sorry, does not pass Biblical muster. Israel (as was) may have wanted a wanted a king but, in my uninformed reading, that idea was not viewed favorably by off-planet authority. Sorry, if you want a Christian nation, you are going to have to get rid of elections and settle on a Supreme Sarahtollah.

  • buckminsterj

    LadyLiberty seems to think violence, abduction, pedophilia, the sex trade, et. al. are recent inventions – just another reactionary pining for a past that never existed.

  • lildg54

    Sarah Palin the postcard for all thats wrong in America she is nothing more than a self righteous phony christian shucking and jiving for the all mighty $

  • barferio

    LadyLiberty also fails to notice that the vast majority of these crimes she mentions are committed by christians against other christians.It’s the failure of christianity that’s at work here, not the success of the reasonable.

  • GaryD3

    If we are a “Christian” nation, which flavor? Roman Catholic? Evangelical Protestant? Liberal Protestant? Mormon? Fundamentalist? All of those have PROFOUND differences between their views of God and man, sin and salvation. Many of the people making these claims are doing so based on their own narrow, parochial vision of what “Christian” is.In other words, making God up in their own image. I always thought Genesis said it was the other way around.

  • buckminsterj

    Several posters have claimed that America is founded on Judeo-Christian principles. Which ones exactly?Both democracy and republicanism, if common knowledge is to be invoked, are Greek – that is, non-Judaic and pre-Christian.

  • bertzel

    The Words of Thomas Jefferson…….all men shall be free to profess, and by argument to maintain their opinions in matters of religion, and that the same shall in no wise diminish, enlarge, or affect their civil capacities….believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between Man & his God, that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship, that the legitimate powers of government reach actions only, & not opinions…That being said…I believe in

  • spidermean2

    Yup, there is Hell and earth can be hellish for unbelievers. “Likewise, their men have given up natural sexual relations with women and burn with lust for each other. Men commit indecent acts with men, so they experience among themselves the PUNISHMENT they deserve for their perversion.” (Romans 1:27)so they experience among themselves the PUNISHMENT they deserve for their PERVERSION.I didn’t invent this. It’s been there in the Bible for centuries already. You guys have brains and dictionaries. Check it out what those words mean.

  • drfoodie

    “You can tell who was home-schooled by the comments.” – joshhamiltonNo, you can’t. I know people with Ph.D.s from Ivy League colleges who appear illiterate in print, and people with no more than a 4th grade education who appear erudite in print. An inability to express oneself in writing is not an indication of how one was educated or to what level.I also fail to see what your comment has to do with the topic at hand. It is gratuitously insulting without contributing anything to the conversation.If your point is that the incoherent posters are either homeschooled Christians or uneducated Pagans, you did not make that clear. If you were attempting to relate that to the debate about whether America is a Christian nation, you again failed to make that clear.Perhaps some elucidation is in order?

  • ken37

    Christianity is a corporation. Believers= customers. Customers=money. Money=power. Christianity’s about money and power. If it was about Christ, we wouldn’t be arguing over gay marriage or “real Americans.”

  • IHateIllegalRacing

    Palin can’t even complete a full term of elected office. She knows nothing of which she speaks. Yet there are thousands of idiots willing to listen to her.We have problems……

  • csintala79

    It is a meaningless appellation: Christianity, as with all other religions, is divided among a multitude of sects, disagreeing vehemently on many points of doctrine. Mormons consider themselves Christians, but virtually no other Christian group would agree. As has been pointed out before, the Non-establishment clause has more of a basis in the fear of one Christian dominating or excluding other sects than to protect other religions from Christianity. Many Christian sects consider other sects heretical, which is for a believer worse than being a non-believer or member of another faith, i.e., it is less evil to not believe than to distort the tenets of the faith. Christians should have a great fear of other Christians, which is where much of the persecution directed at them has come from.

  • philmphile

    America is a hypocritical nation, professing Christ while spewing hatred on blacks, Jews, gays, and anyone else that doesn’t fit their mold du jour.

  • morphylius

    Pit Bull Palin and her number 1 Dude. You can tell in one glance, whose wearin’ the panties in that household. Pit Bull Palin and her lipstick attitude. You can’t kiss her, can’t kill her. Pit Bull Palin and those sardonic, wicked framed eyes. Staring down those wolves. A killer at ten thousand feet; severed paws the final trophy. What a noteworthy and extraordinary act of achievement.

  • paulinlodi

    Americans worship War & Money, so the United States definitely is not a Christian nation. We have had a blood lust since Puritans started massacring Indians.

  • slamming


  • James10

    Comparing “meanings” of Christian Nation is really missing the whole purpose. The purpose is to further divide the country into those that believe this is a Christian Nation and those wrong headed people that don’t believe this is a Christian Nation.

  • red2million

    As to whether or not America is a christian nation, I don’t believe most people know what a christian really is. I don’t claim to be one, but if you believe fetuses and stem cells should be protected at all costs, but it’s okay to kill living human beings, (save in the case of capital punishment resulting from due process)I think you’re anything but christian. If you think “abortionists should get the death penalty” as tom coburn said, I think you’re not only a christian, you don’t know what it means and you’re pretty much a lunatic. I couldn’t close without saying thank you WaPo and the rest of MSM for making sure we get a daily dose of sarah palin along w/corrsepsonding picture. I’ve reached the conclusion that there is apparently a segment of our society that will perish if there aren’t numerous articles about this woman on a daily basis. MSM is as much responsible for any success she enjoys as she is, or even more so. I would love to forget about her since she has done absolutely nothing in life to warrant the attention she gets, but apparently she sells copy.

  • ravensfan20008

    If this is a Christian nation, I’m moving to Canada. Look, you’re big on Christianity – fine, I respect that. I am not. I want to be in a nation that respects all religions. Maybe most Americans are Christians, and maybe that will always be the case. Does that make us a Christian nation? No – and the second Sarah Palin gets her wish, we become another Iran.

  • james44

    Anybody can look at the Constitution and see that it only mentions religion three times: Once to say that religion can’t be a condition for public office, again to say that Congress can’t make an official religion and a third time to say that the government can’t prohibit the private religious practices of individuals. Nowhere does it say, in any way, that the United States is a Christian nation. That’s why people who think it is are left frantically searching for a sentence or two in George Washington’s diary that they think proves them right.What they really mean when they say “America is a Christian nation” is that they want the U.S. to be a country of, by and for Christians, right-wing and fundamentalist Christians in particular. In their ideal America, everybody else would have to simply get used to being second-class citizens. That means Jews, Muslims, Hindus, Buddhists, pagans and non-religious people.People who don’t fit the fundamentalist Christian ideal would be made outcasts or criminals, especially gay people (many religious right figures have openly said they think homosexuality should be a criminal and even capital offense), unwed mothers, free thinkers, etc.

  • citizen4truth1

    If being a christian nation implies most Americans follow christian values I accept the notion and am comfortable with it. The pledge of allegiance cites “one nation under God,” and it’s historical perspective and oath of loyalty to our country comforts me. I can identify with the context and intended meaning. However, if being a christian nation implies that we merge church and state, then I say we are not so. I reject any attempt to use this platform by Ms. Palin or others as a justification to allow the teaching of intelligent design in science courses or revisionist history to be written in textbooks as determined by politicians or christians or any other type of religion. We must adhere to fact over faith in public education. Religion must stay out of the classroom and in the church of whatever brand you follow.

  • jacquie1

    I take it as a statement of intent that the Christian right wants to shove their religion down my throat. Except we have that pesky little thing called a Constitution, you know the one they like to waive in front of everyone’s face until it gets inconvenient. This nation and Constitution was SPECIFICALLY set forth to not favor any religion over another and that they fully intended that the power of the government would never be used a particular over another to make decisions for the majority and to require adherence to any particular religion. However, as the Christian right has not been able to pursuade all Americas that they should be Christians, they fully intend to IMPOSE their religion on others using the power of the government. Little by little they interject their beliefs in our laws. Chipping away at the very fabric of the separation of church and state. They start yelling about the Constitution. They might have some cred if they even knew what was in the document to begin with. I view these people as our “taliban.” They should never be in any positions of power. If you have a religion, keep it to yourself.

  • kza7

    This article needs to note the distinction between nations and states; while I believe America as a nation is still predominantly Christian in both numbers and character, it is not, and has never been, a Christian state.

  • wesatch

    Christian Nation? Does that mean making money in God’s name (for yourself)?The Wal-Mart nation rolls on and on..

  • spidermean2

    You can find it in the bible that America is the chosen nation of God.”Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you (Jews), and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.” (Mt 21:43)It’s been prophesied thousands of years before already. Unless you guys have a means of stopping the prophecy, this discussion is over.It’s been declared by God Himself already that America is the Great Christian Nation even before it was founded.God truly bless America sans the evolutionists, atheists, gay marriage proponents, fornicators, etc. coz they will be banished as prophesied also.

  • Fate1

    spidey wrote: “Britain’s type of Christianity is fake that’s why Jesus was not referring to it as the nation that will inherit the earth.”Uh, Jesus never referred to Britain. You got a bit of scripture to prove it?spidey wrote: “America is the true Christian Nation. If it’s not, the portion that in unChristian will be weeded out.”Haven’t been weeded out yet and its about 220 years old. Maybe you’re thinking of the American Indians, who were weeded out by Christians?Spidey wrote: You can’t disannul a prophecy.Yea, well there is no prophesy that pertains to America. Your view is a delusion (I’m in America and I am important so America must be important). I guess that annuls you.

  • KevinAF

    Other than Christ’s teaching of “give to caesar what is caesar’s” I don’t know any other Christain principles upon which our nation was founded. People claim that our country was founded with Judeo-Christain values or principles, but have they read the Constitution and compared it to the Bible? Besides the fact that the Bible doesn’t talk at all about a Republic, where is the right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness? Where is the right to bear arms? Where is the condemnation of slavery? I don’t doubt that many (if not all) of the white men who wrote the Constitution and many of our first laws, were brought up as Christains and believed in Jesus Christ, but they were also educated on philosophy and government. They knew from experience and history that they should not have a government dictating to us what faith to believe. If only today’s very vocal fundamentalist Christains were more educated, or at least researched their positions before making foolish statements.

  • barferio

    Remember, o Christian America, if Palin and her kind get their way we’re going to become a Christian Nation – only it will be her kind of Christianity. Will it be your kind as well?If you think the heated arguments you’re having with the secularists, freethinkers, and other non-christian religious types are uncomfortable now, wait until you start fighting with each other over which kind of christianity is the right kind.But then, we’ve already seen this fight. Why is Europe so secular, so “godless” ?Nobody hates like a believer, nobody is willing to kill the wrong-believer more than another believer. We’re trying to protect ourselves from these wars you’re going to fight once you gain control.

  • salukiindc

    Why do we even care what this woman says? She might consider herself a christian, but she will go to hell if the christian god really exists.

  • imZandor


  • Hillman1

    “Now, if liberals would stop using their own uninformative labels like “sexist,” “racist,” “homophobic” or “extremist” to describe people who oppose their political positions, we might get somewhere.”Speaking of labels, what exactly is a liberal?I’m a pro gun rights anti-welfare (at least as we practice it) pro small government pro gay rights small business person.What does that make me?The term ‘liberal’ is fairly nondescriptive these days.

  • ladyliberty1

    Many of the posters here are still sucklings at the breasts of their mother “South Park” and “Family Guy.” Their irreverence and disrespect, combined with their lack of reasoning abilities, and derision of a person who has never done anything to warrant such derision, will soon be challenged, with a different god who is not merciful, and whose followers demand bowing down before Allah, or be killed, as the writers of “South Park” have been forewarned by followers of this “god without mercy.” Theo Van Gogh, a Dutch filmmaker who exposed how women were treated in that world (since my comments are being censored, I’ll refrain from saying the word too often), was gunned down, throat slit, and a knife with a note attached was found in the abdomen. This is what the writers of “South Park” were told to expect as a result of their mockery of “you know who.” For all you irreverent, immature, mockers of Sarah Palin, you have a fine future to look forward to under “the god of no mercy.”

  • jameschirico

    I have no problem giving a few islands in the Aleutians to Todd and Sarah friends seceding from our union to start the United Islands of Christianity. The Arlington cemetary has the headstones of atheists, Jews, Muslims, Hidnus, etc. that gave their lives so Sarah could spout her nonsense. She wants to force her beliefs on everyone. We have thousands of patriotic warriors in Afghanistan fighting people that want to force their beliefs on everyone.

  • Freethotlib

    The “(She) never said anything about an ‘official’ religion” BS is typical of an element in our country that uses DISINGENUOUS statements to defend the indefensible. Of course Sarah is talking about an OFFICIAL religion. In her world there are no other “real” religions and the idea that America is “not Christian” as she would define it is just not acceptable to her and her fellow travelers.Sarah and her fellow travelers continue trying to rewrite history by ignoring the FACT that our FOUNDING FATHERS (to include the Puritans) were for freedom of religion (meaning that all faiths were allowed). More to the point, our FOUNDING FATHERS were — by and large — NOT Christians as Sarah would have everyone believe — they were better defined as believers in Deism.

  • barferio

    Only a person incapable of reason would think we’re going to trade their god for your god.

  • Emmetrope

    Religions exist to explain the questions of ultimate reality. If a person holds Christianity as ultimate truth and a US law is counter to their brand of Christianity then… …problems arise.David Koresh

  • gunkmayl59

    The founding fathers were predominantly Deists, who, yes, believed in a Creator (please see the Declaration of Independence) and thus all men, as creations of this one Creator, are equal. These Deist beliefs informed the drafters of the Constitution in order to ensure no nobility, no privileged classes would develop (as they had experienced in England). That doesn’t sound like a overt attempt to build a “Christian” nation.Any nation can be termed “Christian,” but only if the majority its people actually believe and LIVE a life that reflects a biblical worldview. According to a Barna Group study (results published in the book “unChristian”), almost 80% of Americans self-categorize themselves as “Christian.” But then when asked about 10 lifestyle characteristics of a biblical worldview, only 7-9% (depending on age) actually fit the bill.It’s hard to argue that America is a “Christian” nation. It certainly doesn’t act like one.

  • Fate1

    spidermean2 wrote: “What is Palin’s policy that pisses off some people?”Oh where should I start…spidermean2 wrote: “Is it because she doesn’t believe in Al Gore’s global warming crap?”That’s part of it, especially considering the legislation she helped pass to assist Native American villages seeing the ocean rise. That’s sort of hypocritical don’t you think? Acknowledging something and then saying its not happening? Sorta like saying you believe in Jesus’ message and you want to follow Him and then act like a child calling others stupid?spidermean2 wrote: “Is it because she doesn’t believe in Obama’s tax and crap (cap and trade)?”Ask her to explain it. I dare you. You’ll only get a wink and a quick glance toward her hand, then a change of subject.spidermean2 wrote: “Is it because she doesn’t believe in mandatory health insurance?”We have mandatory healthcare, why not mandatory health insurance, unless you feel people should be asked for their helath insurance card before being taken to the emergency room, or children turned away from healthcare because their parents can’t afford the care? If you think this is fine Jesus would cry to hear you say it.spidermean2 wrote: “Is it because she doesn’t believe that a bacteria can turn into a brain if one is patient enough to wait for millions of years?”Do you or Palin have evidence to negate all the evidence gathered that supports evolution? Even the dog you may have is evidence of artificial selection, which would be impossible were natural selection not possible. But don’t let the obvious get in the way of a comforting blind faith.spidermean2 wrote: “Do you hate her for that or are you jsut plain idiots who hate everything that is sane?”Sane? Are you equating belief in the unprovable while denouncing the provable as sanity? Your definition of sane is insane.

  • ladyliberty1

    LadyLiberty also fails to notice that the vast majority of these crimes she mentions are committed by christians against other christians.Pedophilia, sex trade all committed by Christians?You show that you know nothing about Christianity. Muslims follow a pedophile, not Christian. Arabs/Muslims were/are the slave traders, even today. They were the ones who brought slaves to America, and the Christians had to deal with the mess they were handed.You are a fool, or just completely ignorant.

  • fmjk

    “”Lest anyone try to convince you that God should be separated from the state?”Sorry, Gov. Palin, the Constitution is what it is, not what you would like it to be. In this country, God IS separated from the state. No one needs to try to convince me of that.Notwithstanding the fact that the Founders were Christian, they fully understood the importance of having a secular goverment. It’s not anti-Christian, it’s simply non-Christian, non-Jewish, non-Moslem, and non-everything else, so that the Christians, Jews, and Moslems can all be FREE here. The fact that Christians are in the majority does not make it a Christian government — the thing the Founders were most afraid of was the tyrany of a majority.

  • summicron1

    i see this page drew the short straw on the wapost’s weekly “find a way to mention sarah palin” lottery.what does she pay you to do that?

  • spidermean2

    The reason America has freedom of religion is simply because it is a Christian Nation. Only a true Christian nation would tolerate freedom of conscience.This discussion is over. It’s already been prophesied by God Himself that America is a Christian Nation and with it is the responsibility to rule the world with liberty and justice for all sans the stupidity like evolution, gay marriage, abortion, fornication, etc.

  • jboal5

    We are in fact a Christian Nation. We were founded by Christians, and the majority of Americans today believe in Christianity (regardless of their practice). Goodness knows that a full 60% of Americans do not believe in evolution. This also reflects the Christianity, ignorance, or both, of Americans.I also don’t believe we should try so hard to embrace other religions. Perhaps we should simply realize what they are, dogmatic beliefs hardened by centuries of opression and ignorance.Perhaps someday people will wake up to realize that the persistent belief in dogma is the single greatest impediment to moral progress in the world. Faith in the religious sense is a belief in dogma, and inherent in those beliefs is intolerance. You can’t be a true believer of one religion without inherently believing the other is a “sinner” or an “infidel”. But I digress.We are a Christian Nation, believe it or not and the most important intellectual leap we can make to evolve as humans is to break free from Faith.

  • barferio

    Christians fought on both sides in our civil war, you ignorant moron. Christians supported enslaving africans to the point they were willing to kill and die for the “privilege”Pedophile …. uh, Catholic priests? Do you read the papers anymore?And, uh, try and understand this, I know it’s difficult with all that christinity handing over your brain – Islam is even more sick than your religion. Slamming one does not imply supporting the other.What kind of retard are you that you can’t see that?

  • red2million

    ladyliberty can you tell your god for me that i think sarah palin is even more pathetic than the smirking chimp, and also to bring his no mercy having arse right now? No one needs mercy from your fairy tail god. Tell him I’ve got some time on my hands around 12:00 EST and if he wants to go toe to toe, bring it. I’ll spit in his face for starters. Oooooh, I’m so scurred of the mean terrible god that’s going to get me in the end. Tell him and palin to consider themselves mocked and to respond anyway they deem appropriate.

  • Nan2

    I am a conservative, but get fed up with the Christian right continuing to turn people off with this incorrect msg and try to shove their regligion down our throats. Bush Sr lost with this alignment and the Republicans may lose if they try that tactic again. The US was founded on Judeo-Christian principles, and may have a majority Christian population (right now), but I have to agree with Obama’s (complete) statement that we are not a Christian nation as there are more and more “others”. We just need to keep our Founding Father’s view.

  • dave_sheehan641

    Wow, a plethora of comments on this topic! It is so ronic because few Christians agree on who or what a “Christian” is! First, this is not and never has been a Christian Nation! Back in 17 and 89 there were three bonafide and declared Christian Nations in Europe, Britain, France, and Russia. When the States United were formed by secret Convention and the Constitution was written neither religion nor a word about God, any god was included therein! Read it, folks! That was a distinct and deliberate departure from even formality in political documents in those days!We once were predominately a nation of Christians, at least outwardly. But we are not and never were and ought not to be forced to become a “Christian” Nation!

  • palmtree2001

    We Americans are a simple folk . . . We like simple stories told by simple people.Complex problems involving hard choices are just too difficult for us.That’s why Sarah Palin resonates so well with some people.. . . and that’s how religion helps some people sleep at night when they get scared of dying.Simple tales for a simple folk told by a simpleton.

  • sherm1

    Regardless of whether or not this is a Christian nation, it certainly did not start out as a Jesus nation. Slaves were not freed, land and wealth were not redistributed, the layered hierarchy of power and influence was not disestablished. In simple terms altruism and egalitarianism were not the bedrock values of the founding fathers, regardless of some beatific wording in the Constitution. Granting freedom of religion hardly took any bread off the table or put any on. But over time, and at glacial pace, the country has has moved in Jesus’ direction. Slavery ended, its offspring Jim Crow finally ended, women got the right to vote, Social Security and Medicare distributed wealth for the good of the community, consumers got some protection, Miranda, now health care reform (?). These are all acts for the benefit of the community, and I think what Jesus had in mind. And what Ms Sarah can never acknowledge, in political terms it was and is the movement to the Left, against the baricades of the Right, that is bringing us closer to Jesus.

  • PaulEVirgo

    First, the term ‘Christian’ was something that was (sneeringly) given to those who believed and followed Christ…by those who were worshipers of pagan gods.

  • ladyliberty1

    Barferio,Retardation happens when you do too many drugs, and go to “special schools” where you are told that you are a “victim” of society, and that you came from primordial slime and will return to primordial slime with nothing in-between. You are told that Obama will give you an i-pod, and money so that you can buy more of the same that made you retarded in the first place. Then you are told to go into a little booth and find the big “D” and put your “x” by that box and it will be “Christmas” oops that word is no longer allowed, what’s a good replacement word for gifts given at a special time of the year during winter soltice? Oh, well, you get the picture. Hopefully, someone else is reading and interpreting these comments to you. You didn’t learn much at that “special” school..

  • red2million

    I’m sorry ladyliberty, i must have lost my head for a moment. On second thought, sign me up. I could follow Jesus, the forgving kind, but I like yours better. Bow down or I’ll be killed? Now that is one loving, understanding and merciful god. Never ceases to amaze me the things seemingly otherwise intelligent people will be believe. Worship me or die? that’s the god you follow? some dumb sheep in this world is all I can say.

  • FredEvil

    Funnily enough, most of those following Palin, and screaming about Obama’s violations of the Constitution (though they have serious trouble in pointing any of them out), are themselves the ones who are violating the Constitution with their insistence that America is a Xtian nation, and by trying to force their religion on the rest of us.It seems the grade school education about religious tolerance and freedom was wasted on them. Or perhaps they’re all products of the Texas school system, which makes up it’s own BS as it goes along.Do you want me to inflict my religion on you? (All hail the Flying Spaghetti Monster)Remember, only one of us is violating the Constitution!!

  • johnnormansp

    Many of the founding father’s were deists, and a deist is not a “believer” in the modern sense of the word. For one thing, they believed that God only manifested himself through nature, and that all sacred scriptures, including the Bible, were mere inventions of man. But of course Christians will keep saying the Founding Fathers were “believers” because Christians think that as long as they themselves believe something, that makes it true. In other words, none of their tendentious prevarications are lies, in their own minds.

  • tfspa

    Don’t bother asking Palin to explain – comedians don’t explain their jokes. I have always wondered what being a Christian nation means. Christ is not mentioned anywhere in our founding documents, just nebulous references to creator and god here and there. No commitments there! So it is certainly not Christian in the sense that, for example, Iran is an Islamic nation or Israel is a Jewish state. Is it because of Christianity’s moral principles like don’t kill people, rob people, and stuff like that? Coincidentally every other religion has those same principles. That would mean we are Buddhist as well as Christian. But somehow I doubt that is their message. Christ and his followers has a strong socialist – even communist – streak. Christ was skeptical of people accumulating wealth and didn’t advocate arming one’s self. He was the original “turn the other cheek” guy. So…it’s pretty unlikely Palin & Co. think it is Christian in an economic or defense context. But you never know. Someone who comes up with Death Panels is capable of a lot of free association. Does it mean that most of the founders were at least nominally Christian? That would be true, but then so many of the key Founders (e.g., Jefferson, Franklin) were not the sort of Christians that would find a home in Palin’s church. Indeed, notice the history revisionists on the Texas ed board downplaying Jefferson these days for that reason.Let’s be honest. The phrase usually – but not always – is used in the context of “liberals are bad, conservatives are good.” Conservatives are attempting to gain moral superiority by claiming Christ is on their side. So really, this all boils down to hyperbole. It’s just someone trying to get their own way or to point fingers and score points, at Christ’s expense. In my world view, Christ was a liberal, a revolutionary. Certainly not a conservative. If I were ever to invoke the phrase, it is unlikely the bible crowd would agree with me.

  • Emmetrope

    Does Profit Sarah go along with the Christian ideal of ordaining lesbians?=

  • anne_o_nymous

    @ post_reader_in_wv – Very well-written and thought-out.The separation of church and state cuts both ways. That’s evident in the text of the First Amendment. The free exercise clause and the establishment clause are two sides of the same coin. The former prevents the government from infringing on the rights of religious people to worship, as they wish, in public; the latter prevents the government from establishing any particular religious doctrine. And the examples you cite are dead-on; no one wants to see the U.S. turn into either Iran *or* the Soviet Union.

  • Nparry

    I’m sure Sarah Pay-Lin can’t even spell Christian correctly.

  • Freethotlib

    LADYLIBERTY1 –As far as I know — using history as a basis — more people have been killed in GOD’s name than for any other cause. GOD being used by Christians (Crusades), Muslims (Jihads), and most nations (Third Reich military belt buckles had GOD MIT UNS). GOD was instrumental in the thinking of the Puritans as they murdered native Americans (the death of the Indians was retribution sanctified by GOD) against the Indians. GOD was used by the Spanish as tool for destroying Central American and South American Indian civilizations. Not that GOD wanted the people killed — merely that the leaders (and Sarah is portraying herself as a leader) USE GOD in their programs (or pogroms) as a cover. I fear the Bible (or Koran) wavers as much as I fear the flag wavers. They are all about power — not freedom.

  • houstonian

    We all know what Palin meant. Let’s not forget for selective reasons shall we that it was President Obama who proclaimed to the world that is not a Chrisitan nation. What did President Obama mean by that. What was he saying. Get the point. We can get as silly as we want in the questions we ask, but the reality is faith isn’t it. Remove faith and provide nothing but entitlements and what do you have. President Obama of course and let’s not pretend no one is more jealous then President Obama if he can’t get all the love and attention for what he claims is for the people. It makes sense the attacks on Christians. President Obama has attacked everything else about this country so why not Christians. Didn’t President Obama say he wants to fundamentally change and transform this country. He wasn’t talking just about the businesses, banks, health, and politics. He was talking about religion as well. The Democrats who sacrificed their careers and retired said they did so because they wanted to be on the right side of history. History? They did it because they wanted the blessings of President Obama. Reports after reports came out agreeing with what President Obama guaranteed, but were contradicted by actual reports. History? No, they wanted the blessings of President Obama. Judge Crabb made a ruling about day of prayer. History? No, she wanted the blessings of President Obama. President Obama sits above everyone else, looks down and says he amused by the Tea Partiers. Who needs prayers when there’s the entitlement country President Obama is building and let’s not pretend it’s the Christians who’s the problem here.

  • Krazijoe

    The US does have christianity at it’s roots but then again we also have had Salem Witch Trials, Slavery, near genocide of the Native Americans, Capital Punishment etc all by the so called Christians in our great nation. People seem to forget about that aspect of our nation…

  • Emmetrope

    Posted by Ladylobotomy: =====================================

  • kuato

    I composed a response and posted it to this thread. There was nothing even remotely offensive in what I wrote. Why is my post not here?

  • KevinAF

    Posted by MPIXTON1: “It has come down to the situation that a select few disrupt events that the majority believe a religious input is not bad. If the minority does not like a certain event, then they can leave and not disrupt the will of the majority. Trying to be politically correct has, in fact, caused more harm than good.”So according to this statment, minorities don’t have rights, or at least they don’t have the same rights as the majority to be at certain events. Minorities just need to leave and not be disruptive while the majority figures out how to further limit minority rights. Fortunately we are a republic with checks and balances so we don’t have the tyranny of the majority. As far as “politically correct” is concerned, it has done a lot of good for everyone in the United States except white male supremacists. PC has become pejorative becasue racists, sexists, and homophobes don’t want to be faced with their own ugliness. So they attack those that hold up the mirror. Words matter.

  • st50taw

    Who cares? It’s not.

  • jeffc6578

    How is America “free” if I have no freedom FROM religion? Especially Sarah Palin’s brand of hatred, ignorance and bigotry?

  • tboyer33

    America was settled by people who wanted to be free of state religion. The founders were ESCAPING well-meaning Christian pedants who wanted to save their souls by forcing them to be Catholic or Puritan or whatever.They wanted to worship in their own denominations, in their own ways. So they came to America. So now here we are 250 years, 300 years later, and Christian pedants like Sarah Palin want to demolish the First Amendment and have a state religion. Fine if you want to amend the constitution to cut out the First Amendment — go ahead and put that in the Republican Party platform and run on it!But PLEASE don’t try to pass it off as something the founders would have wanted. They fled England and Europe to get AWAY from the Sarah Palins of their day.

  • Chaotician

    I am willing to accept the idea that we are a nation whose people are members of various Christian religions; but I reject completely any notion that we are a Christian country! And I will oppose in everyway the misguided attempts by Christian peoples to make this country Christian. I do believe that the peoples of our country would be better both finanically and spiritually if they were not involved in any way with any religion, most especially the Christian varities and definitely those lost in the evangelical, fundamental religious business!

  • spidermean2

    Both camps are right. There are two Americas. One that is Christian and another that’s not Christian. The question is, WHO WILL INHERIT AMERICA? The Bible said that the unbelievers camp will be banished so therefore a few years from now, only one camp would exist and only one camp will be right.By then the only true conclusion would be America is Christian Nation. Clear?

  • barferio

    LadyLobotomy, continuous serial moron, I did not vote for Obama. I have a perfect record of not voting for democrats, I even voted for Reagan twice. When Pat Robertson in 1988 decided he wanted to be president for eternal life I abandoned the republicans as well.I don’t do drugs, I don’t even drink. I have epilepsy, so they were never on the menu for me.Your side is losing in this debate, reason will eventually win out over dark age and iron age superstitions … you know what that means, people who still believe in fairy tales like you are being more and more marginalized for the complete fools and pathetic juveniles you really are.No wonder you’re fighting so hard. You can see the future when only the truly stupid will believe this crap, and you have just enough intelligence to realize it won’t include you.

  • lartfromabove

    America is a mostly Christian nation, but that’s just demographics and it’s very bad politics. When the nation was founded, “Christian” very clearly incorporated a degree of religious plurality; the Pilgrims came to America to escape persecution from others’ definition of the term “Christian”. That’s the danger today: the same people who say that those who disagree with them aren’t “real Americans” will say that Catholics, Mormons, and even a lot of liberal mainstream Protestants aren’t really “Christian”. And insofar as the paradigm is used to exclude and marginalize Jews, Muslims, atheists, and others, it’s a usage the Founding Fathers and most Americans today would reject. The other issue, of course, is that a lot of these so-called “Christians” seem to have a faith that ignores just about every word Jesus said in the Gospels. These neo-Pharisees may make a lot of noise in the front of their temples, and a lot of money, but they have no business dictating the business of the nation or the beliefs (and more specifically teaching) of anyone else.

  • tboyer33

    The very people who always declare that government is the problem, not the solution — well these are the same people arging to get government involved in promoting one religion over another. The VERY thing that government shouldn’t do, they want to use government to do.

  • YEAL9

    “Most people are satisfied that their own faith is the true one or at least good enough to satisfy their religious and emotional needs. Had (Sarah Palin), St. Augustine or St. Thomas Aquinas been born in Mecca at the start of the present century, the chances are that they would not have been Christians but loyal followers of the prophet Mohammed.”

  • mibrooks27

    Most of the left wing posters here don’t even know what they are talking about. Obama recently removed Franklin Graham from his “prayer day” group. Now, Graham runs an organization named “Samaritan’s Purse” that simply hands out food, medicine, and clothing to poor people all over the world. They don’t “preach” and they are political at all. Obama and his hatchet men tossed Graham because Graham *IS* a political, wouldn’t endorse Obama’s policies. Whatever sins Palin is guilty of, Obama has been wallowing in them for a long time.

  • Emmetrope

    We all know what Palin meant. Posted by: houstonian

  • kevin1231

    This is a load of crap being piled up by the Washington Post in an attempt to keep flying the Palin banner. Apparently, this newspaper has nothing but contempt for its readers.

  • bucknackt1

    All the words about a nation being Christian are just words….proof of faith is not so much in word as in deed, and God will determine if our actions towards the residents of this nation and the rest of the world are Christian or not.

  • lindarc

    Palin a christian???? To Lie (consistently without repentance), stealing from the state of Alaska,inciting racial hatred and bigotry; on so many levels this woman cannot speak to my country about being a christian. She’s what we call a faker…

  • grinnellstephen

    Sarah Palin (I refuse to call her “Governor” since she chose to quit on her constituents) has been spouting off lately about how America can’t be weak and should use its military might around the globe. Does that scare anyone who would prefer NOT to start a global religious war?

  • LDTRPT25

    indian51:You post that the majority of american’a are christians–sadly you are mistaken,the majority of american’s don’t attend church and that’s part of being a christian.What’s happening is the majority of the younger generation do not attend church and that’s bad for the future of churches as well as religion

  • shark89

    It means a place for people with tiny hands like the BK guy and SP, only on a nationwide scale. Once the speeches chill, there is a second calling, and no CGI needed. What a deal.

  • DannyMSnyder

    I heart Sarah! Go! Go! Go! You’re smart, savvy, and have great MC HAMMER glasses. Woo Hoo!

  • merladop

    The first colonists weren’t here for religious reasons, but for financial gain (Roanoke Colony, about 1587, and Jamestown 1607). This was years before the Puritans came here for religious freedom, which for them meant freedom to practice their brand of Christianity and to banish and murder those who deviated from their dogma–e.g, Baptists. And who among those who say the founding fathers were “Christian” has studied the language of those men, few of whom regularly attended church, and many of whom used words such as “creator” rather than referring to the Christian “God” or “Jesus”.

  • rbaldwin2

    Your premise and the Swag-Hag’s fake meme (and yours) is again, wrong. READ THE FOUNDING DOCUMENTS OF OUR NATION! Since the Swag-Hag CAN’T read and she’s leaving this open to the interpretation of her highly compensated (from her PAC), but extremely un-educated minions, they need to do their homework before they let this FAKE preacher go out in public…She’s an international embarrassment for the US… get her off the world stage and back to school !!

  • barferio

    Sarah Palin is not the dumbest person in America – she’s found her niche and it’s making her a millionaire. There are many people raking over the christians for money that are less intelligent than she is.She’s not the worst, she’s just the latest.

  • CalP

    America maybe a Christian nation, but that would be a choice made by Americans through the Founding Fathers. Religion is a choice usually made because of parental guidance or the experience from parents, family and community. It is unfortunate that we , so often, confuse acceptance of religion and faith in God.Even if one believes in the Christian religion, we must believe in the one God, who should be accepted as the Father of all religions. We should recall that in the Christian religion we state that Christ’s death, was a full and sufficient sacrifice for the sins of “ALL MANKIND”, which should make the Christian religion to be all inclusive, whether one is a Christian or not when it comes to God’s influence.The real problem with religion is not with God, it is with theChristian concept of God that appears to place the Christian religion above all others, while those who resist this concept, mistakenly, believe that by fighting against Christianity they are solving the problem.I believe that all Christians should read the book of Galatians, in which it states that any man of faith, the same will be blessed with faithful Abraham. One can have faith in God, without being a Christian. Therefore, one nation under God does not confine itself to Christian influence only, unless that is the preference of all Americans.We also suffer from the confusion of believing that Christ preached separation of Church and state. He spoke instead of separation of the things that are Caesar’s (rule/government) of man, and faith in God, which is what God desires of all of us, whether Christian or not. It was not just about the Christian religion and government.

  • Emmetrope

    As per James Somerville: Kids need to develop thinking skills before they are exposed to religions. Fair is fair.

  • frantaylor

    I can’t believe that there are still people out there who use the “majority” argument as an excuse for advancing their religious agenda. Can you name a SINGLE civil right that was won through the popular vote? I don’t think so. The WHOLE POINT behind civil rights is that they are NOT those of the majority.We would still have slaves and women would not be voting if we used the “popularity” argument for our civil rights.But as many point out, Christians never let facts or the law get in their way in their Crusade to trample civilization.

  • foxtrot1

    I don’t know if we are a Christian nation. There seem to be traditional (Presbyterian, Lutheran, COGIC, Catholic, etc.) Christian churches in almost every town and big new Fundamentalist Christian churches are everywhere. Among my friends and acquaintances, many are Buddhist, Unitarian, Mormon or just spiritual with no religious affiliation. From what I understand, the Sarah Palin/fundamentalist type of Christianity means that you “testify” that Jesus is your saviour, learn about the “red letter” bible, and try to convert others to your religion. Doing good works, etc. is not really required. Maybe that is why Sarah Palin can taunt, mock and lie and still be a Christian. A judge was recently elected in an adjacent county solely by getting the support of two big Sarah Palin type of Christian churches. He didn’t need to spend money on campaigning or advertising. That is pretty scary!

  • spidermean2

    The question is, WHO WILL INHERIT AMERICA? It’s the true Christians and therefore what they say today is what America will become.Palin said that America is a Christian Nation. Therefore, that is what it is and will continue to become.Obama’s opinion about America will just fade away.

  • hohandy1

    “I believe the the United States was founded upon Christian principles “This is the part that I do not get at all. Exactly what Christian principles? I’ve searched throughout the Bible – can find nothing about representative government, separation of powers, freedoms of speech, religion, and assembly, right of due process, right of equal protection, trial by jury, etc., etc. Abolutely none of the governmental/instututional/legal structure and trdition that defines America has anything to do with religion in general or “Christian” in particular. To me, those who assert that the US has anything to do with Christianity are basically just superimposing their own religious beliefs over what this country really is and saying, as if it is settled fact, that somehow “Christian principles” are really the essence of this country’s existence, but without providing anything other than the unfounded assertion as if just by asserting it makes it true.So – what exactly are the “Christian principles” upon which this country was founded?

  • Try2Ketchup

    Doest thou not know that Sarah Palin is the SON OF GOD!

  • seasail

    There is no god and this is a Constitutional Republic, not withstanding what the republicans and that weasel from Wasilla “thinks”.

  • DaveR1

    “So – what exactly are the “Christian principles” upon which this country was founded?”Slavery is certainly an Old Testament principle. Maybe that’s what they are talking about…

  • curtb

    I believe in the basic principles of the teachings of Jesus Christ because they are a sound and civil way of trying to live your life. I do not believe in the Bible. It was written by men and men have proven to be untrustworthy when it comes to the afterlife. I was informed by a friend that God’s words are now written in red in the Bible. I didn’t know this, but who applied the ink? Men.

  • YEAL9

    “John Hick, a noted British philosopher of religion, estimates that 95 percent of the people of the world owe their religious affiliation to an accident of birth.” How Sarah P’s accident of birth proceeded in the early years:”Sarah P. was born in Sandpoint, Idaho, the third of four children of Charles “Chuck” Heath, a science teacher and track coach, and Sarah “Sally” Heath (née Sheeran), a school secretary. The family moved to Alaska when she was an infant.[19] She played flute in the junior high band, then attended Wasilla High School where she was the head of the Fellowship of Christian Athletes,[8] and a member of the girls’ basketball and cross country running teams.[19] During her senior year, she was co-captain and point guard of the basketball team that won the Alaska state championship, earning the nickname “Sarah Barracuda” for her competitive streak.[20][21][22]In 1984, she won the Miss Wasilla pageant.[23][24] She finished third in the Miss Alaska pageant,[25][26] playing flute in the talent portion of the contest,[27] and receiving both the Miss Congeniality award and a college scholarship.[20]She attended Hawaii Pacific University in the fall of 1982 and North Idaho College in the spring and fall of 1983.[28] (In June 2008, the Alumni Association of North Idaho College gave her its Distinguished Alumni Achievement Award).[29] She attended the University of Idaho in the fall of 1984 and spring of 1985, and attended Matanuska-Susitna College in the fall of 1985. She returned to the University of Idaho in the spring of 1986, receiving her bachelor’s degree in communications with an emphasis in journalism from there in 1987.[4][28][30][31]After graduating, she worked as a sportscaster for KTUU-TV and KTVA-TV in Anchorage,[32][33] and as a sports reporter for the Mat-Su Valley Frontiersman,[34][35] fulfilling an early ambition.[36]In 1988, she eloped with her high school sweetheart Todd Palin,[37] to spare her parents the expense of a “big white wedding.”[38][39] After the marriage, she helped in her husband’s commercial fishing business.[40]”

  • kchses1

    Gov. Palin and the others who refer to our country as a ‘christian nation’ are of course not referring to the fact that a majority of people espouse to one form of christianity or another. Those who suggest such are being disengenuous at best and almost certainly condescending and deceiptfull. That this is phrase designed for the congescenti to identify themselves vs those whom they consider enemies and not worthy of being Americans is all too obvious. Please sell your attmept at appearing to be reasonable elsewhere. Those of us with eyes can see and those of us with ears can hear all too clearly the usage of this phrase is to divide and isolate those whom are not deemed fit to be Americans.

  • arancia12

    I hear my conservative coworkers say America is a Christian nation because it was founded on Judeo-Christian principles and because the Constitution talks about God. My answer is that our government was also founded on the Greek principles of Democracy. Are we a Greek nation? Laws are founded on the principles of The Code of Hammurabi. Are we a Babylonian nation? The Senate and House are founded on the principles of the House of Lords and House of Commons from Great Britian. Are we a British nation? The Constitution never talks about the Christian God nor uses that word. The Declaration of Independence uses the word God, as in Nature’s God, but then goes on to talk about the Creator, presciently allowiong each person to identify their own creator. We are a nation of mostly Christians. We are not a “Christian Nation” and it disgusts me that fundamentalists and the ignorant want to establish a theocracy just as Iran or Saudi Arabia have.

  • spidermean2

    In school, if one is stupid, he gets a failing grade. In life, if one is stupid enough not to recognize the existence of God, he/she burns. A sad reality but how can we cure these idiots?

  • red2million

    ladyliberty I had college level reading comprehension in the fifth grade, and graduated with a 4.0, so is’e don need no skoolin wen it cum to reedin. Here’s your post that I replied to:”Many of the posters here are still sucklings at the breasts of their mother “South Park” and “Family Guy.” Their irreverence and disrespect, combined with their lack of reasoning abilities, and derision of a person who has never done anything to warrant such derision, will soon be challenged, with a different god who is not merciful, and whose followers demand bowing down before Allah, or be killed, as the writers of “South Park” have been forewarned by followers of this “god without mercy.” Theo Van Gogh, a Dutch filmmaker who exposed how women were treated in that world (since my comments are being censored, I’ll refrain from saying the word too often), was gunned down, throat slit, and a knife with a note attached was found in the abdomen. This is what the writers of “South Park” were told to expect as a result of their mockery of “you know who.” For all you irreverent, immature, mockers of Sarah Palin, you have a fine future to look forward to under “the god of no mercy.” Perhaps you don’t remember what you wrote or you can’t comprehend my reply. Whatever the case I believe my response to your post was based on a correct interpretation of what you wrote.

  • writinron

    Jesus was a liberal progressive. He replaced the old covenant of Abraham with a new more inclusive philosophy that made salvation available to anyone regardless of their race or social standing–in other words, universal coverage and a single-payer system.

  • Skowronek

    This is not a theocracy. Things do and have changed since the US was founded. Here’s an example:1892 1924 to 1954 Another is the treatment of Christmas as a holiday. It wasn’t for a long time. In fact, despite all the cutesy holiday cards, Christmas was a work day in New England until the late 19th century.”While the celebration of Christmas wasn’t yet customary in some regions in the U.S., Henry Wadsworth Longfellow detected “a transition state about Christmas here in New England” in 1856. “The old puritan feeling prevents it from being a cheerful, hearty holiday; though every year makes it more so.By 1860, fourteen states including several from New England had adopted Christmas as a legal holiday.”

  • agapn9

    How dare you Palin attackers attack Sarah when she finally got one right! We are a christian nation and apparently getting more christian everyday.

  • meinschaft

    Spidermean sez: “One wonders what these people are doing with their lives to bet on a losing proposition that there is no God.”Know what I wonder? Those that have ‘bet’ that there is a god, what have they won? Of course I’m assuming that Spidermean is suggesting that to believe in a god is the ‘winning’ proposition. Is the world a kinder, gentler, more loving and compassionate and forgiving place because they’ve ‘bet’ there is a god? Just askin…..

  • Michael_A1

    “Judgment Day is this : “But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven.””In school, if one is stupid, he gets a failing grade. In life, if one is stupid enough not to recognize the existence of God, he/she burns. Can I just say “wow” with my jaw open? Most of us that do not believe in a god, do so after careful consideration, investigation, and self-exploration. Many that do believe in a god, do so because others (like the two examples above), told them to, or taught them too. We use reason and logic above fear and superstition. In anycase, both camps have the right, in this country, to believe what they do. In no way should our government, our leaders, our nation, dictate what type of religion or lack thereof each of us follow. If this nation was a christian nation, then we would have christian laws, and all of the other religious beleivers, and non-believers, would be prosecuted under those laws. Thankfully, we are not; unfortunately, we are ostracised by the majority. President Obama was the first, and only President to acknowledge those without faith – it’s about time.

  • Try2Ketchup

    Anyone who believes that the invisible man in the sky who created the whole Universe and who needs our money is an idiot.

  • frtrue

    Correction to poster about the Treaty of Tripoli: John Adams signed the Treaty, not Thomas Jefferson. Jefferson was the Sec. of State in the Adams administration.

  • ladyliberty1

    Red2Million,When I use the word for those people who follow that pedophile of the 7th century, my posts are not posted. So, I used the words “the god who is without mercy” to refer to that “god.” You know, the one that has a [holy] book that calls for infidels to be killed? Infidels are Christians and Jews, in case you need more clues. You are smart enough to know “who” I am speaking of, are you not?Now, how do you conclude from my post that I am a follower of that “god?”

  • ThomasBaum

    SCKershaw You wrote, “With the possible exception of metaphorical references, any person who represents metaphysical concepts without first qualifying them by saying “I believe …”, or something similar, is indulging in the ultimate conceit.”This is merely your opinion and to take it to it’s logical conclusion, you are guilty of the very same “conceit” of which you speak.The “logical conclusion” of which I speak is if God were to reveal Himself to someone somehow, just how would you “know” one way or the other.You then wrote, “Such a person is saying that they know through ordinary human understanding the mind of God,””Such a person” may know that “God Is”, not by “ordinary human understanding” but by the Will of God for that person’s life, this may not mean that that person “knows” the mind of God, per se, but does know what he/she needs to know to do what God’s Will is for him/her to do.You also wrote, “As a Christian, it is natural that I should want everyone else to be one too. I would like a nation of Christians,”Some seem to think that Christianity is about religion or beliefs or dogma but isn’t it really about what God did and continues to do and has asked us to do and that it is concerning the here and now but is ultimately about the Kingdom to Come.”My Kindgom is not of this world…”Take care, be ready.Sincerely, Thomas Paul Moses Baum.

  • mammyyel

    If it were a Christian nation it’d better be the baby-sprinkling kind,’cause if Americans must be born into it, they sure can’t wait around for grace through the working of the Holy Spirit.

  • YEAL9

    As per Wikipedia:”Religion in the United States is remarkable both in its high adherence level compared to other developed countries as well as its diversity. The First Amendment to the country’s Constitution prevents the government from having any authority in religion, and guarantees the free exercise of religion. A majority of Americans report that religion plays a “very important” role in their lives, a proportion unusual among developed nations, though similar to other nations in the Americas.[1] Many faiths have flourished in the United States, including imports spanning the country’s multicultural heritage as well as those founded within the country, and have led the United States to become the most religiously diverse country in the world.[2]The majority of Americans identify themselves as Christians (76%), while non-Christian religions (including Buddhism, Hinduism, Judaism, and others) collectively make up about 4% of the adult population.[3] Another 15% of the adult population identified as having no religious affiliation.[4] According to the American Religious Identification Survey, religious belief varies considerably across the country: 59% of Americans living in Western states (the “Unchurched Belt”) report a belief in God, yet in the South (the “Bible Belt”) the figure is as high as 86%.[5][6]

  • johnglass1950

    For those of you who still think we are a Christian nation please read Thomas Paines “The age of Reason”. Most founding fathers were Deists who believed in God, but nor Christanity. He, of course did not go far enough as science has proven. There is absoluty no evidence for God at all. Wishful thinking will not run a just and tollerant nation. Christian nation just means we will justify war for ever.

  • YEAL9

    “According to a 2007 Pew Research Center survey,[9] the following is the order of religious preferences in the United States:Christianity: (78.5%)Unaffiliated, including atheist or agnostic (16.1%)Judaism (1.7%)More recent studies show that the overall percentage of Americans identifying themselves as Christians is sliding. Christianity in the United States has become more polarized with the numbers of evangelical Christians increased which, according to the studies, also contributed to the increasing numbers of Americans who are rejecting religion completely.[10] Around half of American adults leave the faith tradition of their upbringing to either switch allegiances or abandon religious affiliation altogether.[11]”Next topic!!

  • bflorhodes

    She means that it’s A-OK to murder and torture because Jesus died for you.Christianity, the blight that keeps on killing.

  • mdembski1

    The founding fathers would not meet the current defintion of “Christian”. Many at the time did not identify themselves as Christian. We are not, and have never been a “Christian” nation. We have been a nation that based many of our principals on some of the same ideas that were supported by Christianity. But many of those same ideas are also supported by many other religions. Too many politicians kowtow to the Christian right because they feel they have to.

  • sfcindy415

    The question I consider to ask anyone who is a so called “Christian” is…

  • ladyliberty1

    Skowronek,No one is disputing what a “citizen” is. The dispute, from another forum, which you choose to bring to this forum, is what are the requirements for a person to be eligible for the office of president. The founders said, “a natural born citizen” – or a “citizen” when America was established. “Natural born” was specific to the office of president. “Citizen” was the requirement for all other offices of government. You don’t want to know the truth. You only want to promulgate a lie, so that anyone born on American soil, can become president, irrespective of loyalities to foreign nations.

  • arancia12

    In school, if one is stupid, he gets a failing grade. In life, if one is stupid enough not to recognize the existence of God, he/she burns. I am a Christian who believes we should render unto Ceaser what is Ceaser’s and unto God what is God’s.You fallacy is that people who believe in a secular government are not Christians. That is untrue. My Christian God would not be pleased with your characterization of his creations as idiots. Please look for the block of wood in your own eye before searching for the speck in your brother’s.

  • Sonny53

    post_reader_in_wv | April 22, 2010 4:02 AM I think you put it beautifully. Well said!

  • Zino

    Palin has nothing to offer her public except inane palaver like this. She’s either wrapping herself in the flag or thumping a Bible. Her lack of credibility is breathtaking, so she resorts to sarcasm and demagoguery. Her appeals to “Christians” are like her appeals to “Real Americans.” She knows that dividing her audience is the best way to stir up uncritical support from gullible audiences that are predisposed to knee-jerk phobias against “the other.” In this case, she’s trying to scare so-called “Christians” into thinking they’re under attack from everyone else, secular or sectarian. This is why Bill O’Reilly blathers on every December about the attacks on Christmas… which don’t exist except in his show’s text crawl.

  • sally62

    What does the Judeo-Christian foundation mean? I would say that our foundations are more Protestant reformation than anything else. Individual responsibility is the core principle.Our laws, social, governmental, family and organizational structures are based on principles derived directly from these reformation sources and thinking …. From the role of women, … to the judgement of a person by their actions rather than birth, tribe, religion, sex, color… are examples.Other countries have their foundations in other religions or traditions. In these the role of women, ancestors, tribal organization are different – not better or worse, but different.Now we can judge how successful different cultures have been for the majority of their people in a pragmatic way….The US is a Christian nation which certainly does not mean there is no place for others – but there is no place for others to want to modify these basic premises upon which our nation has stood and prospered – without a resounding fight.

  • jonc2

    I would like to pose two questions to some/any of the “true” Christians out here today:These are hones questions that I have never heard a christian leader address.

  • ThomasBaum

    arancia12 You wrote, “As a nation of laws we do not base our actions on what someone wanted 200 years ago. We base our actions on what our legal documents, the Constitution Of the United States, codifies.”Aren’t the “legal documents” exactly what someone or in this case a group of someones wanted 200 years ago and codified them.Take care, be ready.Sincerely, Thomas Paul Moses Baum.

  • Zino

    BTW, for those who think America is God’s nation or a Christian nation… hold the phone!Do you mean to say you stop at God’s stoplights and attend God’s community college? Do you also get your oil changed at God’s garage? Get a clue!God is either in your own heart or He’s nowhere at all. Forcing everyone to join YOUR religion is no less oppressive than if you were forced into mine.Get. A. Clue!

  • josephmbennett

    This article states, “Sarah Palin promoted belief in God as a form of patriotism, dismissed notions that ‘America isn’t a Christian nation,'” So does this mean if I’m not a christian or do not believe in god I am not a patriot. I thought Sarah Palin was an idiot before this article, but this really shows her stupidity. This country was founded on philosophies that state that religion should not be intagled with government. It is intolerant to other people’s beliefs.

  • red2million

    ladyliberty when you say that those who mock and deride this god or sarah palin bascially we’ll get what’s coming to us by this “god of no mercy” I think deducing that is your God is logical. Apparently I was mistaken. The point of me “response” was merely to state that I don’t fear anything from this god. Also, I think if there is a god, he or she will consider all who don’t mock and deride sarah as being intellectually or mentally challenged. Sarah Palin has accomplished not one thing in life to warrant being in the news many times every single day. If it weren’t for the media constantly creating news about her she would be quickly forgotten by most, and obviously that isn’t in line with the MSM’s agenda. In fact there was no need for her name to be mentioned in relation to this article at all. The WAPO could have just as easily posed the question, Is America a Christian Nation without mentioning her name or showing me her face, which I wish I didn’t have to see for the rest of eternity. In any event if I misinterpreted what you wrote or drew an incorrect conclusion, my apology.

  • ThomasBaum

    johnglass1950You wrote, ” He, of course did not go far enough as science has proven. There is absoluty no evidence for God at all.”And there is absolutely no evidence that there is not a God either.Take care, be ready.Sincerely, Thomas Paul Moses Baum.

  • cyberjust

    When we say that we are a nations “founded on Christian values” I need to ask “which Christian values” or more accurately, which values that are uniquely Christian? Tolerance for other religious views, individual autonomy, the right to question dogma, are American values but not Christian ones. The value of the collective, the obligation to give up too much material wealth, the obligation to help one’s neighbor, pacifism, respect for ALL life (unborn and convicted murderers) ARE Christian values (arguably) but not necessisarily American values. Are not these also Hindu values? Are they not also Jewish? Do atheists and humanists also share these values?I found it intriguing to learn that Anne Hutchison was banished from Plymouth and Boston because she professed to have a personal relationship with God. Thus a “personal relatiohsip with God” was an anathema to then-prevailing Christian values.

  • almorganiv

    The number of people who are followers of Christianity did not go way down as was the common topic in the media of the 1970s if it now stands at 3/4s. I wonder what the future will hold. If this majority comes into and stays in political acendancy for long enough it may not look much like the present.

  • JoeT1

    the people who founded the nation were predominantly Christian. that’s about it. the founding fathers would be shunned by today’s evangelicals. the founding principles? mostly Enlightenment/Greek stuff, nothing particularly Christian. was religious freedom mostly to prevent persecution of individual sects? partially, but to suggest that is was merely an intramural affair within the context of an unstated Christian premise is absurd. the separation of church and state is explicit.getting one nation under god out of the pledge is hardly apocalyptic, and certainly isn’t a triumph of progressive secular athiests against the foundations of the republic. it was added, ruining the verse’s metre, in the 50’s by a bunch of redbaiting yokels who thought it was necessary to condemn atheistic communism. The Constitution? Palin and the tea party types (and the Christian nation apologists here) have no business pretending to defend or call for a return to a Consitution they don’t understand or respect in the first place (with their calls for an individual right to ignore Supreme Court rulings and other governmental acts they personally disagree with).The real question isn’t what Palin meant (she is clueless), it is what are politicians who raise the subject doing when they say it? Clearly they are pandering to a crowd with stuff they know or should know is utter nonsense, because they want the votes of a crowd that wants to hear that what’s wrong with the country and their lives is that it’s been taken over by people who don’t subscribe to their narrow views. that’s pretty much it.

  • Skowronek

    LL1 wrote:”anyone born on American soil, can become president”Finally, she gets it. If you are born in America, you qualify as a citizen. There are only 3 qualifications to run for POTUS:1) Be born in the US (citizen), or if born overseas then both of your parents have to be US citizens.Here’s a civics lesson:2. What does it mean in the Constitution when it says “natural born Citizen?” From Black’s Law Dictionary, Sixth Edition: “Natural born citizen. Persons who are born within the jurisdiction of a national government, i.e. in its territorial limits, or those born of citizens temporarily residing abroad.” 3. I am in the U.S. Army, a natural born citizen, and my wife is a U.S. Citizen, natural born. If my son is born in Germany (Military hospital or not), and has a U.S. Consular Report of Birth Abroad, and a German birth certificate can he become President of the United States? Yes, since your son was born of citizens temporarily residing abroad, as in the military service, then he may become eligible to be president. Of course he must still “have attained to the Age of thirty five Years, and been fourteen Years a Resident within the United States.” Two cases in point: (1) George Romney of Michigan who ran for president in 1968. Mr. Romney was born in a Mormon community in Chihuahua, Mexico. His parents were U.S. citizens so he was a natural born citizen. (2) John McCain of Arizona was a candidate in 2000. McCain was born in Panama where his father was stationed in the service, so he would also be “natural born.” 4. Is there anything that specifies that only the 3rd generation of an immigrant family could be elected as president? No. The president must only be “natural born,” that is born a citizen. His parents may be born elsewhere. Both of Andrew Jackson’s parents were born in Ireland, for example. As for the US, it’s not a theocracy. Not every citizen is a Christian, nor is it a requirement. The writers of the Constitution could have been far more specific about religion and religious beliefs, but they weren’t. If you want to amend the constitution, have at it. That’s happened before (abolition of slavery [13th amendment], voting rigts to women [19th amendment], etc.).

  • Scar1

    This is all I am saying: “Gosh Darn; Golly it is Jesus!” Did you understand that Lord????Not being disrepectful but, OMG! Does she sing Gospel too? No wonder “we study to show ourselves approved”-ya better if Palin is dishing out Scripture.

  • lydgate

    The majority of Americans are white, too. Does Palin also believe that America is therefore a “white nation?”

  • LYang39204

    Please remember why we have the separation of church and state as the nations’s guiding principle in the first place. Any politician who wants to bring us back to religious oppression and discrimination should not be elected into office, not to mention the office of the presidency!

  • spidermean2

    To the atheists who claim to be using their brains :There are thousands, if not millions, of flowers out there. Each one are pretty. Perfect in it’s use of colors. And to think that none of these flowers have eyes or mirrors to critique their own work.If it’s not supernatural, I’ll give you pot of soil and water and make me one colorful object and don’t forget, blindfolded.Isn’t it dumb that the science you believe is that a bacteria can evolve into a brain thru millions of years of evolution? A man transforming into spiderman is more believable than that crap.

  • Scar1

    Didn’t her Mother tell her not to play with the Lord?

  • leslieswearingen

    No,this is not a Christian nation, never was and never will be. There are now over two hundred Protestant churches who all have a slightly different take on how they observe their faith.

  • Marrone

    Once again, we find ourselves debating this. When you say this is a Christian nation, do you mean it is Christlike (providing help and solace to the poor, needy, disenfranchised, and downtrodden) or do you mean that most of it’s citizens purport to be Christians? There is a difference….As for the founding fathers and Christianity statement, they were of the I feel all this blather about the subject is that old litmus test to ferret out those we want to identify as different and cast out or shun. We have better things to do than go down this rabbit hole…

  • jonblackman57

    I have asbsolutely no use for Sarah Palin.

  • Dan4

    Of course the Founders fully intended that the US not be a “Christian nation”. They clearly intended to keep religion and state separate; nothing could be clearer. A more interesting question is whether they intended the US to be a God-fearing nation. Everything the Founders believed was based on John Locke (I’m deliberately overstating, but just a little), so it is interesting that, in his “Letter on Tolerance”, Locke presents many, many great arguments for why the State shouldn’t favor one religion over another, but he also states that the only kind of person who shouldn’t be allowed to have anything to do with government is an atheist, since you just can’t trust ’em.

  • poppysue85

    Give me her definition of that- because as far as I can tell- she doen’t have a “Christian work ethic”: she doesn’t have Christian charity. She likes to make fun of people, she has never had a real plan of action. I have never seen her in a picture entering or leaving a church. She seems to all about making money- which as we know the lust for money is the root of all evil…

  • presto668

    rlholloway:And you’re wrong. Treaty of Tripoli (1797), Article 11: “the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion”

  • lde2c

    Will we ever move past this flogged-to-death culture war rubbish?

  • abrahamhab1

    America is a Christian nation in the sense that its dominant culture is based on Christian ethics.

  • JoeT1

    So Sally62 comes right out and says that Catholics aren’t true patriots either because the U.S. is really based on reformed protestantism? this is lunacy.believing in God is patriotic? that’s heresy. believing in God doesn’t make you more American than Canadian, or make you more American than less. believing in God makes you more religious, period. you can’t be a good american, a patriot, unless you believe in the christian god? who makes this garbage up? George Washington wasn’t patriotic by that logic, since he was anything but religious and stopped even going to church. Jefferson was worse (darn near anti-religious), and Adams was pretty near secular. So Sarah thinks our first three presidents were not patriots?

  • homer4

    Those of us who are not Christian view these “America is Christian” statements with alarm. What do these people plan to do with us if they achieve their goals? Force us to attend church? Imprison us until their make-believe diety converts us?

  • John1263

    We are a nation primarily of Christians, not a Christian nation.

  • spidermean2

    The First Ammendment was established upon the prodding of Evangelical Christians for fear that they will be persecuted by the government as what was previously done.Wikipedia is wrong to state that the First Ammendment was due to European Rationalist and Protestant ideals. This is a crazy assertion. Protestantism is a state religion in Europe.

  • ibhernandez2003

    As a child I had imaginary friends, and then I grew up. Are we saying that America is made up of children or that our grownups are delusional.

  • bigbrother1

    “Christian” is a meaningless word anymore. It can mean someone devoted to peace, justice, service and the other ideas laid out in the sermon on the mount by Jesus of Nazareth. Or it can mean someone who worships violence, hatred, cruelty and just plain (spider)meanness. And anything in between. By their fruits, etc.But speaking of historical facts, the framers were primarily Deists. Thomas Jefferson despised Christianity. Some people will delude themselves that the opposite is true, but that just means they like to delude themselves. Such is life.

  • liberal-and-proud

    Jesus, protect us from your followers!

  • crete

    I’m always amazed a conservatives, who think that the Government couldn’t organize a 2 car parade, but then turn around and want the government organizing religious activity. If the government is incapable of teaching my kids, then why should I let it organize prayers, interpreting the bible (ie interpreting the ten commandments)?

  • samxstreampools

    WHAT JESUS OF JERUSALEM REALLY SAID:”Then spake Jesus to the multitude, and to his disciples saying, ‘The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses’ seat: All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not. For they bind heavy burdens and grievous to be borne, and lay them on men’s shoulders; but they themselves will not move them with one of their fingers. But all their works they do for to be seen of men: they make broad their phylacteries, and enlarge the borders of their garments; And love the uppermost rooms at feasts, and the chief seats in the synagogues; And greetings in the markets, and to be called of men, Rabbi! Rabbi!! But be not ye called Rabbi: for one is your Master, even Christ; and all ye are brethren.And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in Heaven.Neither be ye called masters: for one is your Master, even Christ.But he that is greatest among you shall be your servant. And whosoever shall exalt himself shall be abased; and he that shall humble himself shall be exalted.But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in.Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye devour widows’ houses, and for a pretence make long prayer: therefore ye shall receive the greater damnation.Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves’.”

  • liberal-and-proud

    Come the rapture, can I have your car?

  • aredant

    The message I get whenever I hear that phrase is that those who adhere to the christian faith deserve more rights than others and that there should be no separation of state and church. You know, like Iran, only christian.

  • washingtonpost_hinnyphanatic

    post_reader_in_wv:I’m an atheist, but I agree completely with virtually everything you said! You have my respect and appreciation. Hmm… maybe atheists and believers CAN get along…. Unfortunately, you seem to be one of a dying breed of believers who truly understand what “separation of church and state” means (and why it’s so important). So many christians seem to believe that “freedom of religion” means “freedom to use the government to promote MY religion”.

  • oyetumadre

    She’s giving cozy blankets of ignorance to the fearful and the stupid. Christianity is stupid, patriotism is a pathetic form of belonging -the last refuge of the powerless- and anyone who thinks Sarah Palin is worth two squirts deserves the miserable lives they are inevitably living.

  • prudencerussell

    Thank you people for a good Forum in Religion, Faith, and Beliefs.

  • MAZZOONI2003

    Would followers of Jesus oppose sharing resources with the millions of AMERICANS with no healthcare ? America is a a wealthy nation of hypocrites,having more in common with the Pharisees and Sadducees than the disciples.Shedding foreign blood and sacrificing their fellows to maintain the status quo,(THEIR status quo) Americans reverence mans law more then Gods!Please take note: Palin and all the other big mouths on the right,are incapable of speaking truth period! Palin is the figurehead of the dangerous mob of angry,irrational and violent,using violent language without apology, because they are driven by the spirit of Belial!

  • alance

    O beautiful for spacious skies,O beautiful for pilgrim feetO beautiful for heroes provedO beautiful for patriot dream

  • RedMercury

    Here is a repost – from Oyetumadre – WELL SAID TOO:She’s giving cozy blankets of ignorance to the fearful and the stupid. Christianity is stupid, patriotism is a pathetic form of belonging -the last refuge of the powerless- and anyone who thinks Sarah Palin is worth two squirts deserves the miserable lives they are inevitably living.POSTED BY: OYETUMADRE | APRIL 23, 2010 1:21 AM

  • icurhuman2

    As earlier commenters have pointed out, Palin’s comments are irrelevant though the question of national religiosity is not. Though nations may state their religious motivations they cannot declare their state as devoted to a religious belief as none follow these various religions as espoused by those religions’ prophets or originators. This includes Mohamed(PBUH), whose verses are not war-like or violent at all, except to those who wish to bend the words to their own end. You can see the outcome of this kind of misrepresentation more easily in the diametrically opposed views and moral stance of the Old Testament and the New Testament of the Bible. America, for instance, may declare itself Christian but not follow one moral word of Christ. What did Jesus say that relates to contemporary American society and it’s moral stance on justice. Wealth: Jesus was not happy with money-changers working the churches. HE said, “it is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the gates of heaven”. To Jesus the poor, sick and destitute were the ones who were worth salvation. Modern America has litle time for “losers”, or, socialists who would “share their wealth”. Clearly the money-changers of late have been doing a poor job of caring for America. Law: American penal institutions are full of mostly poor drug users who, having War: Jesus is unlikely to approve of any politically motivated murder, in fact, HE would surrender immediately were war ever declared against HIM. Something to do with forgiveness, a “something” which is lacking entirely in America. Vengeance is more of an American institution than forgiveness, more American than NASCAR or Disneyland. The temerity of those who state they are Christian Americans, while waving a party-colored spangled cloth over their shameless heads, is staggering. America will become a Christian nation the day it acts like a Christian, which could only happen in an alternate universe where Americans stopped thinking of themselves as Americans and started to think of themselves as human beings instead.

  • LeighOats

    Says DanielintheLionsDen (“April 21, 2010 3:18 PM”): “When Sarah Palin speaks, I don’t think she even remembers, by the end of her sentence, what she said at the beginning of the sentence.”Sentence? In what respect, Charleee?

  • ThomasBaum

    spidermean2You wrote, “The main reason why no countries are colonized today is because of a Christian Nation called America. America being the winner in WW2 frown on that practice.”At the end of WW II Ho Chi Minh declared Vietnam a free country which prior to WW II was a colony of France.Ho Chi Minh and others fought the Japanese during the war and Ho Chi Minh was so enamored by the constitution of the USA that the constitution written up for Vietnam was very similar.The USA rearmed and reequipt and financed the “recolonization” of Vietnam by France.My question, if the USA “frown on that practice”, as you put it, why did they finance it and as history has pointed out, after France was soundly beaten, the USA ignored the Geneva Convention and I need not add what happened then.When the USA “frowns on colonization” there does seem to be reasons other than simple “frowning” involved.The USA is not and never has been a “Christian Nation” and I hope to God it never becomes one because if it does it will be completely against what Jesus taught.”Christianity” is not about establishing a theocracy on earth.Take care, be ready.Sincerely, Thomas Paul Moses Baum.

  • Nymous

    I really liked some of the historical context people offered in comments. It’s pretty important stuff I think.The way the system works now, freedom from religion creates freedom for religion. I like it that way. It’s better not to go stumbling down the path of theocracy if we can help it. They set this stuff up because there were problems in the US with religious conflict during their time at the helm.It’s quite obvious they had to deal with harder lessons over this than anyone today is. It’s too bad Mrs. Palin can not see that.

  • spidermean2

    Christianity built America. It’s like a big boat Christians built but these same Christians allowed other people of different faiths including fake Christianity to ride on the same boat.After years of riding the boat, the idiotic hitchikers already think they built the boat.But the Master Designer (Christ) designed the boat in which it can break apart. One part that would sink the stupid hitchhikers while the other part to continue its journey.America is a Christian Nation. It means the part of the boat that will continue its journey but does not include the liberal, gay marrying, evolutionist part who never believed anyway that it’s a Christian nation. In a way , these idiots were right and so their portion of the boat broke apart and move towards where it belong – sunk in the muddy water.

  • tigman_2

    This public elevation of religion, especially a certain religious belief seeks to rob ALL of its real value – a personal comfort and renewal. Instead this makes religion a dividing point among people, something our founders saw as something that would in the end deprive people of their religious freedom. Its pretty plain to me that elevation of self and money is Palin’s real accomplishment thus far.

  • FranknErnest

    religion is fiction.i had a discussion with a guy online about religion…and this “christian” denied jesus was a which i responded … do you know that the story of the “last supper” was about jesus celebrating the jewish seder?… i find it ironic that the “christians” worship a jew, and many of their flock don’t even realize it…just to shock them i always say to them: “…martin luther king jr. was the “second coming” of christ…”because… even if their ever was a “second coming, or third coming (oh jesus! i’m coming jesus!)…these people couldn’t or would never recognize the person if they smacked them right in the face with a two-by-four….

  • recchird

    A man cannot serve two masters, you cannot serve god and mammon. Which one has Sarah Palin chosen? and the Republican elite? Who defines what is christian? I think I have met maybe three Christians in my lifetime, and I was born Catholic.

  • lafont1

    I believe that we are a christian nation.My evidence?Christians are loony, and this country is showing increasing signs of looniness with every dawning day…

  • cam99

    I’m confused. My understanding is that Christians are people who along with believing in God also embrace Jesus as the son of God. So some people who believe in God, Muslims, and Jews do not believe that Jesus is the son of God, therefore they are not Christians (people who believe in Christ). I have seen a lot of quotations from the Constitution that mention God, but none of them name Jesus Christ. So those words are not necessarily Christian and could be applied to any religion that worships God Christian or not.

  • areyousaying

    Jesus protect us from your followers.

  • cam99

    I don’t think that Sarah spends a lot of time considering the things that she says, or she would have noticed that not everyone who believes in God is a Christian. I would worry If her style of stating things as facts, before thinking about what she is really saying was applied to Foreign affairs and diplomatic relations with other countries.

  • tryreason

    Many Christians are angered when Sarah Palin is criticized for her lack of knowledge. But what puzzles me is why they have adopted her as a political spiritual leader. What Christian act, that wasn’t self serving or simply lip service, has she undertaken to establish her Christian credentials? Where does she get her moral authority? Why are people so willing to support someone who has done so little?

  • LeeH1

    If Sarah Palin was a Christian, she would shut up and be quiet, asking questions only of her husband. Please read 1 Corinthians 14:34, 35 (Amplified Bible) says,Sarah Palin is enjoying the ability to speak in public and to run for office because many liberal women risked their lives and health to receive equality under law with men, and the right to vote, run for office, and to speak in public. According to Christian tradition, women and ladies should not speak in public. Fortunately, women totally unlike the Conservative Sarah Palin have challenged these beliefs, making her political career possible.Of course, you can also make the argument that Sarah Palin demonstrates the reasons why these beliefs were prevalent. She should keep quiet in public.And of course, people who listen to women speak publicaly are not christian, either. They are encouraging sinful behavior. Says so in the Bible.

  • HillRat

    Frothy-mouthed ignorance is tough to correct.

  • DontGetIt

    First of all, nice oil slick in the gulf – all I can say is “Drill baby Drill”.

  • cllrdr

    What they mean is “You;d better damned well believe in Christianity or we’re going to kill you.”It’s really just that simple. And this country “founded” on such “principles” has a history of genoiciode on a massive scale. We are told that white’s “discovered” the place, because no recognition is going to be given to the “Indians” who were here first. We “settled” the West by killing off as many of them as we could manage and went on to memorialize our alughter in Hollywood movies where people defending themselves against attack and theft of their property are depicted as “savages.”Christianity in action folks!But after all what else can you expect from a religion that worships a flesh-eatinc zombie?

  • skscottkeyes

    Sarah Palin + Liberal Derangement. Liberal Motto, One Nation under someones thumb. How do I know?, the Messiah told me, and he knows all! Trust me, Rev. Wright.

  • frayedcat

    It seems there is some confusion about use of the word ‘christian’…there are a LOT of christian religions. There are even a lot of respectful references to Jesus in the Koran. Many american colonists were christians fleeing persecution by other christians. Sarah Palin’s rhetoric advocates alienation, isolation and persecution of ‘others’ – those who do not share her ideology. She resembles the “bad guys” in our US history.

  • LeighOats

    Countless years after the beginning, some simple-minded members of And they saw what they had made; and behold, God was good and bad like the curate’s egg, and with a schadenfreudean propensity to boo and to cheer every side in every argument among members of Homo sapiens.

  • steve-2304

    “Islamic religions, contrary to Christianity, are, for the most part a theocracy, intolerant of free will and freedom of religion, speech, and the understanding that all men are equal.”Does that include adult gay men?Yeah, that’s what I thought…..

  • critter69

    Steelchaser,Yes, Maryland was founded by Catholics to escape persecution in merry old England. However, even after the colony was established, they couldn’t escape the persecution.The original charter was from the King to Lord Baltimore, founding the colony. That charter secured to emigrants to Maryland equality in religious rights, and civil freedom; and it granted the privilege of passing laws, without any reservation on the part of the crown to revoke them.Events, both in the colony (supporters of one William Clayborne) and in merry old England (the Parliament), caused several freedoms to suddenly disappear by the 1650s. The main one was that any belief other than ‘official Protestantism’ (but especially including the Roman Catholic faith was totally outlawed, with all Roman Catholic churches destroyed, and all church property confiscated by the colonial authorities who were put in place when the Parliament in merry old England won the English Civil War. Anyone who wanted to practice their faith, as long as that faith conformed with what the colonial authorities considered ‘appropriate’ could do so openly. If not considered ‘appropriate’ (and Roman Catholicism was not so considered) had to practice in secret. Only when Lord Baltimore was restored in 1660 did the rights of all ‘Christians’ begin to be restored.So even in Maryland, one of the most tolerant of religion colonies when founded, has a dark ‘secret’ that most don’t know.

  • hurleyvision

    The Christian “right” says that we need to get back to our nation’s roots. They say that we should live and act like John Calvin. He caught his 16 year old stepdaughter and her boyfriend making whoopee. They were stoned to death, right on U. S. soil. So, it would only be fitting and proper for Pat Robertson to cast the first stone. They could form a ring around Sarah Palin’s daughter.

  • LWittgenstein2

    If this is a Christianity that is not against anything or against anyone, then fine. But, we know that SP Christianity is deeply defined by what it and whom it is against: Thoughtful dialog, gay persons who fall in love and want to marry, Hindu and Buddhist vegetarians who appear “weak” to her, intellectuals with great educations, peace-making diplomacy, Russian people, Iranian people, New Yorkers, and on and on.

  • Vipda

    My dear Sarah Palin has the right to express her opinion accorded to her by US constitution, which also unequivocally upholds the secular principle.Sarah Palin, the TEA! Party Apes, Republicans, Glenn Beck, Ahannity etc are facing an uphill battle to muster majority vote. Their problem is compounded by the fact that now-a-days 35% of the voters in most constituencies are blacks and hispanic, most of whom are inclined to vote a Democrat.As part of a solution to above Sara Palin, TEA! Party Apes, Glenn Beck, Ahannity and Republicans are gunning for the next best thing, i.e. religion – Sure these people know their class!I believe the Republicans, Glenn Beck, TEA! Party Apes, Ahannity and my dear Ms. Sarah Palin will be better served by focusing on an effort for a comprehensive immigration reform that will eliminate unchecked mass influx of illegal aliens into United States and eliminate existing illegal alien problem, thus keeping the voter ethnic ratios under control. The immigration reform will also help to eliminate some major homeland security threats – It is common knowledge that illegal aliens and criminal gangs from across the border are creating law and order problems in bordering states.Time for The TEA! Party Apes, Ahannity, Glenn Beck, my dear Ms. Sarah Palin and Republicans to wake up and do right by constitution.

  • schnauzer21

    Posted by: WmarkW “Now, if liberals would stop using their own uninformative labels like “sexist,” “racist,” “homophobic” or “extremist” to describe people who oppose their political positions, we might get somewhere.”I know many people who belong to christian denomonations and are good people, with only good intentions. Unfortunately they are being given a bad name by these very vocal nutcases who continue to act very UN-christian while making sure every statement they make in anger or discrimination as being “because” they are christian