Political Christians

How many kinds of Christians are there? Here’s a partial list: Amish, Assembly of God, Baptist, Catholic, Christian Science, Evangelical, … Continued

How many kinds of Christians are there? Here’s a partial list: Amish, Assembly of God, Baptist, Catholic, Christian Science, Evangelical, Jehovah’s Witnesses, Jews for Jesus, Lutheran, Methodist, Moonie, Mormon, Pentecostal, Quaker, Seventh-day Adventist. Most are breakaways from other denominations; most also consider some of the others to be cults; and most, themselves, were originally considered cults until they increased sufficiently in numbers.

Asked who could complete the above list, I would answer, “Lord knows,” which is another way of saying “I don’t know.” Were I a believer, I might think this task to be even too complicated for the Lord to figure out

As president of the Secular Coalition for America, I’ve worked with non-believers who identify as agnostics, atheists, freethinkers, infidels, humanists, rationalists, and secularists. But here’s a difference between Christians and secularists: Christians have the same unifying word, but fight over theology; secularists have the same unifying theology, but fight over words. (At least our secular wars are only verbal.)

Many classify Christians by category, rather than denomination. Here are my four:

Conservative Christians: Those who place belief above behavior, and think of this life as preparation for an afterlife.

Liberal Christians: Those who place behavior above belief, and interpret scripture in such a way that obliges them to advocate for social justice.

Cultural Christians: Those who want to maintain their Christian heritage even though they may not hold any Christian beliefs.

Political Christians: Those who think that an unwritten requirement for public office is to profess deeply held Christian beliefs.

In 2005 at the Oxford Union, Oxford University, I debated whether American religion undermines American values. I argued that it did, and our side won. Richard Lowry, editor of National Review, took the opposite side. In trying to show how tolerant and diverse Christianity was in America, Lowry mentioned that a committed Christian like Howard Dean left one Christian sect to join another because of a dispute over a bicycle path. When I speculated that Howard Dean was probably not a committed Christian at all, but had to pretend he was in order to get elected, Lowry agreed with me. Dean failed in his 2004 bid to gain the presidential nomination. He lost, of course, to another Christian.

In 2008, we showed how diverse the United States could be when we elected a black Christian instead of the usual white Christian. Anyone have another idea for diversity? In my home state of South Carolina, Nikki Haley is now the leading candidate for governor. She was raised as a Sikh, and has since become a Sikh Christian. Obama was once an agnostic, but became a Christian in time to run for public office. I suspect that both Haley and Obama are political Christians. Obama even chose a political minister, whom he abandoned when it began to hurt him politically. I don’t know what Dean, Haley, or Obama really believe, but I think it says something about our politicians and the electorate that many politicians feel they must pretend to be religious.

In a recent Under God blog, “Nikki Haley’s confession of faith,” On Faith editor David Waters wrote about the evolution of the South Carolina Constitution. The 1778 version stated, “That the Christian religion is the true religion” and “The Christian Protestant religion shall be deemed, and is hereby constituted and declared to be, the established religion of this State.” That was updated in 1868 to its present form, “No person shall be eligible to the office of Governor who denies the existence of the Supreme Being.”

Of course, this more “tolerant” version is still unconstitutional, since Article VI of the U.S. Constitution prohibits religious tests for public office. I challenged the clause in 1990, running for governor as “the candidate without a prayer.” I lost the election, but eventually won a unanimous South Carolina Supreme Court decision in 1997. So the offending clause is constitutionally invalid, though politically as relevant today as it was in 1868. The only way to remove this clause from the South Carolina Constitution is through a referendum, which I don’t expect to see in my lifetime.

I wonder if I would be more successful in South Carolina politics if I were to run as an atheist Christian, or maybe as a Christian atheist? I guess I’ll let a Focus Group decide.

Herb Silverman
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  • veginpost

    I believe that a lot of people who run for office not only feel they have to embrace Christianity but also conservatism. I believe many take the label of conservative because they are afraid that they will loose to the opposing candidate that says he/she is more conservative. Their mantle bestowed by god, lends itself to their Conservative credentials. They never really talk about issues rather they talk about how strong their family values are or how patriotic they are or how much they love Christ. It’s mostly a lot of noise but then what is one to do, throw in the towel to the noisy competition that uses faith to influence their constituency?

  • farnaz_mansouri2

    Christian atheist, Catholic atheist are terms I use frequently, and they are apt.I think it is true that Christian fundamentalism is a “reaction to the end of the world as I know it.” US religionism is fear of chaos. It unites groups in battle, providing the illusion of order, but it is divisive.The government must purge itself of religionism.

  • megthepearl

    Though the world belongs to the devil, Jehovah’s Witnesses know Satan doesn’t like it one bit when Governments recognize our rights, and when their courts help us win them.We also appreciate that present governments make the pleasures of life, even the existence of life possible. Still a person can only give ‘one’ allegiance in his life. That goes to the ONE who will unite all people under a Governor … who has already died for us. What a credential.

  • abutterflyloves

    You said, Conservative Christians: Those who place belief above behavior, and think of this life as preparation for an afterlife.I love how you take an entire group, and assume that all Conservative Christians place belief over actions? So not true. The problem is, most liberal godless that say right on to your article, see a kind act by a Christian, and assume we only do it for personal gain like the democrats. I work, I tend to my family, I attend church, and hang out in my backyard in the Chicago suburbs with my garden. I normally don’t bother responding to opinion on Christians. However you called my name Conservative Christian, and brought my daily actions into question. You want equality in this world liberal? Accept others who have beliefs other than your own. And I will spend my weekend after working all week in the garden, not bothering with you. Thanks!

  • DAN46

    I think most South Carolinians would see “Christian atheist” as oxymoronic, as would most atheists/humanists.

  • WmarkW

    Congratulations on your SCSC victory, but we all know THE dominant strain in South Carolina politics is to keep people with opinions like yours (and not just religious ones) from holding office.The South is full of people for which “Christian” is simply a synonym for “everything I agree with.” What’s so Christian about a large military or a longing for racial segregation? You’ll find plenty of people in South Carolina who can explain it.It’s been documented by students of Fundamentalism that it’s frequently a reaction to the end of the world as they knew it. Currently a strain is growing in the Rust Belt, as people without college degrees who expected to earn a middle-class living by working in a factory all their lives have had their expectations shattered. The Religious Right of the 80s grew out of desegregation. I was too young at the time to understand why believing abortion was fundamentally wrong led one to the suggestion that states should be allowed to make their own laws. (If it’s murder, shouldn’t it be regulated federally?) But they were using the concepts of segregationism to defend a position on a different issue.The upside of infinitely malleable Christianity is that Christian societies are generally religiously tolerant. The difference between a Christian and Islamic fundamentalist is that the Christian leaves your punishment to God. Hopefully, we can someday convince Muslims that a superior intelligence did not write the Quran.

  • bomhard

    It would be an honor to have Herb Silverman run for governor of South Carolina again. He would certainly stand out as an honest, compassionate, and thoughtful candidate, in sharp contrast to the recent slate of candidates from which we had to choose.

  • LorettaHaskell

    South Carolina couldn’t have a better governor than Dr. Silverman and if creating an Atheist Christian sect of Christianity were all that it would take to get him elected, I would create it myself.I believe that for many who identify themselves as Christians, it is hard for them to accept the fact that morality and good character are not a result of or related to membership in the Christian community. As a result, they cannot in good conscience, vote for a non-Christian. Until we can move our society toward a more sophisticated understanding of religion and culture, I fear that we will never have a non-Christian elected as President of the United States.Progress is slow but it will be a mark of significant progress when we can look at another individual without judging their religious orientation before accepting their good character and contribution to society.

  • jonesm2

    Herb, Why don’t you run for governor again, but this time as a “serious” candidate? No need to change anything, but other people’s opinions.

  • beersnob11123

    I disagree wholeheartedly w/ mark when he says christian societies are tolerant–at least in a historical context. It was just a couple decades ago that George H.W. Bush said “I don’t know that atheists should be considered citizens, nor should they be considered patriots. This is one nation under God.” And, Herb’s whole essay is built on the FACT that atheists are subject to stereotype and suspicion to the extent that they can not be trusted with public office. My grand parents had to get a special exemption from their churches to marry, because just ~80 years ago different christian sects regarded each other with similar suspicion and disdain. The “christian” hardliners would probably like to see atheists like me and Herb strung-up in the public square. They spread rumors about Obama secretly being a muslim AS IF that disqualified him from office. Religious tolerance in the US is a matter of avoiding legal action; it is NOT true social acceptance.And, Dan46, while I think you’re right, I occasionally refer to myself as a christian atheist, because my values are far more christian than most christians’ values despite my belief that the story of Christ is a composite of various older myths. Maybe Rationalist Christian or Christian Humanist would make a better sell though. I do kinda like “god-free altruist.”

  • WmarkW

    Toleration:There’s obviously different degrees of tolerance; but except for the Holy See, is there any place on earth where one can build a church but not a mosque?

  • EAguard54

    I feel my faith was hijacked during the last administration. There was so much corruption. I find it really unsettling that we have the same people out there calling themselves Christian and we all know they are not. We got behind Bush after 911. We even mistakenly supported him during two wars. Yet, we heard unpatriotic if we disagreed or questioned. Now we hear constant Obama bashing. A national crisis and not one so called Christian is standing behind our President. Bush created TARP, Part D, No child left behind, tax cuts. All mandated and not paid for. Many GOP leaders are pro-choice. Yet the so called Christians hate Obama. I think John Danforth, Republican had it right. He should run for President. P.L.

  • cpameetingbook

    Obama is reaping what he sowed — extravagant expectations based on the seminal idea of liberal politics that government is the answer to society’s troubles.

  • yourpoliticalanimal

    The only Christian who matters is a biblical Christian, a true disciple of our Lord Jesus Christ. The Bible emphatically declares that God will judge the hearts of all men in the Day of Jesus Christ. So all who have professed him but not invited Him into their hearts will be cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, even as they declare “Lord, Lord, did we not do great works in your name?” And He who knows the hearts of all men will respond, “Depart from me you wicked hypocrites . . . I know you not!”

  • tkavanag

    spidermean wrote:And what is “soil”?It is organic material, e.g., the remains of living things, digested by other living things. Just ask any gardener.Get your arguments straight.tk

  • joe_allen_doty

    There AIN’T no such thing as a “BIBLICAL CHRISTIAN!The word “Christian” is only used 3 times in the Bible and NONE of those who accepted Jesus’ free gift of salvation even called themselves “Christian.”It was pagans who coined the word as a hateful epithet like the folks in California in the 1930s coined the hateful epithet “Okie” to make fun of those from the Dust Bowl of the Great Plains who went to California to look for farm jobs. I am a native Oklahoman; but, I am NOT an Okie.

  • joe_allen_doty

    Doesn’t the author of this blog know that “Pentecostal” is NOT a denomination but a spiritual experience? The Assemblies of God is a Trinitarian doctrine Pentecostal denomination. A denomination or individual congregation does NOT have to have “Pentecostal” in the Title of the group to be a Pentecostal one. One doesn’t even have to be a member of any church and stil be Biblically Pentecostal.

  • joe_allen_doty

    Every follower of Jesus AFTER the Day of Pentecost called himself or herself “Believer.” Literally, the special name means “Faith” as a person with faith in Jesus the Christ. Peter did write in an Epistle (letter) that if you were living right for Jesus and SOMEONE ELSE CALLED YOU “Christian” count it an honor to be called by that name.But, he did not write “Call yourself Christian.”

  • shaheed-yahudi

    .

  • spidermean2

    As I always say, atheists are idiots.SOIL is composed of particles of broken rock that have been altered by chemical and environmental processes that include weathering and erosion. (Wikipedia)

  • wncooney27

    A slight detour:Mr. Obama is among the most calculating politicians ever. I have no doubt he is a closet atheist who caters to the religious right because the way things are right now—sadly—politicians have to!

  • PSolus

    “I feel my faith was hijacked during the last administration.”Is this a euphemism for “I was outwitted by an imbecile”?

  • skinfreak

    My mother was a Catholic, so all eight children were baptized as Catholics. As we aged, we went in different directions, but half of us are still Christians. I decided to stop attending the Catholic church was because the masses were in Latin; didn’t mean anything to me. But I never lost the desire to worship God. Years later, a friend asked me to go to church with her. I was pleasantly surprised to hear the mass in English and the priest was black. I was a frequent patient at a hospital and enjoyed many conversations with the priest on call. Several snide comments about other denominations told me not to label myself, so I am a Christian; nothing more, nothing less. The priest chuckled when I told him of my decision. I knew my decision was right.

  • Beckola

    This certainly brought out the disputants!

  • barferio

    when you get right down to it, you gotta be a dumbàss to believe in any of this religious crap.what you have to do to your thinking mind to keep believing this crap is just beyond belief.

  • jameschirico

    Nikki falls into the political category. She attends both Christian and Hindu Sikh services, you can’t reconcile turn the other cheek and revenge of family harm.

  • Thependulumswings

    I think your definitions are certainly descriptive of the society we live in today. My view of the world is many people have had inspiration from the Creator….but the Creator obviously gave them different messages.

  • hill_marty

    Only in the Washington Post would one see a column “about faith” containing a diatribe written by a secularist criticizing faith. With warped values like these, America needs no external enemies – we will corrode and fall from within.

  • jonswitzer

    Herb lost his credibility to write this article precisely when he defined the types of Christians in a cynical manner. Had he attempted a sincere delineation of the various Christian divisions, my ears would have been more willing to hear. Shame on you Herb to claim moral high ground in a fit of cynical stereotyping. Shame on WaPo for encouraging cynical resentment like Herb’s on this site.

  • jaxas70

    I cannot prove it but I suspect that the vast majority of Christians in reality, in the privacy of their own intimate thoughts, do not believe. They say they do but they cannot no matter how hard they try hold on to views of the universe that a growing scientific knowledge refutes every day. We once believed that the earth was the center of the universe and everything else revolved about it. Very few people believe that now. We once believed that the earth was pretty much the age that Bishop Usher calculated at around 6004 years old. Even Jerry Falwell disputed that, using his own fundamentalist calculus he authoritatively informed us that the earth was “no more than 10,000 years old.Look. We now have the technical capability to actually observe interstellar gases in varying stages of development into moons or planets. We know the constituents of stars, planets and moons and can see the wonderment of their formation. No anthropomorphous hand is visible or required in the marvelous workings of this process.Yet, even given this transparently physical process that we can observe using our own computers, millions of us will continue to insist with a straight face that all of this was created by a SuperBeing we call God or the Creator. We secretly doubt it but politically–and at our centers we are all political creatures–it is a doubt we cannot express on pain of being socially and politically ostracized.What is the last, remaining, sanctioned prejudice? It isn’t against blacks, or Hispanics, or gays or women or Muslims or Wickers–it is Atheists. In America, it is now becoming clear that if you want to be President, the only remaining prejudice that will bar you is Atheism.

  • Thependulumswings

    I think trying to understand faith in its many forms is not criticizing faith. Faith is a complex phenomenon that many people have trouble comprehending. What is your opinion regarding Silverman’s definitions? I know persons that I would place in each category, although the categories of Conservative and Liberal Christians present more uncertainty than Cultural and Political.

  • Fate1

    spidermean2 wrote: “There are THREE valid reasons why evolution is false.”Spidey, who validated these reasons? How are they validated? Do you know what “validate” means?spidermean2 wrote: “Reason no. 1 — it is impossible that a single-celled bacteria can become or transform into a two-celled bacteria or into a multiple-celled organism…”Bacteria and multicellular organisms both share the same genetic code. By saying bacteria could not become multicellular organisms over time, yet have the same genetic code, is like saying that Australians and Britons are not related in spite of their common language. spidermean2 wrote: “Reason no. 2 – soil and water existed before any living thing existed. It is impossible that those brainless substances (soil and water) can form by themselves a very complex matter called plants and animals…”Hurricanes are complex systems, feeding off hot water vapor. They grow from nothing and become larger than any living organism that ever existed. Tornadoes are similar and are known to spawn (e.g., give birth to) other tornadoes. And these come from nothing. But according to you complex things cannot come from nothing. I guess you do not believe in hurricanes and tornadoes.spidermean2 wrote: “Reason no. 3 — Science is the study of nature. Engineering is part of that kind of science. Engineers took many years to extract energy from sunlight and even at this moment they are still scratching their heads how plant leaves has been doing it for eons already. The level of intelligence nature demonstrates is just beyond human intelligence. The only probable explanation is the existence of a Supremely Intelligent Creator.”Only possible explanation? I can think of many others, like other life from other planets (aliens) and magic, which I assume you believe in since much of the bible is about magic. The problem you have spidey is you think humans are really really smart, like smarter than anything ever could be, yet humans still believe in what we know does not exist, like ghosts and Santa. We are capable of belief because that is what humans are. We used it to survive as a social animal, and some of us seem to rely on it so much that even stark reality is not to be trusted. spidermean2 wrote: “With these THREE valid reasons, I don’t think I mentioned faith or religion. EVOLUTION IS A MYTH BASED ON REASON.”You have so much to learn. Too bad all that cumulative knowledge of mankind is lost on you. Mankind has worked for millennia to bring to you the knowledge of the ages. Science has worked to validate new findings using the scientific method, something religions do not allow to be used on their beliefs. If you had actually read the bible you would know there is no way it can be correct, containing Christ’s own words that the end of the earth would happen around 100AD. But it seems, as with children, some prefer belief over reason, because its just easier.

  • spidermean2

    The Supreme Court is wrong in its decision. Anybody who thinks that soil can become brains just by themselves are fools. There is no available science to show its validity.Being fools, who want to elect an atheist?I bet, no atheist can pass an engineering course. It’s a pure science subject while atheists thrives on fiction.Im sick of people thinking they are smart when it’s clear that they are SOOOOO DUMB.SOOOOO DUMBSOOOOO DUMBThere are THREE valid reasons why evolution is false. I hope all evolutionists read this so I don’t keep on repeating myself.Reason no. 1 — it is impossible that a single-celled bacteria can become or transform into a two-celled bacteria or into a multiple-celled organism. There is no available science to explain such a fairy tale. This is the myth of evolution.Reason no. 2 – soil and water existed before any living thing existed. It is impossible that those brainless substances (soil and water) can form by themselves a very complex matter called plants and animals. There is no available science to explain that such a transformation is possible. This is the myth of evolution.Reason no. 3 — Science is the study of nature. Engineering is part of that kind of science. Engineers took many years to extract energy from sunlight and even at this moment they are still scratching their heads how plant leaves has been doing it for eons already. The level of intelligence nature demonstrates is just beyond human intelligence. The only probable explanation is the existence of a Supremely Intelligent Creator. With these THREE valid reasons, I don’t think I mentioned faith or religion. EVOLUTION IS A MYTH BASED ON REASON.

  • Petras123

    I’m always curious about the source of anti-Christian hostility..As a former liberal, I recall my own hostility to Christians and Churchs… until as an adult I started accompanying my grandmother to her Anglican church and visiting the churches of friends. In every church, I found loving people full of grace and love and participating in charity to many, and outreach to society’s outcasts, the sick, the shut-ins, and the dying. This picture clashed severely with my long-held liberal beliefs… where were the fundamentalists ? the racists ? I finally realized they were somewhere else… always far away… maybe in Florida ? only I went there and found loving Christians there too.Again today I read much hostility to Christians and faith in general.I’d encourage everyone to visit a local church and review their community programs. Many would be surprised at Christian compassion in a liberal or conservative church : )But what about those Christian warriors ? extremists ? Crusaders ? Gay-bashers ?All Christians that I know follow the teachings of non-violence and self-defense advocated in the Bible in its entirety. The Old Testament has “do not murder” and the New Testament has “he without sin cast the first stone” ending stoning as a punishment most everywhere where Christian predominate. Didn’t Christ say “forgive those who sin against us”? Didn’t He say “Love thy neighbor” ?As an amateur historian… I’ve noticed that after a period of approx. 50,000 years of paganism, tribalism, empires, war, tyranny and suffering among modern humans… it is notable that democracy, human rights, womens rights and gay rights… emerged first in Christian countries. It was first in Christian democracies (Canada, Britain, America) that slavery was outlawed. The civil rights movement was lead by Christians ! The strongest manifestations of liberalism, enlightenment, justice systems, universal education and medical systems all emerged first in Christian democracies before being adopted elsewhere.Curiously… In the last century alone, Christian democracies at great cost in lives and treasure have liberated dozens of countries (Europe and Asia mostly) even helping to rebuild its enemies economies… remember “Love thy neighbor” ? Perhaps oh 2 billion people have been freed from man-made religions called fascism and communism.Christian leaders made the difficult decisions that sacrificed hundreds of thousands of their own citizens for the sake of saving millions of others including allies and enemies and innocents alike.Curiously, the safest, best-educated, happiest, wealthiest and most free countries in the world seem to have Christian majorities. Surely, just a coincidence ? Maybe we should encourage the spread of Christianity ? Just a radical thought.

  • spidermean2

    I think the main reason why BP can’t plug the oil leak is because their so-called “scientists” are all evolutionists and therefore dumb. Why don’t these idiots try for once, my recommendation how to plug the leak.Insert a net inside the pipe and pour tons of gravel and sand. It would serve as a big cork. They can add other materials like plastic bags or clay soil and repeat the process 20 times.20 big corks inside the pipe. Im sure even superman can’t escape in it.

  • paultaylor1

    Ain’t it always(ancient colloquial Chinese saying, banned by the Communist Party in the 文化大革命)

  • thebump

    A professed Christian (sincere or not) is no guarantee of good governance, of course. On the other hand, since atheists deny reality, I can’t imagine an atheist (sincere or not) would ever be a good choice.

  • tojby_2000

    spidermean2 wrote: I think the main reason why BP can’t plug the oil leak is because their so-called “scientists” are all evolutionists and therefore dumb.__________________________________________Thanks for the grin, spidey. This thesis could make a nice cornerstone for your political party.

  • MissV

    While these ‘descriptions’ of Christians have given you something to write about, they are absolutely worthless. Any supposed believer in Christ who can’t value another believer’s ‘differences’ is best defined as a baby.

  • jackburris1

    Theologians would have you believe that their particular Trade Name is the only one worth buying. Each has a version to sell of the “hereafter”, and each has a prescription of how to get there. “Follow my rules, and remember, the other Trade Names are phony.” They appeal to the “will to believe” inherent in all humans. And how do they make their appeals? They use logic and persuasion, based on alleged human experience found in their ancient “book”; they threaten an unpleasant present or future to those who fail to “believe” and promise good things to those who will “park their brains” and “believe”. Further, each declares that inasmuch as the “truth” is based and accepted on faith, it cannot be refuted. He who would use logic, persuasion and human experience to appeal for acceptance and belief must accept the cannons of logic and the findings of human experience, or admit that his Trade Name is no better than any other product being “hawked” in the market place, and should be required to carry a warning label, “Buyer Beware!”

  • barferio

    It’s generally our freeing ourselves from despotic christian majorities where these new freedoms come from.Who did these christians of yours have to resist in promoting such freedoms?Who were the enslavers these christians stopped? Who were the people resisting civil rights, women’s rights?For every christian abolitionist fighting for the union there was was a christian fighting for the confederacy. What do you have to say about that? Over half a million christan men in our country had to die in this “christian war” to end slavery.Jim Crow laws, segregation … all were maintained by christians in the south. Women didn’t get to vote until after the passage of the 19th amendment in 1920. It was the christians running our democracy who kept them from having the right to vote.To say that christians were responsible for our enlightenment in these areas when it was christians who they had to resist … you’re sure not paying much attention are you?

  • spidermean2

    Fate1 wrote “Bacteria and multicellular organisms both share the same genetic code. By saying bacteria could not become multicellular organisms over time, yet have the same genetic code, is like saying that Australians and Britons are not related in spite of their common language.”Evolutionists are truly idiots. This is not science but wrong use of analogy. The reason why organisms share the same genetic code is because they share the same scientific principles. Toyota and Ford are not related but if not for the tags you would not recognize which is which because these companies share the same scientific principles. When would evolutionists ever learn that they are TRULY IDIOTS?Also, I hope these idiots can explain what is the science in TIME that bacteria can become a multicelled organism. SOLVE IT THE ENGINEERING WAY and not thru use of words alone like fairy tales.Are you the kind of “scientist” BP is hiring? NO wonder that for months now they can’t solve a very simple oil leak.

  • spidermean2

    barferio,You have to realize that like Darwinian evoluttion in science, there is also falsehood in Christianity.What do you get if you believe that all science is false? You’d become a moron. The same can be said in the field of religion. People become morons if they think that all types of Christianity are false.

  • shaheed-yahudi

    (part 2 of 2): …. Islami-Ummah Know That Under the tutelage of their Up & Coming Islami-Neo-Fascist-Ottomani’s Leader & their Captains (imams; copy-cat Rabbi’s) of Wahhabi/Ayatollah Funded/Paid Mosque-Ships (All Over America & Elsewhere as fronts & to Stock); Craving for the Past, like their (se HISTORY; our Jury) trouble-making Pre-WW1 Days; That OIL-DEPRIVATION-THREAT or Make Such more of a Reality today (by Uniting, not Dividing the SATANIC-VERSUS Lover Nationals; via “TELL BIG LIE’s” Story’s or Ventriloquist’d such & then feeding their own people this MANNA From Hell; not Heaven). Smells Like The IRAN, SYRIA, TURKEY “Tri-Lateral’ Conspiracy is veering it’s inevitable head {If NOt-Stopped Now; hence like failing to stop Nazi-Catholic-Germany, prior 1938; then we need to stop This requires both Hind-Sight & Foresight Introvisions, because WE [i] have-to/must contain, but smartly, the Islami-Scare/Creep/Spread AL-TAQIYAists Global-end-Game; because the QURON/KORAN (NOt the HADITH) did not get (or be getting) a Haircut so to speak; New-Life a new Religion via neo-Islami-Fascist Ottoman Revisionism.! Note Conservative ISLAMians? Liberal ISLAMians?Cultural ISLAMians? Political ISLAMians?Recommendation: AMERICA/U.S. Needs To “Limit” The Expontial Islamic-Spread/Threat/Creep in America. Soo, “Think Globally & Act Locally.” The DUTCH et al hath been waking-Up.THANK G-D (“IT” by many names; if any) for NOt allowing TURKEY (Secular-faining secret Islamic Sultanic nation for WAHHABI & AYATOLLAHism) to Join the EURO Currency! Now SATANIC VERSUS is leaching out with a vengeance.

  • lcarter0311

    “No person shall be eligible to the office of Governor who denies the existence of the Supreme Being.”~~~And, who might that be? God, Jesus, or Allah?

  • papafritz571

    A slight detour:Mr. Obama is among the most calculating politicians ever. I have no doubt he is a closet atheist who caters to the religious right because the way things are right now—sadly—politicians have to!Posted by: wncooney27 | June 12, 2010 7:34 PM If you want to be taken seriously, can your childish comments about Obama. Not one politician in the Congress can call themselves “Christian’. It is merely a label to get foolish people to vote for them. Every day in every way they present to us their corrupting influence over our government. If they were truly serving their country for the good of everyone, they wouldn’t need to lie and cheat to get into office and while they are serving in office. These unGodly Congressmen stand before the citizenry and boldly lie to our faces and then run and hide behind their public relations people.

  • spidermean2

    Racerdoc,You forgot that the process called “topkill” means inserting mud inside the leaking pipe. They were able to put in mud in there, so why not gravel, idiot? Pieces of gravel falling cannot reverse its course if a kilometer of gravel is on its way down. Imagine yourself going against the flow of the crowd in a tunnel.You are an idiot to think that the crowd will change its direction. You have to tell the last person a kilometer away to do so. The same can be said of those gravel and sand. If idots like you (evolutionists) are in charge of the oil leak, it’s not surprising it’s taking you months to solve it.

  • jckdoors

    There is no god.

  • apspa1

    Indeed people do scream, “Oh God”, “Please God NO!” or “God Help me!” when they are faced with impending death.They also are known to scream, “Oh s..t” and “Oh ..ck” and grown men even call for help from “Mom.”Yep most people will react irrationally under extreme stress.This does not prove they are believers or anything else. They are simply scared out of their wits and.

  • whocares666

    Hummm… no mention of fundamentalist.

  • bpai_99

    There’s another Christian type: those who pretend to embrace Christian values in order to whitewash their past and pave their way to political power in America.Example 1: “Hot Tub” Tom DeLay.

  • kimmsr

    Jesus was not a conservative White, Anglo Saxon Protestant, he was a radical jew that, according to what I read had a real problem with the pharisees and the rigid rules they imposed on others. I see far too many people that call themselves “christian” imposing far too many rules on others so those others can belong the the select group. I see the same thing happening with people that perport to be followers of Mohamad.

  • barferio

    My atheist grandfather, who fought the japanese in WWII, told me yes in fact there were atheists in foxholes, and he wasn’t the only one.He told me a story about leading a patrol on one of those islands. They were heading along a trail when they heard a japanese patrol coming up behind them. They ran down into a small, narrow ravine to hide from them … they could hear the japanese walking on either side of the ravine … when suddenly one of my grandfather’s soldiers started to pray, out loud!He had to hit him in the face with his rifle butt to get to him to stop. That stupid coward soldier would have gotten them all killed.

  • onthejourney

    Mr. Silverman, should you run again for office, run as an American and when asked about religous affliation note that it is not applicable to the office you are seeking. Your morales and ideas for governing should help infrom the voters. Good luck

  • bobmoses

    Yawn. Another hyper-partisan liberal atheist takes aim at those who don’t share his narrow minded views on OnFaith.In related news, the sun rose today.

  • bobmoses

    “We Westerners (as well as most Moslems) think of one’s religion as unique to the exclusion of others.”Such ignorance. The West is by far the most diverse and tolerant society towards all religions. Do any liberals ever have a clue about what they are talking about?

  • spidermean2

    Another word for an atheist is brainless. Why would a person in his right mind vote for a brainless guy?There are THREE valid reasons why evolution is false. I hope all evolutionists read this so I don’t keep on repeating myself.Reason no. 1 — it is impossible that a single-celled bacteria can become or transform into a two-celled bacteria or into a multiple-celled organism. There is no available science to explain such a fairy tale. This is the myth of evolution.Reason no. 2 – soil and water existed before any living thing existed. It is impossible that those brainless substances (soil and water) can form by themselves a very complex matter called plants and animals. There is no available science to explain that such a transformation is possible. This is the myth of evolution.Reason no. 3 — Science is the study of nature. Engineering is part of that kind of science. Engineers took many years to extract energy from sunlight and even at this moment they are still scratching their heads how plant leaves has been doing it for eons already. The level of intelligence nature demonstrates is just beyond human intelligence. The only probable explanation is the existence of a Supremely Intelligent Creator. With these THREE valid reasons, I don’t think I mentioned faith or religion. EVOLUTION IS A MYTH BASED ON REASON.

  • barferio

    I don’t have to guess who’s the idiot spidermean, none of us do, you leave no room for doubt.And my dear old atheist grandfather is alive and kicking butt down at the old folks home, age 96.still an atheist, spidey. You are so much the finest example of a drivel-ridden moron, can you possibly understand how much the people who come to this forum are laughing at you?I doubt it. you have no imagination, you have only your delusions. i hope they keep you hard.Oh, and you’re going to die alone spidey. Not even a homosexual badger would like you.

  • spidermean2

    96 and still alive. What shall it profit a man if he gains the whole world or live a thousand years but loses his own soul?He would still die and still face the unescapable Judgment Day.Im not the Judge so let’s just hope God will show mercy on him.

  • slamming

    To me, a TRUE Christian is someone who quietly goes through life not judging others, doing good whenever and wherever they can, and not boasting about their faith. Their daily ACTS of kindness and nonjudgmentalism speak volumes about them, and I’m sure that when Judgment Day comes they will be highly favored by God, MUCH MORE SO than those who constantly belittle others (ie, the president) and wear their ‘religion’ like a badge of honor that only those in their particular ‘brand’ of religion are entitled to wear!

  • Garak

    A “Christian atheist’? That’s probably how Opus Dei views the Jesuits.A “Christian Idiot”? Easy–spiderman2.

  • tjmlrc

    A slight detour:When you seek to damage our President with your version of your truth and that truth is tainted by your own poison, you allow us to judge you as unChristian. For Christ tells us that bearing false witness against another person is a mortal sin. President Obama is no more calculating than anyone who has ever held office and certaining no more calculating then you probably are. As it says in the Bible (yes the only WORD I believe in) it says that every man shall be known by his fruit.

  • spidermean2

    For as long as the leak continues, this is worth repeating.I think the main reason why BP can’t plug the oil leak is because their so-called “scientists” are all evolutionists and therefore dumb. Why don’t these idiots try for once, my recommendation how to plug the leak.Insert a net inside the pipe and pour tons of gravel and sand. It would serve as a big cork. They can add other materials like plastic bags or clay soil and repeat the process 20 times.20 big corks inside the pipe. Im sure even superman can’t escape in it.There is reason to believe that even an airbag can fix it. It think it won’t cost them a hundred dollars to try it. There are lots of airbags on junkshops.

  • PSolus

    “Is there nothing, nothing at all tooI hope not.

  • slamming

    TJ: Okay…here we go. It’s also hard to RESPECT a president who bans those who aren’t 1000% behind HIS AGENDA at political rallies. Does THAT ring a bell? A president who KNOWS how serious a situation is but doesn’t even bother to have food and water airlifted to those suffering people. If food and water can be dropped in Afghanistan it surely could have been done in New Orleans!!

  • twmatthews

    Spidermean, you write such nonsense; so lacking in fact.Here’s just a sample: You said, “I bet, no atheist can pass an engineering course.” Of course this contradicts the real facts about science and engineering. The largest block of nonbelievers in the US are members of the National Academy of Sciences. Of those, about 7% believe in a personal god. And there are plenty of “real” engineers in the NAS.Your claim that evolution is false is backed up by childish logic which leads me to conclude you’re no engineer. The 12,000+ fossils accumulated over the last 100 years demonstrates a trend from ONLY primitive life to the complex range of life we see today. Only a fool ignores the evidence while sticking with the mythical writings in a book that claims the earth is flat and the center of the universe and created 6000 years ago.Talk about being dumb as a log….

  • areyousaying

    When people start an explanation with “To tell you the truth…..” it’s a big red flag they’re going to lie to you. The same was true in Colorado Springs, cradle of James Dobson’s and Ted Haggard’s “religious right.” When I did business there, I cringed when one of my new customers gave me their card with a fish symbol on it. There were a lot of realtors who used it to curry trust and favor with their clients. I cringed because my experience with them were late payments and dishonest dealings in resolving complaints or adjustments. My idea of someone who goes out of their way to advertise themselves as “Christian” is someone who uses the badge to take advantage of or exploit others. This is especially true of politicians.

  • qqbDEyZW

    Let’s see how Christians work in the US. We saw Gov. Sanford demand Clinton resign after an affair, but Sanford using the shield of Religion met with his soulmate on the taxpayers dime. He divorced his wife and again met with his soulmate in Flordia on the taxpayers dime. Jake Knott a true Christian used racial dirty words publicly about Haley/Obama and is proud of it with support of many from SC. Senator DeMint blocked the TSA appointment allowing two terrorist to try to bomb the US. DeMint using Religion as his shield paid an unemployed/vet/felony to be on the Democrat ticket so DeMint would slip in office again. Gov. McDonnell is positioning himself for 2012 Presidential election while the State fails deeper in debt, all while using the shield of Religion and the Confederate Holiday. Now we are to believe these people represent the teaching of God? Jesus saw how corrupt the Jewish Leaders had become remember. As President Obama said actions speak louder then words and sorry the actions of many Law Makers and Religious leaders is right out of the book of Satan.

  • sakeneko

    qqbDEyZW, Sanford didn’t divorce his wife. She divorced him. IMHO rightly.

  • rexreddy

    O.K. Everybody:So unless you are God you can’t take those rights away.Get rid of God and you can do whatever you like to the constitution.They are just trying chip away and destroy western civilization.It’s that simple.Religion? I will sum that up for you too.What you have in all scriptures of all faiths and all religions are the words of cavemen as they first learned to write.Whatever their ancestors witnessed was first deluded and distorted by word of mouth as stories are told over time. Then it was intentionally distorted to serve the will of those who sought power.On the up side, if you follow Mainstream Christianity or Judaism you have before you a road map for success, happiness and good will towards your fellow man.My views?Yes Mr. Silverman: People like you want to tear that down.

  • twmatthews

    rexreddy said, “The Constitution holds that certain inalienable rights are bestowed by God. So unless you are God you can’t take those rights away.The constitution never mentions God. Most of the references to God were added to money and the pledge during the 50’s.Now the idea that without God we will enter into chaos is not backed up by the facts. Looking at all western, developed countries; those like Sweden, Denmark and Norway are the least religious, boast the highest percentage of nonbelievers and enjoy the lowest crime rates in the world. That’s in stark contradiction to what you imply.Looking at this country, take the largest cities in the US with the highest crime rates. About 3/4 of them can be found in “red states” and the majority are in areas that would rightly be classified as in the bible belt.Now let’s take my situation in particular. I moved from a town in NJ with 45,000 people. In the 17 years I lived there the police had to investigate 1 murder. I moved to a beautiful town in NC with 12,000 people in 2004. We’ve had 6 murders here since 2004.Show me statistics that demonstrate Christians are more law abiding, less prone to violent crime than atheists. I’ve not seen any.

  • cosciousness

    Religious people believe Politicians should enforce laws that support basic moral principles. Politicians who want to pass laws denying religious morality are violating the church state barrier. Those who wish to encourage moral collapse should not be able to force religious people to abide by their beliefs.Politicians and lawyers who turn a blind to theft, prostitution and drug use are not technically violating the law but are in essence supporting the secular onslaught. Secularist Politicians have controlled inner city politics and the results should be obvious to all.

  • rexreddy

    twmatthews Reality Check !Detroit Michigan ?Declaration of independence:

  • andym108

    The fastest case I can remember of a would-be politician thinking on his feet came in a local election in Durham, NC about 40 years ago, when an agnostic lawyer was suddenly confronted at a public debate by a questioner who demanded to know “WHETHER YOU’VE ACCEPTED JESUS CHRIST AS YOUR PERSONAL LORD AND SAVIOR???”To this day, I still can’t believe that it only took a split second for him to fire back with, “YES, AND I FEEL SORRY FOR ANY MAN WHO HASN’T!!!”He didn’t win the election, but I think it’s safe to say that he might have fallen into the category of “Political Christian”!

  • spidermean2

    twmatthews wrote “The 12,000+ fossils accumulated over the last 100 years demonstrates a trend from ONLY primitive life to the complex range of life we see today.”As I always say, evolutionists are truly idiots. Science does not rely on trends but on repeatable occurence that can be demonstrated at a lab. Fossils are like columns and beams of a house. They are so incomplete that only idiots can make stories out of it. You need to have the blueprint of the house or the DNA of those fossils to see the whole picture. In the case of DNA, one should understand how to read the codes. And by the way, nobody undertands it, idiot.Why are atheists so DUMB? Can’t you guys fix your brains?No true engineer can be an evolutionist.

  • spidermean2

    I think the main reason why BP can’t plug the oil leak is because their so-called “scientists” are all evolutionists and therefore dumb. Why don’t these idiots try for once, my recommendation how to plug the leak.Insert a net inside the pipe and pour tons of gravel and sand. It would serve as a big cork. They can add other materials like plastic bags or clay soil and repeat the process 20 times.20 big corks inside the pipe. Im sure even superman can’t escape in it.

  • paulhume

    “The Constitution holds that certain inalienable rights are bestowed by God.Rex – You are quoting the Declaration of Independence, not the Constitution.The same man who wrote the words you are quoting also wrote “But it does me no injury for my neighbor to say there are twenty gods or no God. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg. “-Thomas Jefferson, Notes on Virginia, 1782The Constitution, as another poster already noted, does not refer to Deity.

  • massmedia77

    atheist = the same folks who will scream, “Oh God”, “Please God NO!” or “God Help me!” if they’re about to die. We all become believers in our final moments.

  • schnauzer2

    Posted by: spidermean2 “As I always say, evolutionists are truly idiots. Science does not rely on trends but on repeatable occurence that can be demonstrated at a lab.”Yes you alwasy say that, but just like me always saying the moon is made of cheese, neither is true.So where are your scientific, laboratory created proofs that your god exists?

  • Chops2

    Why are there different denominations when believers can supposedly just ask the author of the bible whcih is the correct doctrine? Surely if people did have a direct line then there would be no theological debate.The differing denominations only show, yet again, that they are man made.

  • rexreddy

    Hey paulhume There are references to Year of our Lord etc that displays the leanings of the writers

  • MarkDavidovich

    We Westerners (as well as most Moslems) think of one’s religion as unique to the exclusion of others. If one is a Christian one cannot also be a Moslem (and vice-versa). But many Asians seem to have a different perspective. Perhaps coming from her Sikh herritage Haley finds some aspectsof both Sikh and Christian religions appealing enough to describe herself as Sikh-Christian. Of course it’s also politically helpful. When one wants to be elected it’s best for one to be seen as at least sympathetic to the culture of one’s constituents. Ms Haley’s self identification as a Sikh-Christian suggests her identification with the culture of her prospective constituents. Mr. Silverman’s musings about calling himself a Christian atheist suggest something different, a pompous boasting of his self-perceived superiority over his prospective constituents.

  • racerdoc

    Hey SPIDYHere is an experiment for you from a STUPID athesist to an apparently more STUPID ChristianGO out and turn your fire hydrant or some other water spewing instrument up to FULL FORCE…. Then TRY to stick a net over it THEN TRY AS YOU MIGHT TO STICK ROCKS DOWN IT WHILE IT IS BLOWING FULL FORCE.You cannot do it because not only do you need to Get passed the initial force of the spewing geyser, you then have to be able to stick enough GRAVEL in there at exactly the right time to STOP the flow of the force.You have about a bazillion to one chance of being able to stop the flow with the method you describe.So I guess the STUPID CHRISTIANS are not better —of course by your reckoning – this is an act of GOD and he wanted to DESTROY our environment. So I guess you think GOD should clean it up as well???

  • sage6

    Where do you get your definitions, i.e.,Conservative Christians: Those who place belief above behavior, and think of this life as preparation for an afterlife. There are Christians who think of this life as preparation for an afterlife AND place behavior as a demonstration of belief.I suspect that there are as many who fit my definition as fit your conservative and liberal Christian definitions.

  • mihirmeghani

    Read Dr. Shukla’s post on the same broad subject