Generals come and go but religious repression of women remains

The front page news out of Afghanistan this week is, of course, the firing by President Obama of Gen. Stanley … Continued

The front page news out of Afghanistan this week is, of course, the firing by President Obama of Gen. Stanley McChrystal, who apparently missed the class at West Point where cadets were taught about civilian authority over the military. Regardless of who is in charge of U.S. forces in that country, the inside story remains the same: this is a society dominated by a toxic mixture of tribal thuggery and radical Islam, both of them based on repression of women. It is a society where women cannot sit in public parks in the capital city without being assaulted by men and must therefore plead for the right to lift their faces to the sun, in an all-female garden that could not exist without heavy steel gates and police protection. It is a society in which, whatever generals and how many troops we send, the Kabul Women’s Garden will undoubtedly be trashed within days of an inevitable U.S. withdrawal. You can be sure that no helicopters will arrive to rescue the women who have risked their lives for a patch of personal liberty. Like the Vietnamese left behind on the roof of the U.S. embassy in Saigon, they will be left to suffer for America’s delusions about its ability to transform a country far from our realistic sphere of influence.

The women’s garden, thought by some to date from the 16th century, is being restored with a grant from the U.S. Agency for International Development and CARE International. Karima Salik, the garden’s manager, described the space as it was during her girlhood in the 1970s in an interview with New York Times correspondent Rod Nordland, “The trees covered everything. There was laughter and chatter and music.” She was recalling the late part of the decade–the worst of times in one respect, because the country was occupied by the Soviets in 1978. But this era was in some respects one of the best of times for Afghan women, many of whom were allowed access to education for the first time. When the Soviets were driven out by the Taliban, the garden was trashed, along with the right of women to go to school and work outside their homes.

The unutterably sad part of this story is how hard women must fight to enjoy–within such limited confines–the fundamental human right to walk freely in the open air. Behind the garden walls, women can shed their burqas and exercise. They can also manage their own small businesses, providing modest services from hair care to sewing. In the bazaars of Kabul, women are not permitted to own businesses. The garden also serves as a temporary refuge for battered women, who have virtually no recourse under Islamic law as it is interpreted by local mullahs and warlords. None of these “privileges” for women sit well with a neighboring mullah, who organizes demonstrations designed to destroy the peace of the refuge. “I don’t care what the hell they do,” the mullah told the Times correspondent. “But inside the garden they get all dressed up and do their makeup and have other intentions.”

A former warlord has taken over an adjacent site and is putting up a 13-story building so that men can leer and jeer at the women in the garden. Of course there are much, much worse things happening to women than being deprived of the right to exercise without attracting prurient attention. Thirteen-year-olds are being flogged for fleeing arranged marriages–something the world knows because the Afghanistan Human Rights Commission (a non-governmental organization) released a smuggled video of the event. How brave all of these women are to fight for a small amount of freedom against such overwhelming odds, and their hopes will certainly be destroyed if and when the country returns to the total control of fanatical, violent men.

And it is really a matter of “when,” not “if.” I think about these women when I think about the inevitable departure of American troops from this country–on whatever timetable and whoever is president at the time. Our so-called ally, President Hamid Karzai, knows which way the wind is blowing. That is why he has already negotiated away women’s rights–even the right to leave the house without a husband’s permission– in areas controlled by the Taliban and other local warlords.

I don’t think Americans can change any of this. If the Soviets, with much shorter supply lines could not succeed in their objectives, there is no way that the United States will be able to do so. When Salik, with the help of international aid and the Afghan Ministry of Women’s Affairs, started trying to revive the garden three years ago, the women hauled away 45 truckloads of trash because the Taliban had turned the refuge into a public dump. That is how radical Islam regards women. People must first possess the will to be free before outside liberators can help them, and those who do possess that will in Afghanistan–including a minority of both women and men–are and always have been outnumbered by the forces of unreason and violence. It is all a sickening spectacle, and there is nothing more sickening than the spectacle of our government making promises, both implicit and explicit, that it cannot possibly keep. The magazine Rolling Stone got a foolish, arrogant general fired–years after he should have been fired for organizing the cover-up in the Pat Tillman affair. Quite a coup for our free press. Too bad that won’t help little girls fleeing rapists and women who want to smell flowers. I wish there were an organization collecting money to airlift every woman who wants to leave Afghanistan and pay for her schooling so that she could begin a new life.

Susan Jacoby
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  • WmarkW

    I’m glad Susan admits the US can’t do anything about this, instead of insisting it’s our permanent obligation. In one of his debates on YouTube, Chris Hitchens states that the route out of poverty is to harness the talents of women. Maybe so, but there’s a lot of chicken-and-egg about whether gender equality or economic sophistication comes first. It’s kind of hard to imagine women’s equality in an economy that’s 80% non-mechanized food production and the military. That’s where you find things like female genital mutilation and rapes by military men of their country’s own women (common in Africa). Even in truly developing countries like India and China, the women in the rural areas sex-select their fetuses.Whenever someone complains about how oppressive Western society is and the need to think multi-culturally, I always want to ask if they want to start by importing Third World gender attitudes.

  • Jihadist

    “I don’t care what the hell they do,” the mullah told the Times correspondent. “But inside the garden they get all dressed up and do their makeup and have other intentions.” *******************************************This contradictory “reasoning” and “rationale” says it all as to how whacked these extremists are. The Aghan extremists say they valued women as “gems”, want to “protect” them and their honour and dignity, and then piled garbage in their “space” to bully, intimidate and demean them.These men, by their own “code” which they enforced, should be given a thousand lashes and then stoned to death for incurring into the harem, the space for women, which they themselves imposed, and then transgress and pollute. This is a rape of women’s space and dignity by their own code.

  • Secular

    I was opposed to us going into both Afghanistan, as well as Iraq. Both are futile attempts at accomplishing any and all the stated goals to camouflage, the previous goal by a newer goal. Whatever, little and tangible we have achieved in both our adventures could have been done for a few hundred million dollars. The misery that was caused to ourselves, in terms of loss of life of our soldiers, the $1,000,000,000,000 and counting, trespassing our own cherished ideals, etc, etc on our side. Additionally, the countless deaths in those wretched lands an dthe sharp regression into two countries due to the resurgence of Islam there. This was wretched waste of resource all over. For this Dubya is the main culprit.

  • rentianxiang

    Submission to an irrational belief system will undoubtedly lead to irrational behavior. The oppression of the women in Afghanistan is because of a particular and fundamental interpretation of the Quran and the Hadith, i.e. Islam. Basically, more Islamic ends up meaning more oppressive, although still oppressive to a certain degree. Less Islamic ends up being less oppressive. In short, what we need is not moderate Islam, but the abandonment of Islam. From there, we can work down the list of highly dangerous belief systems, such as Christianity.

  • Jihadist

    :)Abandonment of religion eh. My right to believe and your right to try. Incidentally, the Universal Declaration on Human Rights do state the right of any person not to be persecuted due to religion or belief. Hope secularists or atheists won’t persecute or torture believers just for believing, even if they prayed in private. Once upon a time, many moons ago, Ms. Susan Jacoby suggested that I not spent so much time on the Internet and to read a book instead. I remain clueless as to whether she want to spare all here from reading my idiotic posts, or to spare me from reading moronic posts here. Or both. So, let’s get idiotic and stupid as always. Since looking in again in these threads, there were talks of shipping Israelis back to Germany and Poland. Elsewhere, I read of proposals to ship off Palestinians to the Arab World. Presmubably because they are Arabs, and because the Arab desert is spacious and underpopulated. And now there is talk of airlifting women out of Afghanistan. Who would take them? And their children too? Or Afghan men also bearing the brunt of the extremists’ actions in Afghanistan? That would be more than 60% of the popululation of Afghanistan who wants out. Not counting the hundreds of thousands of Afghan refugees along the borders of Afghanistan and Pakistan and in those countries too. Misogynists are misogynists. Regardless if they call themself secular, irreligious or believers. And they are very adept at using their own rationale on ethics and values in their interpretations of secular laws (as in the case of abortion) or the Holy texts for change and enforcement of what they wanted as law. This certainly “put women in their place”. In taking women’s rights “out”, even on matters relating to their own space and bodies in ways either crude, as in the case of the Afghan extremists, or with finesse on ethics and values, as in the case of the pro-lifers, women are demeaned as persons and subsumed on their rights. Oh, women free from extremist Aghan mullahs can and do demean themself and their gender by their words and actions too. As in the case of Sarah Palin. It is is a God given right to be so and such, and protected by the law of the land.

  • cianwn

    This situation is heartbreaking and made even worse by the fact that there’s little the US presence in Afghanistan can do to change such an entrenched and backward attitude toward women.One bit of research suggests that modernizing the country’s infrastructure and widening the amount of technology available to rural families can help. In SuperFreaknonimcs, Levitt and Dubner discuss studies showing that the introduction of cable television into rural areas in India helped change attitudes toward women’s rights and women’s expectations for themselves and their lives.I also wonder where the outrage is about the treatment of women in this part of the world. There should be an outcry on the part of women in Western nations for their oppressed and suffering counterparts in the Islamic world, India, and China.

  • farnaz_mansouri2

    Given what we have re-created, we owe the people of Afghanistan. Years ago, as a teaching assistant, I had in a class, a bunch of young Afghan refugee students, women, who were cousins and sisters. I have yet to encounter a more serious and brilliant bunch in a classroom. They had been granted political asylum, since the the two fathers involved, leading liberal intellectuals, had been imprisoned. It was from them that I learned about the Taliban and the plight of Afghan women. They should me pictures, brought in articles, provided me with relevant suicide statistics.When we create refugees, and we do, we owe them, whether they are from South America, Vietnam, Iraq, or Afghanistan. Or Iran.There has to be a way to bring those we have let down wherever they wish to be. If they wish to remain, of course, so be it. If they wish to come here, so be it.I did not want this. I did not want the needless war in Iraq. I did not wish to see us abandon Afghanistan, which we had all but rid of the Taliban, to bring chaos and bloodshed to the peoples of Iraq.But we did this. It was done in my name. Long after American newspapers lose interest in Afghanistan, the people of that country will suffer. Whatever we can do to ease the suffering, whatever they ask of us–these things we must do.

  • Susan_Jacoby

    I find myself extremely annoyed by comments like the one asking “where is the outrage?” of western women at the treatment of women in much of the Islamic world. What did you think this column was about? Who do you think is behind the financing of projects like the Kabul Women’s Garden, and many other efforts to help women who are trying to help themselves, from Congo to Pakistan? Women, that’s who. Feminism itself, from the 1970s on, made the recognition of women’s rights as human rights a major cause. If you don’t think there is any outrage on the part of women about these issues, you obviously don’t read much written by women.

  • farnaz_mansouri2

    Susan asks, “Where’s the outrage?”That is a very good question, but it must be an outrage at the land in which we live.It is this land that brought Zia to Pakistan, Zia who invited in the Saudis to open Wahabi Madrassas throughout Pakistan and turn it from a secular nation into what it is now.It was in these Saudi funded Wahabi Madrassahs that the Taliban were and are educated and trained.In support of the Taliban, strange bedfellows united: the US, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, and Iran.The US donated millions (reported by WaPo) for Taliban “textbooks” the content of which you can imagine. These “textbooks” were published by an American university press.And speaking of oppressed women and the funding of terrorists who arrive here, what of our Bffs, the Saudis, they who run Saudi Bank, Manhattan, which, according to the Times, channels money to terrorist organization?WHERE is the outrage?

  • Jihadist

    WHERE is the outrage? – Farnaz*******************************************I personally, have a bit of outrage fatigue in the ceaseless, relentless state of conflict and war in Afghanistan since the Soviet invasion of that country in late 1979. Since I was born, Afghanistan is in such state and no end in sight as yet. How can a society remain human and civil in three decades of such state? You do know well know that in conflicts and wars, women and children are the prime victims. The degradation of women by rapes, by murders, by abuses of their rights by armed and warring brothers in arm are too well documented.

  • WmarkW

    Susan asks, “Where’s the outrage?”Why just our own land?We live in a globalized village. Why aren’t women boycotting clothing made in countries where gender-selective aborticide is common?Why don’t women refuse to fuel their minivans at stations that get most of the supplies from the Middle East? There may be outrage, but there isn’t action that inflicts any self-denial.

  • farnaz_mansouri2

    WMARKW:Re: Female feticideWomen worldwide do protest female feticide, as to many men. That the American newspapers do not focus on the issue–that is another story.Whether we should purchase goods made by foreign exploited workers–that is a worthy topic, but extends beyond female workers.

  • WmarkW

    It’s not just boycotting goods to protest working conditions. Selling clothing to Western women is a mainstay of many Asian economies. Refusing to buy them would get their attention on the panoply of women’s issues a lot more than writing letters to the editor of American newspapers would.

  • farnaz_mansouri2

    Jihadist:Re: “Outrage fatigue”I hear you. However, remember that women made up 60 per cent of the professionals in Afghanistan through the 1980s. Although I cannot justify the wanton bombing, endless killing in that country, the fact is that a great deal of progress for women was made in a very short time, following our temporary victory over the Taliban.If we had stayed and seen the task through, instead of moving on to Iraq, who knows what would have happened?Of course, we cannot be too optimistic. As numerous army officers and others have said, we have long avoided a coherent foreign policy. We cannot continue our relation with the Saudis, watch them fund Taliban-training Madrassas, and expect good things for the region.For me, the bottom line is we have created misery just as we have in South America, Vietnam, Iraq, Iran. We owe something to the people in whose countries we “intervene.”Frankly, I could do with a lot less virtual ranting, myself. I have often wondered why OnFaith cannot work to bring people together.

  • farnaz_mansouri2

    It’s not just boycotting goods to protest working conditions. Selling clothing to Western women is a mainstay of many Asian economies. Refusing to buy them would get their attention on the panoply of women’s issues a lot more than writing letters to the editor of American newspapers would.

  • cianwn

    Responding to Susan’s expression of annoyance here.It wasn’t directed it you. I know you’re working to raise consciousness about this issue. My personal comments about outrage are toward people who are already outspoken advocates of feminism, like Gloria Allred, but who seem to want to focus on domestic issues. My comments were directed at an increasingly self-absorbed American public that can’t be bothered to vote, to get informed, or to tear itself away from entertainment, much less to imagine what life is like for someone on the other side of the world.It’s good to see the efforts mentioned underway, and I share your frustration that informed Westerners of goodwill can do little to improve the lot of Afghan women, among others.

  • t1123

    Islam is a very violent religion and its control of women is at its very core. I know we all hear that it is a religion of peace, but, that is total rubbish. Most Muslim men are nothing more than stupid thugs. These are guys who want to kill someone who writes anything negative about Islam or remotely questions Allah. Nothing will change for these women. It will get worse. These people breed like rabbits; about one billion of them already on the planet and the number is growing. This violence isn’t just limited to Afganistan. The repression of women and girls is evident right here in the DC area. Look around. Anyway, when has the U.S. ever gone to bat for women?

  • DwightCollins

    saying that the USA would protect afghan women would put everyone in the middle east against us for intruding in their culture…

  • andrew23boyle

    What happened to women under the Taliban was a disgusting, ungoing crime against liberty and humanity. If anything unquestionably “good” has come of the invasion, it is the fact that for the first time in a decade women and girls in many areas of Afghanistan can experience freedom and even recieve some education.That said, there are people, men and women, suffering under the whip of tyrants all over the world. Now matter how much we may wish to share with all humanity the liberty we enjoy, we can’t save them all. Our policy MUST be determined by OUR interests and I don’t see any vital interests at stake in Afghanistan. If we leave, it will likely revert to status quo ante bellum; hardly an ideal outcome but it will not imperil the Republic’s interests.Of course, the President knows a lot that I don’t so maybe there is a compelling reason to stay that is classifed or otherwise not apparent to me. I have said it before and I will say it again: I will support the President if he chooses to stay and fight, as long as he defines a goal and we actually FIGHT to win. I will support the President if he decides to withdraw, provided that he does so ASAP and not at some arbitrary date in the future. If we’re not going to fight to “win”, the worst thing we can do is stick around and spill more blood simply to pack up and leave in any case. THAT I will NOT support.If we do end up leaving Afghanistan to its own devices, we can at least hope that the brief breath of freedom that our protection allowed the women of Afghanistan will implant in them a love of liberty and a self-respect that will allow them to eventually undermine and destroy the theocrats who have enslaved them in the past and would do so again!

  • shewholives

    Where is the outrage? Come on, Susan. You know as well as the rest of the world that Islam is a violent, misogynist religion and the scourge of the world. I stopped giving money to the National Organization for Women, for just this reason. In typical left wing fashion, they don’t want to offend the delicate sensibilities of Muslims so they ignore the violence against Muslim women.

  • mono1

    test

  • kay_sieverding

    We should send a legal peace corps to Afghanistan. They should help women sue those who violate their rights. The juries are more likely to award damages than to imprison and the men are more likely to stop the abusive behavior if it costs them money.

  • mono1

    —————————————

  • mono1

    in order to change the theology and ideology of muslim women you need to come with a better theology and ideology,it doesnot need trillion $$$$ to figure the above outhere is the answer,for so god love the world he nailed his only son on the cross and his only daugter liberalsecularism on the other side of the cross for the sake and sin of mankind.survival of the species is not only for the fittest but for the truthest as well.

  • Utahreb

    By fighting for and supporting the corrupt government of Karzai and his group in Afghanistan, we are perpetuating the abuse of women. You might have one “garden” for women, but how many will you save?Heck – we can’t even protect a lot of women in our own country – no matter how many restraint orders are given to them. How do you think we are going to change a country with so many, many years of corruption and violations of womens rights?Take the problem of women in France, Italy and even the U.S. who wear burqas, covering all but their eyes. If these women truly wanted to assimilate into the country’s culture, why in the world would they want to wear these garments? They have the freedom in other countries to wear what they wish, and evidently many wish to remain in the culture of their former countries. Women have to take some responsibilty for their own freedoms and hanging onto garments such as the burqa do nothing to promote women’s rights.

  • daniel12

    The U.S. military should not even be spoken of as a military. Military history demonstrates that the U.S. at present is crippled, under delusions of “counterinsurgency”, when if it really were a military it would crush the Taliban, meaning not worry about collateral damage. In such a situation as at present exists, the hope for women in such a country is to be, as you suggested, Jacoby, airlifted out of the country. In fact that could be the most brilliant plan of all: Take their women. Offer them a new life. See how long the Taliban lasts. At the least it will flush them out, bring them out in the open. Unless they want their women just taken from in front of them. If the U.S. is not going to think creatively or really fight, kill people, then it should not only just get out but stop pretending that it is a military. Things have come to such a pass that the only hope for the U.S. now can be summed up in one name, Petreaus, just like in ancient times an army would rally around a particular general. But unlike in ancient times there is nothing for Petreaus to suggest. He cannot act in honorable and time-honored military fashion. He cannot organize the troops and just march and crush, march and crush. All he can do is talk “counterinsurgency”. Good luck. Good luck.

  • ad9inaz

    As long as men over 15 are alive in Afghanistan, the Taliban will be fighting and Afghan women will be treated as they are now.The solution to both problems is to kill every male over 15 in both Afghanistan and Western Pakistan.If we are not going to try that solution, we should pack up and get out.

  • drzimmern1

    Perhaps we should consider allowing the Afghans to live without our interference. One wonders why we are spending billions of taxpayer dollars in a sandy desert spot when we have so much left undone at home.

  • farnaz_mansouri2

    We bombed Afghanistan, killed nearly one million people in order to capture Osama Bin Laden and neutralize the Taliban threat. As the possible consequence of successful capture, along with Pakistan’s refusal to cooperate, became clear, we shifted our primary focus to democracy building, which included the liberation of enslaved women.WMDs in Iraq, Osama in AfghanistanGulf on Tonkin, August 4, 1964–the attack that never occurred–and Tonkin ResolutionInvasions, 4,000,000 Vietnamese with Dioxin poisoning TODAY, millions dead, American vets maimed for life. And Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan, now? And the winner is?

  • fare777

    It is difficult to protect American women from the tribal thugs of the Christian Right and the perverts of the Catholic Church. Its a reach to far to think we can protect anyone anywhere.

  • ShorinBJ

    “Why don’t women refuse to fuel their minivans at stations that get most of the supplies from the Middle East?”__________________________________________Oil is fungible. Every gallon of fuel you buy adds to the TOTAL number of gallons consumed. When that total exceeds domestic production, the remainder is imported.It does not matter even a little bit which station you get your gas from. What matters is that we consume more than we produce, more than we and our real allies produce even, and the excess is purchased from places like Saudi Arabia.

  • roger27

    Ha ha. We sure taught the Russkies a thing or two. Charlie Wilson had a great time, and he chased out the Commies and helped Peshtun Wallah and Kabul Looie take over. Great Charlie. Hope you’re having a great time down there in Hell – because the women of Afghanistan won’t forget. Benazir Bhutto told us we were creating a monster.

  • moebius22

    If this country waited for other countries to bring us freedom, we would still be a British colony.The reason we are still in this mess, is becuase consecutive Administrations are more worried about spreading freedom and rights to others, rather than looking out for our countries interests…they should thrown some money at some powerful tribes in exchange for fighting the Taliban allowing us to leave for the most part.

  • Itzajob

    Ms. Jacoby is absolutely right. The likely fate of Afghan women is horrible to contemplate, but it is beyond our power to save them.We have lost the war in Afghanistan. We need to face this sorry fact and get out now.

  • abrahamhab1

    Until those women in Afghanistan stand up for their rights and be willing to sacrifice for it, they would never get their freedom. If we force it on them none can guarantee it will stay with them after we leave.

  • hurleyvision

    What happens to Muslim women is terrible but hearing Barach Hussein Obama extol the virtues of Islam is worse. As Obama appoints Muslims to high levels in Homeland Security and other security positions, will the Dumbocrats ever get a clue?

  • ShawnDavis1

    The question is “Can we protect American men from Afghan woman?” Those fellas over there are flippin hideous. I wouldn’t be surprised if they all tried to marry off every one of our troops.

  • farnaz_mansouri2

    Someone asked why we should protect Afghan women.Let us recall that our publicized goals in Afghanistan were to rid it of Algaeda and the Taliban, very closely related, and, of course, to get Osama Bin Laden.It became as clear to Bush as it had been to Clinton that killing Osama would not be a good idea; hence, one goal bit the dust.We did not neutralize the Talibsn and, contrary to popular reports, we did not drive Al Qaeda from Afghanistan. The Haqqani network, lately friends of Karzai, who, for some odd reason, doubts our ability and commitment, is located in Alqaeda is now to be found throughout Asia and the MIddle East, as well as in Afghanistan and Pakistan. There is a branch in Saudi Arabia, which funds the Pakistani Madrassas that train the Taliban and Al Qaeda. Pakistan, like Afghanistan, has been the beneficiary of American aid. It was this country that installed Zia, who brought the Saudis in to fund the Madrassas that continue to train Al Qaeda related groups throughout Pakistan.If we are to exit Afghanistan having given it nothing but death and destruction beforeI, personally, would also recommend the building of bomb shelters, particularly in heavily populated areas.

  • shaheed-yahudi

    F I F A – W O R L D – C U P – 2 0 1 0:

  • farnaz_mansouri2

    Sorry for the typos in the preceding post.On an unrelated subject, I would like to point out that the temperature was supposed to go down here in New York City. However, chez moi, where the air conditioner broke down, 90 is not considered cool.In the midst of silent whining, I noticed an email from a Pakistani friend, which surprised me, since it is about five o’clock in the morning where she lives. However, as it turned out, she merely wished to inform me that the temperature in her part of the world was 113 and that all of the air conditioners in the house had crashed. The entire extended family had been wondering around in a daze.Those who knew the lyrics were calmed. Translations were offered to those who did not speak English.Music is probably not a solution to everything, she did point out, and this is true. Still, it is one thing that is acceptable, and even pleasurable, to most believers and atheists.

  • shaheed-yahudi

    oooopppssaa

  • Jihadist

    The treatment of women is a good reason to fear and loath Muslims. Posted by: edbyronadams*******************************************:)Thanks for sharing that while you live in the world’s most advanced, powerful and freest nation on earth, yet you live in fear and loathing of mostly uneducated, semi-educated, Muslims living barely above poverty line in third world countries like me. Good luck to you and the other Muslim paranoids in this thread who live in fear and loathing even of Muslim women wearing the hijab on a bus. Cheers

  • Jihadist

    And the winner is?******************************************Arms manufacturers and defence contractors. Including those hired by Homeland Security.

  • farnaz_mansouri2

    Arms manufacturers and defence contractors. Including those hired by Homeland Security.Posted by: JihadistAnd they’ll be “winning” more….

  • farnaz_mansouri2

    KnowThe true nature of your Beloved.In His loving eyes your every thought,Word and movement is always-Always Beautiful.–Hafiz

  • Jihadist

    America, America I too love jeans and jazz and Treasure Island Is that enough for the Phantom pilot to turn me back to the stone age? America: We are not hostages, America the gods of bulls America, we are the dead.

  • farnaz_mansouri2

    Back atcha, Jihadist, but I am still in a classic mode.The mullah never knows the pangs of grief,–Iqbal

  • farnaz_mansouri2

    Song of Solomon 3 1 All night long on my bed 2 I will get up now and go about the city, 3 The watchmen found me 4 Scarcely had I passed them 5 Daughters of Jerusalem, I charge you 6 Who is this coming up from the desert 7 Look! It is Solomon’s carriage, 8 all of them wearing the sword, 9 King Solomon made for himself the carriage; 10 Its posts he made of silver, 11 Come out, you daughters of Zion,

  • farnaz_mansouri2

    With My BelovedWith my Beloved I alone have been,–Rabia

  • farnaz_mansouri2

    Wildpeace

  • farnaz_mansouri2

    The Veilby Bahar Sayed ElhanGrisly veil dare not censure me from sightNo blackness, however dense,Isn’t your flawed morality, Believer,Let no warped preacher, advocate,I see no fairness in such wisdom:Conjuror of morality!Note: Bahar is a well-known Afghan poet. She lives in California now.

  • farnaz_mansouri2

    If the president decides we’re going to leave Afghanistan in disarray, then we can, at least, leave it with something else. But we probably should start now. If we’re not going to guarantee all who wish to leave safe passage and another place to live, we can at least arm them, beginning with the women.Best to start now, I would think. This isn’t as radical as it sounds. Many, many men in Afghanistan are armed. And women are a quick study, excellent marksmen.

  • daniel12

    Maybe Jacoby can write a piece about those tyrants the World Cup referees. If ever there were an example of men unable to say they are wrong it has to be those referees. Those petty tyrants are ruining the Cup. First, and just today, England gets robbed of a clear goal (although hard to imagine they could ever have won against Germany) then Argentina gets a goal which should not have been one (Argentina was offside). Those referees are like God, and apparently as arbitrary. And no technology by which replay can be addressed is allowed to be used–so every fan can see the clear errors but the referees’ decisions still hold. Fortunately a lot of superb play still recommends the Cup. But it sure would help if women worldwide rally against the World Cup refs. Maybe the refs wives can be talked into denying them sex or something. Women’s rights can only be helped by protesting this clear example of men exercising the most petty of tyranical impulses.

  • shaheed-yahudi

    .

  • shaheed-yahudi

    Y E S — W E — C A N!

  • halozcel1

    Dear Jihadist,Good Day.It’s very nice to speak with you.You say *Muslims(Submission Followers) living barely above poverty line in third world countries like me*Have a great day.

  • PSolus

    “Consequently, it is essential that government recognizes there is a God, there is just one God, and that He is the right God.”That is just your ignorant belief, which you have mistaken for fact.”Fortunately for America, the Founding Fathers did that. They recognized the God of our Judeo-Christian heritage…”That also is your ignorant belief, which you have mistaken for fact.”Only the True God has given man the Natural Moral Law that protects the natural rights of man. These rights are given by God not man, that man, a social being, may exist in harmony with society, and that man may obtain the end for which he was created.”Again: Ignorant belief that you have mistaken for fact.”Without God there are no basis for man’s inalienable rights; distort His Moral Law and we frustrate the purpose for man’s creation and we devalue humanity.”Once again: Ignorant belief, mistaken by you, for fact.The rest is the ignorant beliefs of your dead pappy, that both of you have mistaken for fact.

  • leshutch2001

    A good measure of how backward a culture or religion is can be seen in its treatment of women.

  • leshutch2001

    A good measure of how backward a culture or religion is can be seen in its treatment of women.

  • Jihadist

    :)The kind of country I live in and all our own “doing”? We have a Malaysian version of Malaysian Idol and now this. It should make “Edbyronadams” and “Halozcel” vomit, but for a different reason…. ******************************************Extracted from AP: A Malaysian TV show has launched a Young Imam (Imam Muda) contest in which male contestants chant passages from the Koran to prove they are the best imam.The show is in its third week and is fast becoming popular in the Muslim-majority country. The contestants’ fate is in the hands of Hasan Mahmoud, the former grand mufti of Malaysia’s national mosque.Instead of a record deal, the winner from the 10 contestants aged between 19 and 27 will get a post as an imam at a mosque in Kuala Lumpur, a Haj pilgrimage to Mecca and a scholarship to Madinah University in Saudi Arabia.Like their counterparts in the West, the Young Imam competitors are becoming idols to teenage viewers. The show’s Facebook page has more than 25,000 fans, including prospective mothers-in-law looking to marry off their daughters.Each week the aspiring imams are given clerical tasks to complete.The first challenge was to bathe and bury a body that had lain unclaimed in a morgue for a month. The man had died of an AIDS-related condition. They washed the body, wrapped it in white cotton, offered prayers and buried it, with some contestants weeping at the grave.Izelan Basar, the channel manager of Astro Oasis, which screens the show, said: ”Seeing and handling a dead body is the most difficult ritual they could face as an imam. The 10 boys were brilliant, but the crew was not so good. The producer fainted and several crew members vomited.”

  • Jihadist

    Living in a world of their own making. Iraq was an attempt, at great cost, to provide them with a better way of organizing themselves. Alas, Arab/Muslim countries have yet to prove themselves fertile ground for participatory government.Posted by: edbyronadams *******************************************- Obviously, what is happening in Asia, is a world of “our own making” and we are still all not “fertile ground” for “participatory goverment”..including in Burma/Myanmar, Vietnam, North Korea. And Thailand constantly having coups and revising it Constitution to finetune its notions of “participatory government.- As for Afghanistan and Iraq, the world they are living in is also “made” by “well-intentioned” and “well meaning” external interventions.

  • WmarkW

    Jihadist, how many living former heads of state are there in the Muslim world? I know I’ve heard that Lebanon in the only (Muslim) nation with one on the Arab Peninsula. Iran and Turkey have a few. Any others?In a participatory government, Presidents leave office peacefully and die of natural causes as a free citizen.

  • Jihadist

    Maybe Jacoby can write a piece about those tyrants the World Cup referees. If ever there were an example of men unable to say they are wrong it has to be those referees. Those petty tyrants are ruining the Cup. Posted by: daniel12 *******************************************Then, again, Ms Jacoby can write about global football – Footballism as the common religion of all save for a few mavericks, renegades, unbelieving, disbelieving states and people like China and Chinese, Russia and Russians, the US and Americans. “American football” is a sacrilege and a deviation from and syncretisation of rugby and football. The fundamentalists of Footballism would not accept that. Every four years, all eyes and focus of Fotballism’s adherents are on the moving Mecca of hopes and prayers for the Holy Goal to be delivered by the Hand of God, the Foot of God, the Head of God as offerings by the High Priests of Footbalism, of which Kaka and Messi are the current greatest demi-gods and worshiped the world over. And Vuvuzela, the Horns of God, blares as the demi-gods sough the Holy Goal and all yell the Holy Words once that rite is attained:And the semi-devils called Referees are cursed by Footbalism’s adherents as the Scourge of God for impeding the High Priests of Footbalism and true believers from their hopes of getting the Holy Goal. And that other gathering of the vice-regents of God here on earth called G 20 playing God to us all received nary any attention from the true believers of Footbalism.

  • daniel12

    Football (soccer) as global religion Jihadist? A sport with rules no one is forced to play and which allows for infinite creativity within the rules? A sport which is cross cultural a religion? What next, similar phenomena like food and music religious? And as if we would listen seriously to someone with the utter lack of taste and sensitivity to go by the name Jihadist…

  • dangeroustalk

    Shortly after the 9/11 terrorist attacks, President George W. Bush claimed that America would be fighting a “crusade” against terrorism. The implication was that this is a religious war. Nearly a decade later, this continues to be a religious war. As long as people are convinced that God is on their side and that when they die they will go to eternal paradise we will continue to be at war with someone for something. This mentality effectively makes all wars religious wars. You can read the rest of my response to this topic:I will be responding to every issue posted in the ‘On Faith’ section. If you would like to be notified when my new response is up, please subscribe.